FAI...New Manager Hunt continues

[deiseach]

Ah Jaysus Deiseach do I have to explain again???

All 3 teams have genuine belief that they could finish second behind Germany but in terms of us and the players we have available to us when you are 2-1 up at home against a team like Austria and end up throwing it away like we did for the reasons I've explained then I think I can say we underachieved.

No, you don't need to explain it again, I think you're proving thewobbler's point about 'unrealistic and unfair expectations'. If we finish fourth behind Austria and Sweden it doesn't mean we've underachieved. That's our level, and someone has to finish last out of that particular group. When you look at the standing of the other small teams in these islands who are effectively satellite states of the English game, I'd say we're overachieving mightily to be in the same company as Austria and Sweden.

[Billys Boots]

You're talking in generalities Deiseach (and Wobbler) - of course we shouldn't as a nation be able to compete on the same level playing field as the bigger nations.

Declan is talking in specifics - it's a three team group for second place, we should be leading that 'group' after two games and we're not.  That's disappointing, and a relative underachievement on our part. 

[NetNitrate]

Sure a stronger Irish team lost to a worse Austrian team 1-3 at home in 1995. Norn Ireland went on to beat the same Austrian team 5:3 in Austria. Even at the best of times, we always produce very jittery soccer teams. The dogs in the street  knew Austria would equalize. The only consolation is the media, if they are on the ball, can get some good puns out of it. Von Trap suffers at the hands of the Austrians. How do you solve a problem like Giovanni? Brazil - a fa fa fa way to go.

[deiseach]

You're talking in generalities Deiseach (and Wobbler) - of course we shouldn't as a nation be able to compete on the same level playing field as the bigger nations.

Declan is talking in specifics - it's a three team group for second place, we should be leading that 'group' after two games and we're not.  That's disappointing, and a relative underachievement on our part.

The assumption that we should be beating Austria and Sweden with the talent at our disposal seems to be based on the absence of a 30 year-old journeyman. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[deiseach]

Sure a stronger Irish team lost to a worse Austrian team 1-3 at home in 1995. Norn Ireland went on to beat the same Austrian team 5:3 in Austria. Even at the best of times, we always produce very jittery soccer teams. The dogs in the street  knew Austria would equalize. The only consolation is the media, if they are on the ball, can get some good puns out of it. Von Trap suffers at the hands of the Austrians. How do you solve a problem like Giovanni? Brazil - a fa fa fa way to go.

Did I hear Dunphy saying that Wes Hoolahan was one of his favourite things?

[imtommygunn]

Forgetting the fact of expectations etc from prior to the game though the reality is that we should have won that game. That is not based on any history or where either team are currently at - it is based on the 90 minutes that were played.

In terms of chances Ireland had the much better chances. Long hit the post, the austrian keeper made a superb save from a header and mcclean was reasonably close with a free kick. All of these were better chances than austria were capable of creating. Add to that it took austria ~60-70 minutes to even get a corner. Yes there was one towards the end where the striker could have nicked it but defending meant he didn't.

Austria were much more composed on the ball but were lacking in creating opportunities.

On the face of the 90 minutes too Shane Long was (even at the point he came of) torturing the austrian defense. Sammon was dead on his feet - Walters wasn't far behind and McClean was heading that direction too.

People may say these guys should be fit for it however Walters was playing wing where he has to go up and down. Sammon was played very deep in the second half and had a mass amount of running to do. Neither of these guys would play these roles for their club so it is foreign to them and they can be excused for being tired. McClean well he went at them every time he got the ball so maybe had an excuse.

To take Long off was a shocking decision and the lack of substitutions given how tired the above 3 guys were was extremely poor. So to criticise Trap for those is fair enough I'd have said. Over the course of the 90 minutes that game really was 2 points lost and it was 2 points lost by poor management decisions IMO.

[Declan]

The assumption that we should be beating Austria and Sweden with the talent at our disposal seems to be based on the absence of a 30 year-old journeyman. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this one

No that's a misrepresentation of my argument  - I never said it was because it was Holohan wasn't playing. It's a combination of individual errors, team selection, tactics and the manager's inability to see how a game is evolving. Of those only one is outside his control, the individual errors. Everything else is within his remit and he's failing miserably in my opinion.
If I add that into his utter contempt for the players and his inability to communicate to me it's a no brainer

[highorlow]

The thing is if Trap made the decisions that were not made and were viewed as the correct ones now and the result still ended up the same the soccer lads would still be whinging and complaining. It would be more or less along the lines that the subs shouldn't have been made.....

Trap can't win at this stage. After Friday it was the players that won (drew) the game and zero praise for the manager getting the tactics right against a technically superior team and after last night it was Trap who lost (drew) the game after getting the tactics wrong for 1.08% of the match.

As some sensible posters stated we just don't have the 1 or 2 players to give us the class and killer edge that we had in the past.

[magpie seanie]

Can't believe there are still people defending Trappatoni.

Well I suppose we are a country that will return FF to power after the next election so nothing should surprise me.

[Declan]

The thing is if Trap made the decisions that were not made and were viewed as the correct ones now and the result still ended up the same the soccer lads would still be whinging and complaining. It would be more or less along the lines that the subs shouldn't have been made.....

Eh that's some conclusion to jump to from the thread following last night's result. Says more about your thinking than it does about those of us who don't reckon he's doing a good job. Read the thread again and tell me where I said that. If we had held on for a 2-1 win my criticisms of Trap would be the same. To me the results are nearly secondary to the performances. To my mind if you get the performances right over a period of time the results will follow.

Trap can't win at this stage. After Friday it was the players that won (drew) the game and zero praise for the manager getting the tactics right against a technically superior team and after last night it was Trap who lost (drew) the game after getting the tactics wrong for 1.08% of the match.

Sweden technically superior - were you watching that game at all ?- Take Ibra out of it and they are very ordinary. I thought we should have won it but was happy with the draw in the totality of the group dynamic.  He got the tactics wrong for approx 30% of the game last night not just the 1.08%.

as some sensible posters stated we just don't have the 1 or 2 players to give us the class and killer edge that we had in the past.

Everyone agrees that we don't have the really top class players that we've had in the past. What I'm arguing is that his approach actually makes it harder for us to progress in a group in which we should be able to finish second given the relative strengths of the teams around us

[nrico2006]

The thing is if Trap made the decisions that were not made and were viewed as the correct ones now and the result still ended up the same the soccer lads would still be whinging and complaining. It would be more or less along the lines that the subs shouldn't have been made.....

Eh that's some conclusion to jump to from the thread following last night's result. Says more about your thinking than it does about those of us who don't reckon he's doing a good job. Read the thread again and tell me where I said that. If we had held on for a 2-1 win my criticisms of Trap would be the same. To me the results are nearly secondary to the performances. To my mind if you get the performances right over a period of time the results will follow.

Trap can't win at this stage. After Friday it was the players that won (drew) the game and zero praise for the manager getting the tactics right against a technically superior team and after last night it was Trap who lost (drew) the game after getting the tactics wrong for 1.08% of the match.

Sweden technically superior - were you watching that game at all ?- Take Ibra out of it and they are very ordinary. I thought we should have won it but was happy with the draw in the totality of the group dynamic.  He got the tactics wrong for approx 30% of the game last night not just the 1.08%.

as some sensible posters stated we just don't have the 1 or 2 players to give us the class and killer edge that we had in the past.

Everyone agrees that we don't have the really top class players that we've had in the past. What I'm arguing is that his approach actually makes it harder for us to progress in a group in which we should be able to finish second given the relative strengths of the teams around us

I'd disagree about Sweden, you would never see Ireland scoring 4 goals against either England or Germany, never mind both of them.

[stew]

Can't believe there are still people defending Trappatoni.

Well I suppose we are a country that will return FF to power after the next election so nothing should surprise me.

Seanie, I think he has done well with what he has however he is out of touch with the players and seem's to half ass it in terms of doing his due diligence in watching players that might help the cause play for their club sides.

Every manager makes mistakes but I tell you what, if a player was as knackered as some of you suggest, he should have it in him to let the gaffer know, you know, for the sake of the team-mates, coaches and fans of the national team etc!

What they are doing being knackered is beyond me at that level, it would be different if it was 90 degree's out, that is unforgivable and the fault of the player and the club he plays for.

[highorlow]

To me the results are nearly secondary to the performances.

So you prefer if we performed well and didn't qualify than qualify playing badly?

Sweden technically superior - were you watching that game at all ?-

Ok, what I meant is 'regarded' as technically superior - i.e. they are ranked 21 in the world we are 40th.

He got the tactics wrong for approx 30% of the game last night

Was that the tactics where the lads were getting tired as you have stated in a previous post? I didn't think tiredness was a tactic. Am I missing something?

What I'm arguing is that his approach actually makes it harder for us to progress in a group in which we should be able to finish second given the relative strengths of the teams around us

I think when the balls were drawn we all feared the worst and that this group would be tight. Look, we are still in this and I think Trap is a poxy manager so he is likely to get 4 wins from the final 4 match's now.

What I'm also dissapointed about along with the result at this stage is Traps poor grasp of the English language, Manuelly was a big mistake by the FAI.

[deiseach]

What I'm also dissapointed about along with the result at this stage is Traps poor grasp of the English language, Manuelly was a big mistake by the FAI.

I think a lot of the venom towards Trappatoni can be put down to the language barrier, and not without good reason. He gives the impression that soccer is a game played in twelve dimensions and if you don't understand what he is doing . . . look towards Manuela, babble, shrug. All these spats with players. Is that down to the language barrier or his cussed nature? It's impossible to know, and not knowing is almost the worst part of it.

[highorlow]

It's impossible to know, and not knowing is almost the worst part of it.

I think in his interview last night he said the lads erection to the first goal was good rather than reaction.