I see the President and Vice president want to change the 14th amendment i.e. if you are born in the USA, ypu are an American citizen. Would this open attempts to change the 2nd amendment. Would this affect any posters over in America?
It's a bit more than just that. The president CAN'T change the 14th amendment. President in being wrong about something shocker.
He's just rallying for the election next week as he knows he can't change the moderate voters, so he is doubling down on the lunatics who want to make America White again.
Quote from: Puckoon on October 31, 2018, 05:25:09 PM
It's a bit more than just that. The president CAN'T change the 14th amendment. President in being wrong about something shocker.
He's just rallying for the election next week as he knows he can't change the moderate voters, so he is doubling down on the lunatics who want to make America White again.
While I think you're right about why Trump is saying this, I wouldn't be as confident as you as to whether he can do it or not. He can't change the amendment, without a 2/3 majority of states agreeing to it, which won't happen. But he could argue that protection of the 14th only applies to those "subject to the jurisdiction of" the US, and he could argue that kids born to undocumented parents are not thus subject. Whether such a move would be constitutional or not would then be up to the Supreme Court to decide.
We should be careful about throwing stones here as we voted to remove this right to Irish born babbies in 2005.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 31, 2018, 06:36:02 PM
We should be careful about throwing stones here as we voted to remove this right to Irish born babbies in 2005.
Who is this 'we'?
I certainly didn't.
Quote from: Syferus on October 31, 2018, 06:39:28 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 31, 2018, 06:36:02 PM
We should be careful about throwing stones here as we voted to remove this right to Irish born babbies in 2005.
Who is this 'we'?
I certainly didn't.
Were you old enough to vote?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 31, 2018, 07:14:21 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 31, 2018, 06:39:28 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 31, 2018, 06:36:02 PM
We should be careful about throwing stones here as we voted to remove this right to Irish born babbies in 2005.
Who is this 'we'?
I certainly didn't.
Were you old enough to vote?
Were you even eligible to vote?
Quote from: Syferus on October 31, 2018, 07:22:50 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 31, 2018, 07:14:21 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 31, 2018, 06:39:28 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 31, 2018, 06:36:02 PM
We should be careful about throwing stones here as we voted to remove this right to Irish born babbies in 2005.
Who is this 'we'?
I certainly didn't.
Were you old enough to vote?
Were you even eligible to vote?
No seeing as I lived in a different country. What of it?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 31, 2018, 07:51:05 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 31, 2018, 07:22:50 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 31, 2018, 07:14:21 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 31, 2018, 06:39:28 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 31, 2018, 06:36:02 PM
We should be careful about throwing stones here as we voted to remove this right to Irish born babbies in 2005.
Who is this 'we'?
I certainly didn't.
Were you old enough to vote?
Were you even eligible to vote?
No seeing as I lived in a different country. What of it?
Well, then.
Quote from: Denn Forever on October 31, 2018, 05:20:40 PM
I see the President and Vice president want to change the 14th amendment i.e. if you are born in the USA, ypu are an American citizen. Would this open attempts to change the 2nd amendment. Would this affect any posters over in America?
Why would Michael D. Higgins want to do that?
Well Harry Reid used to be for it (removing birthright citizenship) before he was against it
https://lawandcrime.com/immigration/that-time-democrat-harry-reid-said-no-sane-country-would-have-birthright-citizenship-video/
Quote from: Syferus on October 31, 2018, 06:39:28 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 31, 2018, 06:36:02 PM
We should be careful about throwing stones here as we voted to remove this right to Irish born babbies in 2005.
Who is this 'we'?
I certainly didn't.
Syf
Are you serious or just being a contrarian? How you or I voted individually is immaterial. Over 79% voted to scrap the automatic right of citizenship to babbies born here so what's your point? Are you going to challenge every referendum vote cos it wasn't the way
you voted? Do you, like De Valera, look into your heart to see what the Irish people want?
Quote from: Syferus on October 31, 2018, 07:22:50 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 31, 2018, 07:14:21 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 31, 2018, 06:39:28 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 31, 2018, 06:36:02 PM
We should be careful about throwing stones here as we voted to remove this right to Irish born babbies in 2005.
Who is this 'we'?
I certainly didn't.
Were you old enough to vote?
Were you even eligible to vote?
Avoiding the answer by questioning. ::)
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 01, 2018, 09:37:01 AM
Quote from: Syferus on October 31, 2018, 07:22:50 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 31, 2018, 07:14:21 PM
Quote from: Syferus on October 31, 2018, 06:39:28 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 31, 2018, 06:36:02 PM
We should be careful about throwing stones here as we voted to remove this right to Irish born babbies in 2005.
Who is this 'we'?
I certainly didn't.
Were you old enough to vote?
Were you even eligible to vote?
Avoiding the answer by questioning. ::)
This is his general mode of argument. I'm just having a a bit of craic
change the title!
Quote from: Aristo 60 on November 01, 2018, 09:54:27 AM
change the title!
I think there is an ironic beauty in the title so it should be left unchanged.....
Trump is clearly using this as a desperate wedge issue to gin up last minute support, just like his lies and hype about the caravan.
Leaving that and the technical, legal/constitutional aspects aside though, I don't think opposition to affording citizenship to any child born on US soil is automatically right wing and bigoted.
A daycare worker went off the rails near where I live recently and stabbed some young, Chinese infants. The type of place she worked apparently cater to Chinese women coming to the States, having their kid here, and then taking off back home, kid's citizenship in tow. Is that something the US should be permitting?
There is a legitimate discussion to be had on this issue IMO.
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2018, 02:49:14 PM
Trump is clearly using this as a desperate wedge issue to gin up last minute support, just like his lies and hype about the caravan.
Leaving that and the technical, legal/constitutional aspects aside though, I don't think opposition to affording citizenship to any child born on US soil is automatically right wing and bigoted.
A daycare worker went off the rails near where I live recently and stabbed some young, Chinese infants. The type of place she worked apparently cater to Chinese women coming to the States, having their kid here, and then taking off back home, kid's citizenship in tow. Is that something the US should be permitting?
There is a legitimate discussion to be had on this issue IMO.
There are many (including this topic) legitimate discussions that need to be had sooner rather than later - unfortunately the lunacy continues to prevail and it's a shouting match across the aisles.
What's the fix?
Quote from: Puckoon on November 01, 2018, 04:25:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2018, 02:49:14 PM
Trump is clearly using this as a desperate wedge issue to gin up last minute support, just like his lies and hype about the caravan.
Leaving that and the technical, legal/constitutional aspects aside though, I don't think opposition to affording citizenship to any child born on US soil is automatically right wing and bigoted.
A daycare worker went off the rails near where I live recently and stabbed some young, Chinese infants. The type of place she worked apparently cater to Chinese women coming to the States, having their kid here, and then taking off back home, kid's citizenship in tow. Is that something the US should be permitting?
There is a legitimate discussion to be had on this issue IMO.
There are many (including this topic) legitimate discussions that need to be had sooner rather than later - unfortunately the lunacy continues to prevail and it's a shouting match across the aisles.
What's the fix?
No clue. Everything is so polarized, or possibly more correctly, the conversation is so dominated by extremist loudmouths with agendas and ulterior motives, that sensible, measured discussion is impossible. You end up with two sides shouting past each other, not willing to give an inch. Guns is definitely one area where some give and take could easily be achieved. This birthright citizenship issue is another. Even climate change - leaving aside the morons who deny its even a real phenomenon or that humans influence it, there is plenty of room for sensible debate and discussion, on the premise that it IS human-caused AND a significant problem, on what that should mean for civilization in how much we try to control it and how much we just try to mitigate its effects. Unfortunately the denialists are currently in control and intent on full-steam-ahead pretending that there is no problem to even consider.
This reminds me of the 2003 election when Bush floated the idea of a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. It hadn't a hope in hell of getting done, but it was enough to rally his base and get him re-elected.
The sound you would hear would be loading of magazine clips and the action bolts of rifles.