British State Collusion

[Snapchap]

It's called playing the long game lads, I'd love to hear your alternative path and strategy to a united ireland.
Something very similar happened when the south declared themselves a republic.

Most Nationalists have been playing the "long game", SF and IRA have criticised and murdered many Nationalists for "playing the long game"
It's the sheer hypocrisy of their stance. One minute Mo'N is standing in Clonoe unveiling a memorial stone for dead IRA members and the next she's going to London to attend the King Coronation. The head of the very British State they want to remove from Ireland! Which is it? Why murder and kill for 30 years then give it all up to accept a democratic solution? Was SF and the IRA wrong all along?

Your preferred strategy is....

Democracy is my preferred strategy, same as it has always been. Of course we need to reach out to the other community on this island. But SF criticised and murdered nationalists for doing just that. Stoops, west brits, took the soup! That's always been the shit flung at us. Now they are doing exactly that! Why did they have a murderous campaign for 30 years? Why did all those people die? For what?

Still persisting with your effort to interrupt any discussion about Patsy Kelly's murder/British state collusion?

[trailer]

It's called playing the long game lads, I'd love to hear your alternative path and strategy to a united ireland.
Something very similar happened when the south declared themselves a republic.

Most Nationalists have been playing the "long game", SF and IRA have criticised and murdered many Nationalists for "playing the long game"
It's the sheer hypocrisy of their stance. One minute Mo'N is standing in Clonoe unveiling a memorial stone for dead IRA members and the next she's going to London to attend the King Coronation. The head of the very British State they want to remove from Ireland! Which is it? Why murder and kill for 30 years then give it all up to accept a democratic solution? Was SF and the IRA wrong all along?

Your preferred strategy is....

Democracy is my preferred strategy, same as it has always been. Of course we need to reach out to the other community on this island. But SF criticised and murdered nationalists for doing just that. Stoops, west brits, took the soup! That's always been the shit flung at us. Now they are doing exactly that! Why did they have a murderous campaign for 30 years? Why did all those people die? For what?

Still persisting with your effort to interrupt any discussion about Patsy Kelly's murder/British state collusion?

Not sure what you want me to say. It's terrible. What his wife and family went through is awful.
They deserve the truth.

Would SF and IRA lead by example and talk about what they know? Forcing the British to do the same?

Reality for all the victims is this. The British Gov is playing for time. Hoping that Victims and their immediate relatives die. Another 25 years and there will neither families to push for truth and justice nor perpetrators to tell what happened and stand trial. There is no closure for victims.

[Armagh18]

It's called playing the long game lads, I'd love to hear your alternative path and strategy to a united ireland.
Something very similar happened when the south declared themselves a republic.

Most Nationalists have been playing the "long game", SF and IRA have criticised and murdered many Nationalists for "playing the long game"
It's the sheer hypocrisy of their stance. One minute Mo'N is standing in Clonoe unveiling a memorial stone for dead IRA members and the next she's going to London to attend the King Coronation. The head of the very British State they want to remove from Ireland! Which is it? Why murder and kill for 30 years then give it all up to accept a democratic solution? Was SF and the IRA wrong all along?

Your preferred strategy is....

Democracy is my preferred strategy, same as it has always been. Of course we need to reach out to the other community on this island. But SF criticised and murdered nationalists for doing just that. Stoops, west brits, took the soup! That's always been the shit flung at us. Now they are doing exactly that! Why did they have a murderous campaign for 30 years? Why did all those people die? For what?

Still persisting with your effort to interrupt any discussion about Patsy Kelly's murder/British state collusion?

Not sure what you want me to say. It's terrible. What his wife and family went through is awful.
They deserve the truth.

Would SF and IRA lead by example and talk about what they know? Forcing the British to do the same?

Reality for all the victims is this. The British Gov is playing for time. Hoping that Victims and their immediate relatives die. Another 25 years and there will neither families to push for truth and justice nor perpetrators to tell what happened and stand trial. There is no closure for victims.

Quit with that shite, you sound like Arlene!

Agree with your second paragraph though, that is inevitably how it will play out.

[Snapchap]

It's called playing the long game lads, I'd love to hear your alternative path and strategy to a united ireland.
Something very similar happened when the south declared themselves a republic.

Most Nationalists have been playing the "long game", SF and IRA have criticised and murdered many Nationalists for "playing the long game"
It's the sheer hypocrisy of their stance. One minute Mo'N is standing in Clonoe unveiling a memorial stone for dead IRA members and the next she's going to London to attend the King Coronation. The head of the very British State they want to remove from Ireland! Which is it? Why murder and kill for 30 years then give it all up to accept a democratic solution? Was SF and the IRA wrong all along?

Your preferred strategy is....

Democracy is my preferred strategy, same as it has always been. Of course we need to reach out to the other community on this island. But SF criticised and murdered nationalists for doing just that. Stoops, west brits, took the soup! That's always been the shit flung at us. Now they are doing exactly that! Why did they have a murderous campaign for 30 years? Why did all those people die? For what?

Still persisting with your effort to interrupt any discussion about Patsy Kelly's murder/British state collusion?

Not sure what you want me to say. It's terrible. What his wife and family went through is awful.
They deserve the truth.

Would SF and IRA lead by example and talk about what they know? Forcing the British to do the same?

Reality for all the victims is this. The British Gov is playing for time. Hoping that Victims and their immediate relatives die. Another 25 years and there will neither families to push for truth and justice nor perpetrators to tell what happened and stand trial. There is no closure for victims.

It's just a bit revealing that when the news cycle of three days ago was dominated by the Ombusdman's report which outlined the fairly staggering, multi-levelled nature of collusion by the British security forces in the murder of an innocent nationalist councillor, that your gut instinct was to respond to it with a series of posts about SF and the IRA. It's revealing that it took you three days to make a tokenistic reference to Patsy's murder. It's revealing that you only made your tokenistic reference to Patsy's murder after being repeatedly asked why you were ignoring it. It's revealing that after making your tokenistic reference, that you immediately returned to talking about SF and the IRA in the very next sentence.

Then again it's really not that surprising, because he was after all murdered by the British Army and every time you have ever been asked for your opinion on whether the british army's activities here amounted to terrorism, you have steadfastly refused to answer.

[trailer]

It's called playing the long game lads, I'd love to hear your alternative path and strategy to a united ireland.
Something very similar happened when the south declared themselves a republic.

Most Nationalists have been playing the "long game", SF and IRA have criticised and murdered many Nationalists for "playing the long game"
It's the sheer hypocrisy of their stance. One minute Mo'N is standing in Clonoe unveiling a memorial stone for dead IRA members and the next she's going to London to attend the King Coronation. The head of the very British State they want to remove from Ireland! Which is it? Why murder and kill for 30 years then give it all up to accept a democratic solution? Was SF and the IRA wrong all along?

Your preferred strategy is....

Democracy is my preferred strategy, same as it has always been. Of course we need to reach out to the other community on this island. But SF criticised and murdered nationalists for doing just that. Stoops, west brits, took the soup! That's always been the shit flung at us. Now they are doing exactly that! Why did they have a murderous campaign for 30 years? Why did all those people die? For what?

Still persisting with your effort to interrupt any discussion about Patsy Kelly's murder/British state collusion?

Not sure what you want me to say. It's terrible. What his wife and family went through is awful.
They deserve the truth.

Would SF and IRA lead by example and talk about what they know? Forcing the British to do the same?

Reality for all the victims is this. The British Gov is playing for time. Hoping that Victims and their immediate relatives die. Another 25 years and there will neither families to push for truth and justice nor perpetrators to tell what happened and stand trial. There is no closure for victims.

It's just a bit revealing that when the news cycle of three days ago was dominated by the Ombusdman's report which outlined the fairly staggering, multi-levelled nature of collusion by the British security forces in the murder of an innocent nationalist councillor, that your gut instinct was to respond to it with a series of posts about SF and the IRA. It's revealing that it took you three days to make a tokenistic reference to Patsy's murder. It's revealing that you only made your tokenistic reference to Patsy's murder after being repeatedly asked why you were ignoring it. It's revealing that after making your tokenistic reference, that you immediately returned to talking about SF and the IRA in the very next sentence.

Then again it's really not that surprising, because he was after all murdered by the British Army and every time you have ever been asked for your opinion on whether the british army's activities here amounted to terrorism, you have steadfastly refused to answer.

Sorry I didn't realise you were the thread police. Apologies.

[Snapchap]

It's called playing the long game lads, I'd love to hear your alternative path and strategy to a united ireland.
Something very similar happened when the south declared themselves a republic.

Most Nationalists have been playing the "long game", SF and IRA have criticised and murdered many Nationalists for "playing the long game"
It's the sheer hypocrisy of their stance. One minute Mo'N is standing in Clonoe unveiling a memorial stone for dead IRA members and the next she's going to London to attend the King Coronation. The head of the very British State they want to remove from Ireland! Which is it? Why murder and kill for 30 years then give it all up to accept a democratic solution? Was SF and the IRA wrong all along?

Your preferred strategy is....

Democracy is my preferred strategy, same as it has always been. Of course we need to reach out to the other community on this island. But SF criticised and murdered nationalists for doing just that. Stoops, west brits, took the soup! That's always been the shit flung at us. Now they are doing exactly that! Why did they have a murderous campaign for 30 years? Why did all those people die? For what?

Still persisting with your effort to interrupt any discussion about Patsy Kelly's murder/British state collusion?

Not sure what you want me to say. It's terrible. What his wife and family went through is awful.
They deserve the truth.

Would SF and IRA lead by example and talk about what they know? Forcing the British to do the same?

Reality for all the victims is this. The British Gov is playing for time. Hoping that Victims and their immediate relatives die. Another 25 years and there will neither families to push for truth and justice nor perpetrators to tell what happened and stand trial. There is no closure for victims.

It's just a bit revealing that when the news cycle of three days ago was dominated by the Ombusdman's report which outlined the fairly staggering, multi-levelled nature of collusion by the British security forces in the murder of an innocent nationalist councillor, that your gut instinct was to respond to it with a series of posts about SF and the IRA. It's revealing that it took you three days to make a tokenistic reference to Patsy's murder. It's revealing that you only made your tokenistic reference to Patsy's murder after being repeatedly asked why you were ignoring it. It's revealing that after making your tokenistic reference, that you immediately returned to talking about SF and the IRA in the very next sentence.

Then again it's really not that surprising, because he was after all murdered by the British Army and every time you have ever been asked for your opinion on whether the british army's activities here amounted to terrorism, you have steadfastly refused to answer.

Sorry I didn't realise you were the thread police. Apologies.

Was the british army's campaign here a terrorist one, trailer?

[trailer]

It's called playing the long game lads, I'd love to hear your alternative path and strategy to a united ireland.
Something very similar happened when the south declared themselves a republic.

Most Nationalists have been playing the "long game", SF and IRA have criticised and murdered many Nationalists for "playing the long game"
It's the sheer hypocrisy of their stance. One minute Mo'N is standing in Clonoe unveiling a memorial stone for dead IRA members and the next she's going to London to attend the King Coronation. The head of the very British State they want to remove from Ireland! Which is it? Why murder and kill for 30 years then give it all up to accept a democratic solution? Was SF and the IRA wrong all along?

Your preferred strategy is....

Democracy is my preferred strategy, same as it has always been. Of course we need to reach out to the other community on this island. But SF criticised and murdered nationalists for doing just that. Stoops, west brits, took the soup! That's always been the shit flung at us. Now they are doing exactly that! Why did they have a murderous campaign for 30 years? Why did all those people die? For what?

Still persisting with your effort to interrupt any discussion about Patsy Kelly's murder/British state collusion?

Not sure what you want me to say. It's terrible. What his wife and family went through is awful.
They deserve the truth.

Would SF and IRA lead by example and talk about what they know? Forcing the British to do the same?

Reality for all the victims is this. The British Gov is playing for time. Hoping that Victims and their immediate relatives die. Another 25 years and there will neither families to push for truth and justice nor perpetrators to tell what happened and stand trial. There is no closure for victims.

It's just a bit revealing that when the news cycle of three days ago was dominated by the Ombusdman's report which outlined the fairly staggering, multi-levelled nature of collusion by the British security forces in the murder of an innocent nationalist councillor, that your gut instinct was to respond to it with a series of posts about SF and the IRA. It's revealing that it took you three days to make a tokenistic reference to Patsy's murder. It's revealing that you only made your tokenistic reference to Patsy's murder after being repeatedly asked why you were ignoring it. It's revealing that after making your tokenistic reference, that you immediately returned to talking about SF and the IRA in the very next sentence.

Then again it's really not that surprising, because he was after all murdered by the British Army and every time you have ever been asked for your opinion on whether the british army's activities here amounted to terrorism, you have steadfastly refused to answer.

Sorry I didn't realise you were the thread police. Apologies.

Was the british army's campaign here a terrorist one, trailer?

I've answered this question, many times on different threrads. Yet you refuse to answer the same question about the IRA. Revealing alright.

[Snapchap]

Was the british army's campaign here a terrorist one, trailer?

I've answered this question, many times on different threrads. Yet you refuse to answer the same question about the IRA. Revealing alright.

No you haven't. You've only gone as far as to say that they wouldn't regard their campaign as a terrorist one. You haven't said whether YOU would consider it to be a terrorist one. If you believe I am incorrect, and that you have in fact answered it "many times", then post a link to just one of those times.

And I don't recall you ever asking me if the IRA campaign was a terrorist one (care to link to you asking me that while you're at it?). I'm more than happy so say that no, I don't regard it as a terrorist campaign. Kinda like the Old IRA campaign, it was a legitimate campaign which of course, inevitably, did feature many illegitimate and reprehensible acts. Of course, this isn't a thread about the IRA campaign, despite your repeated efforts to turn it into one. So perhaps we'll continue the IRA discussion on a more appropriate thread of your choosing and we can, if you can stomach the thought, actually allow this thread to be about British state collusion with loyalist paramilitaries?

[Armagh18]

Lads can you take that to an appropriate thread or to PM please?

[Itchy]

It's called playing the long game lads, I'd love to hear your alternative path and strategy to a united ireland.
Something very similar happened when the south declared themselves a republic.

Why didn't the republicans start to play the 'long game ' in the 60s if that was the way to go.
There'd be plenty alive today if they had

It's the way to go now, stratagies and situations change. If it's hard to understand that watch a 60s gaa match and then watch a modern one.

[Itchy]

It's called playing the long game lads, I'd love to hear your alternative path and strategy to a united ireland.
Something very similar happened when the south declared themselves a republic.

Most Nationalists have been playing the "long game", SF and IRA have criticised and murdered many Nationalists for "playing the long game"
It's the sheer hypocrisy of their stance. One minute Mo'N is standing in Clonoe unveiling a memorial stone for dead IRA members and the next she's going to London to attend the King Coronation. The head of the very British State they want to remove from Ireland! Which is it? Why murder and kill for 30 years then give it all up to accept a democratic solution? Was SF and the IRA wrong all along?

Your preferred strategy is....

Democracy is my preferred strategy, same as it has always been. Of course we need to reach out to the other community on this island. But SF criticised and murdered nationalists for doing just that. Stoops, west brits, took the soup! That's always been the shit flung at us. Now they are doing exactly that! Why did they have a murderous campaign for 30 years? Why did all those people die? For what?

You think we would've got where we are today without violence. I think without violence (unfortunately) we'd have 32 counties under British rule and be 2nd class citizen in our own country.
As for now, little Englanders are wrecking Britain, demographics as going to turn against the union very quickly. It's the end times for the 6 counties so correct strategy is to reach out to what will soon be a large minority.

[Saffrongael]

Lads can you take that to an appropriate thread or to PM please?

Some amount of time spent typing these posts ffs

[seafoid]

British State Collusion is meaningless post Scappatticci. The Brits were managing the IRA towards a ceasefire and at least 18 people were murdered in the process.
There is no ideological purity in the North, unfortunately. There are just loads of people who died pointlessly.

[Snapchap]

Seems fitting to reference here the death today of British Army General Frank Kitson, given that he, more than anybody else in the British establishment, wrote the how-to book (quite literally) on state collusion with paramilitaries and counterinsurgency gangs. Kitson developed the policy of attempting to "kill the fish" (republicans) by terrorising the wider nationalist population - a tactic he termed "poisoning the water" - and he did his best to put his theory into practice.

The 1st Battalion of the Parachute Regiment - which carried out the Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy massacre - was nicknamed 'Kitson's private army', while the British Army's secret Military Reaction Force (MRF), a counter-insurgency unit which is known to have been involved in a large number of killings of innocent Catholics, was based at Kitson's Palace Barracks HQ in Belfast. The MRF is thought to have been formed based on Kitson's tactics in supressing the Mau Mau rebellion in Kenya as well as his previous colonial exploits in Malaya and Cyrpus. Similar units to the MRF had been set up in Cyprus (Q Patrols) and Oman (firqats). It is telling that every single General Officer Commanding the British Army in the north in the 1970s had seen military service in the sort of 'colonies' where Kitson learned his trade.

Kitson, of course, goes to his death with an eye-watering list of awards, titles, honours and gongs bestowed upon him by an empire grateful for his service, but I can't imagine any of those medals or titles will carry much weight now as he meets his maker.

My his many victims in Ireland and around the world RIP.

[Hereiam]

Not really surprised about this, sad for the victims families.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68218740