Dublin v Ros Croke Park 5/8/18

Started by Rossfan, August 01, 2018, 11:39:59 PM

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Cunny Funt

Quote from: Syferus on August 06, 2018, 12:24:30 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 06, 2018, 12:22:49 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 05, 2018, 11:23:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 05, 2018, 11:11:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 05, 2018, 10:41:56 PM

it matters little who the manager is IMO as we have limited playing personal.
Even a team full of limited playing personal can defend better than Roscommon are currently doing.

Here is a quote from James Horan

"Roscommon have numbers back in defence but their isn't any desire to put any tackle in,to slow down the opponent or to make them turn or to push and keep them out. They don't show any of the basics or understanding in defensive play"

Hard to disagree with any of that but the question is will improvement happen or will it be Déjà vu for Roscommon again next summer.

exactly there are players back but they are not good enough. the desire is clear when you see how some players try and get back. how else can you explain players being faster running forward then when thet are going  towards own goal or pulling out of tackles etc.

I think its called players having their minds focused on attacking from the voices of the management and then not having a clue about their defensive duties because little or no work is done in that area. No surprise that the final four in the championship have a strong focus on defending first and attack second.

What Dublin team have you been watching?

Dublin under Pat Gilroy focused first on their defensive frailties and as Alan Brogan said recently they are now at their defensive peak under Gavin.  And no don't try to throw that dead rubber game into the mix.

Syferus

#61
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 06, 2018, 12:54:16 AM
Quote from: Syferus on August 06, 2018, 12:24:30 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 06, 2018, 12:22:49 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 05, 2018, 11:23:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 05, 2018, 11:11:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 05, 2018, 10:41:56 PM

it matters little who the manager is IMO as we have limited playing personal.
Even a team full of limited playing personal can defend better than Roscommon are currently doing.

Here is a quote from James Horan

"Roscommon have numbers back in defence but their isn't any desire to put any tackle in,to slow down the opponent or to make them turn or to push and keep them out. They don't show any of the basics or understanding in defensive play"

Hard to disagree with any of that but the question is will improvement happen or will it be Déjà vu for Roscommon again next summer.

exactly there are players back but they are not good enough. the desire is clear when you see how some players try and get back. how else can you explain players being faster running forward then when thet are going  towards own goal or pulling out of tackles etc.

I think its called players having their minds focused on attacking from the voices of the management and then not having a clue about their defensive duties because little or no work is done in that area. No surprise that the final four in the championship have a strong focus on defending first and attack second.

What Dublin team have you been watching?

Dublin under Pat Gilroy focused first on their defensive frailties and as Alan Brogan said recently they are now at their defensive peak under Gavin.  And no don't try to throw that dead rubber game into the mix.

Dublin under Gavin focused on attack and tightened up a bit after they suffered their only lost since 2012 to Donegal in '14. They were so far ahead of everyone else it's even debatable if that change had any meaningful effect on their end results because that one match appears as much a fluke and and an act of Dublin hubris than any sort of inherent failing. The margin of comfort they enjoyed perhaps improved.

They're entire success is built off being the best attacking team in the country - defensively there are plenty of solid teams who aren't far off them but none even come close to Dublin on the front foot.

Not like you to get something wrong.

Cunny Funt

Quote from: Syferus on August 06, 2018, 01:04:55 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 06, 2018, 12:54:16 AM
Quote from: Syferus on August 06, 2018, 12:24:30 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 06, 2018, 12:22:49 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 05, 2018, 11:23:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 05, 2018, 11:11:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 05, 2018, 10:41:56 PM

it matters little who the manager is IMO as we have limited playing personal.
Even a team full of limited playing personal can defend better than Roscommon are currently doing.

Here is a quote from James Horan

"Roscommon have numbers back in defence but their isn't any desire to put any tackle in,to slow down the opponent or to make them turn or to push and keep them out. They don't show any of the basics or understanding in defensive play"

Hard to disagree with any of that but the question is will improvement happen or will it be Déjà vu for Roscommon again next summer.

exactly there are players back but they are not good enough. the desire is clear when you see how some players try and get back. how else can you explain players being faster running forward then when thet are going  towards own goal or pulling out of tackles etc.

I think its called players having their minds focused on attacking from the voices of the management and then not having a clue about their defensive duties because little or no work is done in that area. No surprise that the final four in the championship have a strong focus on defending first and attack second.

What Dublin team have you been watching?

Dublin under Pat Gilroy focused first on their defensive frailties and as Alan Brogan said recently they are now at their defensive peak under Gavin.  And no don't try to throw that dead rubber game into the mix.

Dublin under Gavin focused on attack and tightened up a bit after they suffered their only lost since 2012 to Donegal in '14. They were so far ahead of everyone else it's even debatable if that change had any meaningful effect on their end results because that one match appears as much a fluke and and an act of Dublin hubris than any sort of inherent failing. The margin of comfort they enjoyed perhaps improved.

They're entire success is built off being the best attacking team in the country - defensively there are plenty of solid teams who aren't far off them but none even come close to Dublin on the front foot.

Not like you to get something wrong.

Not true. The improvement of their defence has played a huge part in their success and their counter attacking and turnover game has allowed their scoring totals to flourish and they are also smarter and wiser in possession than ever before. Against Donegal in 2014 was no fluke they were exposed on one of the few weaknesses they had at the time e.g easily caught on the counter attack and that no longer happens now.

Orchard park

Quote from: Syferus on August 06, 2018, 01:04:55 AMo
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 06, 2018, 12:54:16 AM
Quote from: Syferus on August 06, 2018, 12:24:30 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 06, 2018, 12:22:49 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 05, 2018, 11:23:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 05, 2018, 11:11:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 05, 2018, 10:41:56 PM

it matters little who the manager is IMO as we have limited playing personal.
Even a team full of limited playing personal can defend better than Roscommon are currently doing.

Here is a quote from James Horan

"Roscommon have numbers back in defence but their isn't any desire to put any tackle in,to slow down the opponent or to make them turn or to push and keep them out. They don't show any of the basics or understanding in defensive play"

Hard to disagree with any of that but the question is will improvement happen or will it be Déjà vu for Roscommon again next summer.

exactly there are players back but they are not good enough. the desire is clear when you see how some players try and get back. how else can you explain players being faster running forward then when thet are going  towards own goal or pulling out of tackles etc.

I think its called players having their minds focused on attacking from the voices of the management and then not having a clue about their defensive duties because little or no work is done in that area. No surprise that the final four in the championship have a strong focus on defending first and attack second.

What Dublin team have you been watching?

Dublin under Pat Gilroy focused first on their defensive frailties and as Alan Brogan said recently they are now at their defensive peak under Gavin.  And no don't try to throw that dead rubber game into the mix.

Dublin under Gavin focused on attack and tightened up a bit after they suffered their only lost since 2012 to Donegal in '14. They were so far ahead of everyone else it's even debatable if that change had any meaningful effect on their end results because that one match appears as much a fluke and and an act of Dublin hubris than any sort of inherent failing. The margin of comfort they enjoyed perhaps improved.

They're entire success is built off being the best attacking team in the country - defensively there are plenty of solid teams who aren't far off them but none even come close to Dublin on the front foot.

Not like you to get something wrong.

Syferus, which Dublin team gave you been watching,  have you seen Duboin apart from their training spins vs Roscommon. This Dublin team is built on Cian Sullivan marshalling a defence which counterattack when allowed...... they have issues on quick ball to full forwards and Rory O' Carroll  was never replaced and there was no Cooper today.... but this is a very defendisely focused team, which we still shipped 4-24 against

Syferus

#64
Quote from: Orchard park on August 06, 2018, 02:44:19 AM
Quote from: Syferus on August 06, 2018, 01:04:55 AMo
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 06, 2018, 12:54:16 AM
Quote from: Syferus on August 06, 2018, 12:24:30 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 06, 2018, 12:22:49 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 05, 2018, 11:23:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 05, 2018, 11:11:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 05, 2018, 10:41:56 PM

it matters little who the manager is IMO as we have limited playing personal.
Even a team full of limited playing personal can defend better than Roscommon are currently doing.

Here is a quote from James Horan

"Roscommon have numbers back in defence but their isn't any desire to put any tackle in,to slow down the opponent or to make them turn or to push and keep them out. They don't show any of the basics or understanding in defensive play"

Hard to disagree with any of that but the question is will improvement happen or will it be Déjà vu for Roscommon again next summer.

exactly there are players back but they are not good enough. the desire is clear when you see how some players try and get back. how else can you explain players being faster running forward then when thet are going  towards own goal or pulling out of tackles etc.

I think its called players having their minds focused on attacking from the voices of the management and then not having a clue about their defensive duties because little or no work is done in that area. No surprise that the final four in the championship have a strong focus on defending first and attack second.

What Dublin team have you been watching?

Dublin under Pat Gilroy focused first on their defensive frailties and as Alan Brogan said recently they are now at their defensive peak under Gavin.  And no don't try to throw that dead rubber game into the mix.

Dublin under Gavin focused on attack and tightened up a bit after they suffered their only lost since 2012 to Donegal in '14. They were so far ahead of everyone else it's even debatable if that change had any meaningful effect on their end results because that one match appears as much a fluke and and an act of Dublin hubris than any sort of inherent failing. The margin of comfort they enjoyed perhaps improved.

They're entire success is built off being the best attacking team in the country - defensively there are plenty of solid teams who aren't far off them but none even come close to Dublin on the front foot.

Not like you to get something wrong.

Syferus, which Dublin team gave you been watching,  have you seen Duboin apart from their training spins vs Roscommon. This Dublin team is built on Cian Sullivan marshalling a defence which counterattack when allowed...... they have issues on quick ball to full forwards and Rory O' Carroll  was never replaced and there was no Cooper today.... but this is a very defendisely focused team, which we still shipped 4-24 against

Yeah, try and tell me Dublin are 'very defensive' again so I can get a good laugh a second time. They do the fundamentals well defensively but no team is better attacking, exploiting and creating space as Dublin. It is literally their calling card and the reason they will win this AI at a canter.

Much harder to teach that than the stuff Galway, Tyrone and Monaghan are at and calling it football. The sad fact is we'll have to join that group in butchering the sport to be halfways competitive at this level.

Rossfan

Until we stop shipping 4-19, 4-24 and 4-24 v the top teams , not to mention 4-12 v Cavan,  we're going nowhere.
Cavan and Meath lost to Tyrone but they made them sweat. We didn't.
As I said earlier time for our busted flush management to do the dacent thing.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

weareros

Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 05, 2018, 10:41:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 05, 2018, 10:10:54 PM
Quote from: weareros on August 05, 2018, 08:01:49 PM
Roscommon County Chairman Seamus Sweeney to John Evans in 2015

"He (Evans) rang me and asked me what my thoughts were on him staying on. I told him that, as far as I was concerned, it was time to him and Roscommon to move on."

After 3 years of poorly conditioned teams and failing to develop any type of defensive structure against average teams (Cavan, Armagh) and good to very good teams (our 3 qtr final games), what are the thoughts of our chairman on a 4th year of this? Doubt we'll hear boo...
+1.

Home tired but not surprised at the expected walloping.
Smallest Ros crowd I've ever seen at a Championship match. Jases we got more at D4 games!!!
I won't go into rant mode ad that was all said 2 weeks ago.
What a pity our expensive management hadn't given Dana Petit a few games in winter,  Spring and Summer!!!
To think they dropped Kelly from the panel earlier in the year.
Bright spots - some ooints Diarmuid and Donie. What has the latter to do to get a starting place?
Do the dacent thing Kevin and Liam.

the same people who wanted Evans to get an extra yr now not willing to give mcstay 1. despite 3 CFs 1 nestor promotion to D1 and stayed in d1 for a year also.

it matters little who the manager is IMO as we have limited playing personal.

We need to stop over-egging stuff. We qualified for 3 Connacht finals because we had the easiest draws in Ireland. We did not have to meet Galway or Mayo once in last 3 years to qualify for a Connacht final. We won a Nestor and it was wonderful, but we beat a Galway team that was stuck in Division 2 for a few years, had been beaten by Div 3 Tipp the previous year, while we had been a Div 1 team for two years. In other words, we beat a team below us. We were already a promoted Div 1 side when McStay took over and while it was great to retain Div 1 in first year, it was achieved by hard training early in the year and was of little value when we struggled to beat New York by a point in championship and were eventually sent packing by Div 3 or 4 Clare.

Ask yourself this of McStay and McHale. If Mayo were offered a deal that all their stadium debts would be cleared and they get McStay as part of the package, would they take it? Would they hell. However, there's too many people in Ros county board and the local press in awe that we have a Sunday game panelist as our manager. Nice fella, was a handy forward back in the 80s, plays nice clean football but is so far divorced from reality of modern game and so it's time to hand over the reins in Ros before our players, the best we have produced in 2 generations, further regress.

Syferus

I see the same four lads from Stolen Sheep have booted up their alt acounts here to launch into the same tiresome diatribes about McStay five pints in on a bank holiday Sunday. What idiots.

PadraicHenryPearse

Quote from: weareros on August 06, 2018, 03:19:14 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 05, 2018, 10:41:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 05, 2018, 10:10:54 PM
Quote from: weareros on August 05, 2018, 08:01:49 PM
Roscommon County Chairman Seamus Sweeney to John Evans in 2015

"He (Evans) rang me and asked me what my thoughts were on him staying on. I told him that, as far as I was concerned, it was time to him and Roscommon to move on."

After 3 years of poorly conditioned teams and failing to develop any type of defensive structure against average teams (Cavan, Armagh) and good to very good teams (our 3 qtr final games), what are the thoughts of our chairman on a 4th year of this? Doubt we'll hear boo...
+1.

Home tired but not surprised at the expected walloping.
Smallest Ros crowd I've ever seen at a Championship match. Jases we got more at D4 games!!!
I won't go into rant mode ad that was all said 2 weeks ago.
What a pity our expensive management hadn't given Dana Petit a few games in winter,  Spring and Summer!!!
To think they dropped Kelly from the panel earlier in the year.
Bright spots - some ooints Diarmuid and Donie. What has the latter to do to get a starting place?
Do the dacent thing Kevin and Liam.

the same people who wanted Evans to get an extra yr now not willing to give mcstay 1. despite 3 CFs 1 nestor promotion to D1 and stayed in d1 for a year also.

it matters little who the manager is IMO as we have limited playing personal.

We need to stop over-egging stuff. We qualified for 3 Connacht finals because we had the easiest draws in Ireland. We did not have to meet Galway or Mayo once in last 3 years to qualify for a Connacht final. We won a Nestor and it was wonderful, but we beat a Galway team that was stuck in Division 2 for a few years, had been beaten by Div 3 Tipp the previous year, while we had been a Div 1 team for two years. In other words, we beat a team below us. We were already a promoted Div 1 side when McStay took over and while it was great to retain Div 1 in first year, it was achieved by hard training early in the year and was of little value when we struggled to beat New York by a point in championship and were eventually sent packing by Div 3 or 4 Clare.

Ask yourself this of McStay and McHale. If Mayo were offered a deal that all their stadium debts would be cleared and they get McStay as part of the package, would they take it? Would they hell. However, there's too many people in Ros county board and the local press in awe that we have a Sunday game panelist as our manager. Nice fella, was a handy forward back in the 80s, plays nice clean football but is so far divorced from reality of modern game and so it's time to hand over the reins in Ros before our players, the best we have produced in 2 generations, further regress.

We lost to d3 /d4 Sligo and Fermanagh with JE but people wanted to give him a fourth year. No nestors either. My point is the hypocrisy is clear to see, the dislike for Mcstay has been there from day 1 from people who thought JE should stay. Every chance they you have got you stick the boot in.

weareros

PHP, there's no dislike and I have on several occasions said I like Kevin and some of the most pleasant  Ros football I have watched is under McStay. What criticism I have is football related and I don't see how he can transform in year 4 so we should consider a new approach and voice now before a year is wasted. I don't for example think McStay has the ability to dispense with McHale whose coaching is not up to standard, even through he has proclaimed himself the best coach in Ireland, a sure warning sign if ever there was one. Games under JE are irrelevant - he inherited a team stuck in Div 3 and the Murtaghs, Dalys and Smiths were u21 players. McStay and Fergal came back just as we got promoted to Div 1. We should not be at the stage in our development three years later  when we are shipping 18 point losses to Tyrone and S&C looks woefully inadequate. The body language on some of the players in Tyrone and Donegal games was alarming. Signs need to be read and acted upon. Again nothing personal, just asking what is best course of action for our players.

Rossfan

Body language of players indeed.
The enthusiasm and energy displayed against Galway and the drawn Rhubarb game in 2017 is totally gone this Summer.
That's usually a sign that all is not as healthy as should be between  players and management .
Can the current manager change course and do what's necessary e.g S&C,  defensive coach, sensible team selections etc. On the latter I'm told we had 10 different CHBs in 13 Competitive games. Full back must be nearly the same.
Madness.
I have no confidence in the current regime based on what I see on the field (not some personal dislike as 1 or 2 seem to think).
I hear rumours of a new fundraiser coming soon.
Will be a hard sell after conceding 8-68 in 3 games.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

dublin7

Never thought I'd say this but Syferus is right about Dublin. To call the dubs defensive is a joke. They are solid defensively and that is different to playing a defensive game. The reason Cian O'Sullivan is often the spare man is because the opposition bring forwards back to defend so he is left free.

I'm fairness to Roscommom yesterday they kept playing yesterday and could have shipped a serious beating. Fitzsimoms will be happy to see the back of Murtagh. Kicked some great points yesterday

PadraicHenryPearse

Body language of players. Yet not one comment on who these players are or that they are responsible for pulling out of tackle or not tracking back etc. it's something to do with management!!! I'm not saying that mightn't be the case but players are given a free ride because of the opinion of management.

Orchard park

Players in general across most counties are given  more latitude as they are amateurs...

Highly expensed managers / coaches tend to get the critique that goes with the territory,

Incidentally what happened eamknn fitzmsurice was a disgrace

Rossfan

I wonder how our benefactor feels about his protégés now?
He's probably the only one that can get Kevin out of his own arse and into the real world.

I laughed at an oul buck I know at the time when he said only Ros Co Board would dump 2 Kerrymen and replace them with 2 Mayomen.
I'm not laughing now -and no 2 bucks - I'm not hankering after the Evans era which along with "ye hate McStay" seems to be ye're stock response to the justified criticism of our management.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM