Teachers get it handy!

Started by wherefromreferee?, June 20, 2008, 08:49:07 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

ONeill

Haha!

Walk away Brannigan.....walk away....
I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

Owen Brannigan

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 17, 2017, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 17, 2017, 09:10:28 AM
Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.


Owen Brannigan

#1412
Quote from: ONeill on June 17, 2017, 11:31:04 AM
Haha!

Walk away Brannigan.....walk away....

Walking now. Just shaking my head.

Hardy

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 17, 2017, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 17, 2017, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 17, 2017, 09:10:28 AM
Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.



Brilliant! Alistair Campbell, Steve Bannon, P.J. Mara - eat your hearts out.

Owen Brannigan

No doubt Gaffer will claim I have made it up.   :)

Owen Brannigan


Owen Brannigan

According to reports it will take £1000 per teacher to put them through the new qualification to allow them to drive a minibus.  Time to flog the minibus and hire in transport.  According to site below, any one who got their test 20 years ago should have the D1 qualification.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/driving-minibus

Owen Brannigan

#1417
Quote from: hardstation on June 21, 2017, 06:40:39 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 21, 2017, 05:45:34 PM
According to reports it will take £1000 per teacher to put them through the new qualification to allow them to drive a minibus.  Time to flog the minibus and hire in transport.  According to site below, any one who got their test 20 years ago should have the D1 qualification.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/driving-minibus
Having a D1 on your licence (which everyone automatically got when they passed their car test 20 years ago) isn't enough seemingly. You must have the D1 by test and the driver qualification card to prove so.
It's a bit strange as it appears that anyone can drive a minibus as a volunteer, for a GAA club for example but not for an institution in which you are employed. Perhaps some decent souls in the community could 'volunteer' to drive their local school's minibus in an act of kindness.

Is this change as a result of lobbying by the transport hire business? The previous interpretation of the information on the DVA site is that driving for a non-commercial organisation, i.e. a school, is allowed on a D1 licence and only commercial work requires additional certification.

This question is highlighted by the DVA being unavailable for comment when they had already been in contact with the EA to give its interpretation of its own ruling.

From DVA:

Driving licences issued before 1 January 1997

If you passed your car driving test before 1 January 1997, you may have entitlement to drive minibuses on a voluntary basis (limited to social purposes on behalf of a non-commercial body), provided your licence hasn't been medically restricted. This entitlement, category D1 with restriction code 79 (nfhr) is displayed on your licence. It is valid throughout the United Kingdom.

'nfhr' stands for 'not for hire or reward' which  means that you cannot accept any payment, either cash or in kind, made by or on behalf of the passengers that gives them the right to be carried in the vehicle.


Licences without minibus entitlement

If your driving licence does not indicate that you are allowed to drive minibuses, you may be permitted to drive a minibus within the United Kingdom on behalf of a non-commercial organisation, if you meet all the following conditions:

you have a full car licence
you have held that licence for at least two years on aggregate
your are aged over 21 years
you receive no payment or consideration other than out of pocket expenses
you are driving on a voluntary basis
you are driving for social purposes


The only possibility is that in court, restriction code 79 (nfhr) could interpret the 'not for hire or reward' as not allowing an employee to drive as they are being paid to do so, even though it more likely referred to being able to drive a minibus in a scenario where the driver was a commercial entity and was employed by a business charging for hire.

On the other hand, is someone within the legal department of the EA bringing this new interpretation forward for fear of litigation against one of its schools as the EA is a self insuring organisation, i.e. it does not buy commercial insurance in many instances and is prepared to pay out against any claim against it proven in court?

manfromdelmonte


Owen Brannigan


theticklemister


Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 17, 2017, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 17, 2017, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 17, 2017, 09:10:28 AM
Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

manfromdelmonte

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 06:40:44 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 17, 2017, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 17, 2017, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 17, 2017, 09:10:28 AM
Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.
if its so great, then become a teacher.

I wouldn't encourage new teachers into the job in the south.
more and more paperwork and bullshít every year

Owen Brannigan

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 22, 2017, 06:40:44 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 17, 2017, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on June 17, 2017, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 17, 2017, 09:10:28 AM
Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

As usual when faced with facts and figures the response is to sneer rather than attempt to provide any evidence to the contrary.  To repeat, the paid holiday package is the same for teachers as it is for all public sector workers - 28 days.  It is in regulation.

No doubt in the past teaching could have been seen to be a good option for terms and conditions but those days ended many years ago.  But in an age where the training colleges are demanding 3A grades or better for entry and a minimum 2.1 degree for post grad courses, the young people entering the profession have never been better qualified nor having had to work so hard to get on to the courses so your sneering implication and insult to them simple betrays your mindset.

ONeill

I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.