A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[BennyCake]

My daughter attends a Catholic grammar school in the 6 counties.  She arrived home this evening to tell me about a poll their history teacher did today ... Hands up everyone in the class who would vote for a United Ireland in a border poll.  From a class of 26 14/15 year olds, only 4 hands went up in favour of a UI.

She asked me to guess before telling me the answer, I guessed 18 for a UI, a long way off.  The dominant theme for the vast majority of the class not voting in favour of a UI was having to pay to see a doctor in the south.  A rather fickle reason in my opinion, and I do hope this generation of voters will be more in tune with the positives vs the negatives of a UI by the time they get their chance to vote ... which in all likelihood will be in the next 10 years.

By no means a scientific poll, but one which I found a little shocking for a Catholic school in the north.

Depressing. I really have no idea why the pay to see your GP line gets used over and over. It really is nothing in the bigger picture.
I think nationalism needs to do more to educate the public about the benefits of a UI.
"Yes, if you are in employment, you will pay €50 to see a GP. However, you would be earning an extra €10,000 per year."
As well as that, less and less people will be paying to see a GP because of Sláintecare.
You can bet your ass the waiting time discrepancy between North and south is worse now than 10 months ago.

It's another example of how run down the NI has economy has become in the last 100 years.
From once being an industrial powerhouse to being a being a state where welfare and benefits are so precious.

If the kids were asked about whether they would like to live in a country where they could work for a Google, Amazon or a Microsoft, or whether free doctor visits was more important...

Btw. I've been to the doctor once in the last 10 years. How ill are people in the sick counties?

That's great. Think yourself lucky you are healthy. Many are not. So don't look down your nose at people less fortunate than yourself

As for people struggling, I seen one clip today of one woman saying how the £20 cut will affect her and her kids. So it's understandable why the prospect of paying a fee every time you visit a doctor might have untold consequences for struggling families

No. That woman on the news would be on a medical card and wouldn't pay for GP visits anyway. This is the big myth pedalled by unionism, that those on the breadline will be forced to fork over €60 everytime they need to see a Doctor, when it just isn't the case.

Well yes, fair enough. But the point was a £20 a week drop is significant for a  struggling family. Everyday issues like food, heat, clothes has a knockon effect to general health which in the end results in medical issues. And the health service, north and south,  won't always be what  it is now

[Dag Dog]

https://www.ft.com/content/7d5244a0-f22d-11e8-ae55-df4bf40f9d0d

If we go back to Partition in 1921, 80 per cent of the industrial output of the entire island of Ireland came from the six counties that would become Northern Ireland, largely centred on Belfast. This was where all Irish industry was based. Northern Irish entrepreneurs and inventors were at the forefront of industrial innovation. By 1911, Belfast was the biggest city in Ireland and the north-east was by far the richest part of the island.

The collapse of the once-dynamic Northern Irish economy versus that of the Republic is stunning. Having been a fraction of the North's at independence, the Republic's industrial output is now far greater than that of Northern Ireland. Exports of goods and services from the Republic are €282.4bn; total exports from the North stand at a paltry €10.1bn. This obviously reflects the investment of multinationals, but it also underscores just how far ahead is the Republic's industrial base. Producing close to 30 times more exports highlights a vast difference in the globalis­ation of business. In the Republic, one in six people are foreign-born — higher than the UK. In the North it is fewer than one in 20. According to the most comparable international indicators, income per head is now €22,000 in the once wealthy Northern Ireland and €38,000 in the once impoverished Republic of Ireland.

[general_lee]

The biggest issue though is the inbred repugnance of any thing remotely Irish in the loyalist fringes. You only have to watch Paddy Kielty's documentary on NI100 to see that its being handed on. This stops them embracing any type of cross border co-operation even if it benefits NI. How do you address that and avoid escalating violence?

Loyalists are perhaps the most politically unintelligible group of people in Europe. Certainly in the UK. These are people who don't care about real issues. Everything is secondary to their culture and the constitutional status of NI.

[Farrandeelin]

My daughter attends a Catholic grammar school in the 6 counties.  She arrived home this evening to tell me about a poll their history teacher did today ... Hands up everyone in the class who would vote for a United Ireland in a border poll.  From a class of 26 14/15 year olds, only 4 hands went up in favour of a UI.

She asked me to guess before telling me the answer, I guessed 18 for a UI, a long way off.  The dominant theme for the vast majority of the class not voting in favour of a UI was having to pay to see a doctor in the south.  A rather fickle reason in my opinion, and I do hope this generation of voters will be more in tune with the positives vs the negatives of a UI by the time they get their chance to vote ... which in all likelihood will be in the next 10 years.

By no means a scientific poll, but one which I found a little shocking for a Catholic school in the north.

Depressing. I really have no idea why the pay to see your GP line gets used over and over. It really is nothing in the bigger picture.
I think nationalism needs to do more to educate the public about the benefits of a UI.
"Yes, if you are in employment, you will pay €50 to see a GP. However, you would be earning an extra €10,000 per year."
As well as that, less and less people will be paying to see a GP because of Sláintecare.
You can bet your ass the waiting time discrepancy between North and south is worse now than 10 months ago.

It's another example of how run down the NI has economy has become in the last 100 years.
From once being an industrial powerhouse to being a being a state where welfare and benefits are so precious.

If the kids were asked about whether they would like to live in a country where they could work for a Google, Amazon or a Microsoft, or whether free doctor visits was more important...

Btw. I've been to the doctor once in the last 10 years. How ill are people in the sick counties?

Your last paragraph sorta sums up my father-in-law's sentiments. "If people had to pay, they wouldn't be going in for minor aches and pains".

[Armagh18]

My daughter attends a Catholic grammar school in the 6 counties.  She arrived home this evening to tell me about a poll their history teacher did today ... Hands up everyone in the class who would vote for a United Ireland in a border poll.  From a class of 26 14/15 year olds, only 4 hands went up in favour of a UI.

She asked me to guess before telling me the answer, I guessed 18 for a UI, a long way off.  The dominant theme for the vast majority of the class not voting in favour of a UI was having to pay to see a doctor in the south.  A rather fickle reason in my opinion, and I do hope this generation of voters will be more in tune with the positives vs the negatives of a UI by the time they get their chance to vote ... which in all likelihood will be in the next 10 years.

By no means a scientific poll, but one which I found a little shocking for a Catholic school in the north.

Depressing. I really have no idea why the pay to see your GP line gets used over and over. It really is nothing in the bigger picture.
I think nationalism needs to do more to educate the public about the benefits of a UI.
"Yes, if you are in employment, you will pay €50 to see a GP. However, you would be earning an extra €10,000 per year."
As well as that, less and less people will be paying to see a GP because of Sláintecare.
You can bet your ass the waiting time discrepancy between North and south is worse now than 10 months ago.

It's another example of how run down the NI has economy has become in the last 100 years.
From once being an industrial powerhouse to being a being a state where welfare and benefits are so precious.

If the kids were asked about whether they would like to live in a country where they could work for a Google, Amazon or a Microsoft, or whether free doctor visits was more important...

Btw. I've been to the doctor once in the last 10 years. How ill are people in the sick counties?

Your last paragraph sorta sums up my father-in-law's sentiments. "If people had to pay, they wouldn't be going in for minor aches and pains".

He has a good point.

[Saffrongael]

Half the people going to GPs in 6 counties with the sole purpose of building medical history for DLA

[RedHand88]

My daughter attends a Catholic grammar school in the 6 counties.  She arrived home this evening to tell me about a poll their history teacher did today ... Hands up everyone in the class who would vote for a United Ireland in a border poll.  From a class of 26 14/15 year olds, only 4 hands went up in favour of a UI.

She asked me to guess before telling me the answer, I guessed 18 for a UI, a long way off.  The dominant theme for the vast majority of the class not voting in favour of a UI was having to pay to see a doctor in the south.  A rather fickle reason in my opinion, and I do hope this generation of voters will be more in tune with the positives vs the negatives of a UI by the time they get their chance to vote ... which in all likelihood will be in the next 10 years.

By no means a scientific poll, but one which I found a little shocking for a Catholic school in the north.

Depressing. I really have no idea why the pay to see your GP line gets used over and over. It really is nothing in the bigger picture.
I think nationalism needs to do more to educate the public about the benefits of a UI.
"Yes, if you are in employment, you will pay €50 to see a GP. However, you would be earning an extra €10,000 per year."
As well as that, less and less people will be paying to see a GP because of Sláintecare.
You can bet your ass the waiting time discrepancy between North and south is worse now than 10 months ago.

It's another example of how run down the NI has economy has become in the last 100 years.
From once being an industrial powerhouse to being a being a state where welfare and benefits are so precious.

If the kids were asked about whether they would like to live in a country where they could work for a Google, Amazon or a Microsoft, or whether free doctor visits was more important...

Btw. I've been to the doctor once in the last 10 years. How ill are people in the sick counties?

Your last paragraph sorta sums up my father-in-law's sentiments. "If people had to pay, they wouldn't be going in for minor aches and pains".

This is a very common point of view up here.

[armaghniac]

It is a bit shocking in a grammar school. You'd expect grammar school students would want to be doctors, not worried about the cost of going to one.

[Applesisapples]

The biggest issue though is the inbred repugnance of any thing remotely Irish in the loyalist fringes. You only have to watch Paddy Kielty's documentary on NI100 to see that its being handed on. This stops them embracing any type of cross border co-operation even if it benefits NI. How do you address that and avoid escalating violence?

Loyalists are perhaps the most politically unintelligible group of people in Europe. Certainly in the UK. These are people who don't care about real issues. Everything is secondary to their culture and the constitutional status of NI.

and Bonfires of course!

[Main Street]

The biggest issue though is the inbred repugnance of any thing remotely Irish in the loyalist fringes. You only have to watch Paddy Kielty's documentary on NI100 to see that its being handed on. This stops them embracing any type of cross border co-operation even if it benefits NI. How do you address that and avoid escalating violence?

Loyalists are perhaps the most politically unintelligible group of people in Europe. Certainly in the UK. These are people who don't care about real issues. Everything is secondary to their culture and the constitutional status of NI.

Even so, the level of ignorance and repugnance did come as a shock (to an innocent southern northerner) when landing into a NI Centenary web page such as this
https://twitter.com/NICentenary2021?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/is-britain-now-pushing-for-a-post-brexit-border-in-the-celtic-sea-1.4701570?mode=amp

Of course there is another way forward – a united Ireland following a border poll, all inside the EU single market.
And if the current drama does develop into a serious crisis, then it can only add to the political push for a poll to happen, even if a lot of the groundwork for reunification remains unfinished.

Perhaps this will all settle for now if some kind of UK/EU deal can be done – and the EU has offered more than the UK will have expected. Let's hope so. But you wouldn't bet on it. The Pandora's box opened by Brexit is not going to shut any time soon.

[seafoid]

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/reunification-of-ireland-is-close-says-top-economist-posen-40920667.html

The reunification of Ireland will take place "within five to 10 years" because the conflict between politics and the economy under the NI Protocol is not sustainable, an economist has said.

Dr Adam S Posen, president of the Peterson Institute for International Economics, said he believed there was "no good option" for the future of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic. 

[armaghniac]

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/reunification-of-ireland-is-close-says-top-economist-posen-40920667.html

The reunification of Ireland will take place "within five to 10 years" because the conflict between politics and the economy under the NI Protocol is not sustainable, an economist has said.

Dr Adam S Posen, president of the Peterson Institute for International Economics, said he believed there was "no good option" for the future of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

Posen's point is that for NI to have the "best of both worlds" under the NI Protocol required "political maturity" and it won't get it. So the Protocol setup could lead to benefits for NI but London and the Unionists will sabotage this.
In its first year, that seems a reasonable characterisation of events so far.

[HiMucker]

Gone copy and paste that article in seafoid please?

[BennyCake]

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/reunification-of-ireland-is-close-says-top-economist-posen-40920667.html

The reunification of Ireland will take place "within five to 10 years" because the conflict between politics and the economy under the NI Protocol is not sustainable, an economist has said.

Dr Adam S Posen, president of the Peterson Institute for International Economics, said he believed there was "no good option" for the future of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

Posen's point is that for NI to have the "best of both worlds" under the NI Protocol required "political maturity" and it won't get it. So the Protocol setup could lead to benefits for NI but London and the Unionists will sabotage this.
In its first year, that seems a reasonable characterisation of events so far.

What do we want?
- to pay more tax on sausages
When do we want it?
- Now!

The gerrymandered statelet could become an economic boomtown. But no, we can't be having that! A basket case it is, and a basket case it shall remain.