Orange Order Museum in Belfast and Loughgall

[Tonto]

Of course not but in the absence of seeing anything recently in the news which would lead me to believe that the Orange Order wanted a return of the Penal Laws, I assumed the problem with the Orange was simply their exclusion of Catholics, which is hardly surprising seeing as they ARE a pro-Reformation group.

Also the previous poster said their aim was "Protestant ascendancy" not "the Protestant ascendancy". Call me pedantic but I think the missing "the" indicates I may be right to assume that Orior didn't mean that he believes the OO are looking for a return to "the" Protestant ascendancy.

[Tonto]

The protestant ascendency is not the same as protestantism.

Also, let me word my question differently now based on your point.

Is the Catholic Church sectarian for wanting to promote Catholic ascendancy?

[Itchy]

If you are a protestant and are in the orange order and you fall in love with and marry a Catholic you are expelled, is that correct? If so it is a sectarian and intolerant organisation.

[Eamonnca1]

What catholic ascendancy? Catholics were barred from taking the British throne last time I checked. In Ireland we're a long way from any catholic equivalent of the old protestant ascendancy. Sure the catholic church still has a little too much influence in provision of public services in the free state (and the north for that matter), but to say that there's a catholic "ascendency" is a bit of a stretch.

[Tonto]

What catholic ascendancy? Catholics were barred from taking the British throne last time I checked. In Ireland we're a long way from any catholic equivalent of the old protestant ascendancy. Sure the catholic church still has a little too much influence in provision of public services in the free state (and the north for that matter), but to say that there's a catholic "ascendency" is a bit of a stretch.

Definition of ascendancy: influence, power.  Tell me the Catholic Church don't want that. Or anyone for that matter.

[Tonto]

If you are a protestant and are in the orange order and you fall in love with and marry a Catholic you are expelled, is that correct? If so it is a sectarian and intolerant organisation.

To my knowledge that is incorrect. If you become a Catholic you obviously no longer subscribe to the core beliefs of a pro-Reformation organisation and so would be barred, but afaik if you remain part of the "reformed" faiths there would be nothing to bar you from remaining a member.

[Rossfan]

Isn't attending  Mass (say for a Funeral) an automatic expulsion fromthe OO  as is marrying a Catholic??

[Itchy]

If you are a protestant and are in the orange order and you fall in love with and marry a Catholic you are expelled, is that correct? If so it is a sectarian and intolerant organisation.

To my knowledge that is incorrect. If you become a Catholic you obviously no longer subscribe to the core beliefs of a pro-Reformation organisation and so would be barred, but afaik if you remain part of the "reformed" faiths there would be nothing to bar you from remaining a member.

Well my understanding is that is correct. Not allowed to attend a Catholic service either. Remember they threatened to expel Trimble for attending the funeral of them poor kids who were burned to death years ago. It's a nasty sectarian intolerant organisation. I would stop short of calling every member a bigot but I would say that if you belong to a sectarian organisation and you yourself are not sectarian, well them you are a fool instead.

[T Fearon]

The attendance at catholic mass is flouted daily for funerals etc.There were a few OO members at both my parents' funerals,some Unionist councillors even.

It's that frequent the OO itself is moving towards accepting it on the basis that mass attendance is not contravening their forbiddance of "actively partaking in catholic worship" but is merely showing respect for the deceased,or the couple getting married etc by "attending not partaking!"

It is a fact if you are a Protestant you oppose Catholicism and vice Versa.I am opposed to integrated education and am extremely uncomfortable attending Protestant worship,which I consider to be heresy,but I do not intend any offence to Protestant people nor am I a bigot.

[Tonto]

If you are a protestant and are in the orange order and you fall in love with and marry a Catholic you are expelled, is that correct? If so it is a sectarian and intolerant organisation.

To my knowledge that is incorrect. If you become a Catholic you obviously no longer subscribe to the core beliefs of a pro-Reformation organisation and so would be barred, but afaik if you remain part of the "reformed" faiths there would be nothing to bar you from remaining a member.

Well my understanding is that is correct. Not allowed to attend a Catholic service either. Remember they threatened to expel Trimble for attending the funeral of them poor kids who were burned to death years ago. It's a nasty sectarian intolerant organisation. I would stop short of calling every member a bigot but I would say that if you belong to a sectarian organisation and you yourself are not sectarian, well them you are a fool instead.

Why ask a question if you think you know the answer or are willingly going to discard the answer you don't like anyway?

[seafoid]

The attendance at catholic mass is flouted daily for funerals etc.There were a few OO members at both my parents' funerals,some Unionist councillors even.

It's that frequent the OO itself is moving towards accepting it on the basis that mass attendance is not contravening their forbiddance of "actively partaking in catholic worship" but is merely showing respect for the deceased,or the couple getting married etc by "attending not partaking!"

It is a fact if you are a Protestant you oppose Catholicism and vice Versa.I am opposed to integrated education and am extremely uncomfortable attending Protestant worship,which I consider to be heresy,but I do not intend any offence to Protestant people nor am I a bigot.

Surely considering it as heresy is worse than bigotry

[T Fearon]

Not at all.Considering a concept as heresy does not equate to bigotry,which is extreme irrational hatred.

[Hardy]

Not at all.Considering a concept as heresy does not equate to bigotry,which is extreme irrational hatred.

You couldn't make it up.

[Itchy]

If you are a protestant and are in the orange order and you fall in love with and marry a Catholic you are expelled, is that correct? If so it is a sectarian and intolerant organisation.

To my knowledge that is incorrect. If you become a Catholic you obviously no longer subscribe to the core beliefs of a pro-Reformation organisation and so would be barred, but afaik if you remain part of the "reformed" faiths there would be nothing to bar you from remaining a member.

Well my understanding is that is correct. Not allowed to attend a Catholic service either. Remember they threatened to expel Trimble for attending the funeral of them poor kids who were burned to death years ago. It's a nasty sectarian intolerant organisation. I would stop short of calling every member a bigot but I would say that if you belong to a sectarian organisation and you yourself are not sectarian, well them you are a fool instead.

Why ask a question if you think you know the answer or are willingly going to discard the answer you don't like anyway?

You said "to my knowledge that is incorrect" - hardly a strong concise answer to the question. A quick google search tells me it is in the rules and confirms that what I had understood over the years. Also, if it is in the rules and is regularly flaunted is no excuse. If you don't want to be considered a sectarian bigoted organisation, don't have sectarian bigoted rules.

By the way, its no skin of my nose what catholics or protestants get up to. I have equal disinterest in both religions so not a matter of me "liking" an answer.

[general_lee]

The Orange Order and it's inherent bigotry is not confined to its religious outlook it must be remembered, it is manifested culturally as well so while they may have bigoted rules that are "flaunted" when it comes to going to a Catholic mass, this does not disguise other sectarian aspects of the organisation eg the selling of land/and or property to Catholics, doing business with someone from a Unionist  background before someone from a nationalist background, and the direct and indirect influencing of politicians at all levels in order to further their own agenda. It is in many ways a bigoted and outdated organisation