Author Topic: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.  (Read 261070 times)

seafoid

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3495 on: October 17, 2021, 04:28:54 AM »
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/reunification-of-ireland-is-close-says-top-economist-posen-40920667.html

The reunification of Ireland will take place “within five to 10 years” because the conflict between politics and the economy under the NI Protocol is not sustainable, an economist has said.

Dr Adam S Posen, president of the Peterson Institute for International Economics, said he believed there was “no good option” for the future of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic. 
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armaghniac

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3496 on: October 17, 2021, 02:00:07 PM »
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/reunification-of-ireland-is-close-says-top-economist-posen-40920667.html

The reunification of Ireland will take place “within five to 10 years” because the conflict between politics and the economy under the NI Protocol is not sustainable, an economist has said.

Dr Adam S Posen, president of the Peterson Institute for International Economics, said he believed there was “no good option” for the future of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

Posen's point is that for NI to have the “best of both worlds” under the NI Protocol required “political maturity” and it won't get it. So the Protocol setup could lead to benefits for NI but London and the Unionists will sabotage this.
In its first year, that seems a reasonable characterisation of events so far.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

HiMucker

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3497 on: October 17, 2021, 05:37:30 PM »
Gone copy and paste that article in seafoid please?

BennyCake

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3498 on: October 17, 2021, 06:52:23 PM »
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/reunification-of-ireland-is-close-says-top-economist-posen-40920667.html

The reunification of Ireland will take place “within five to 10 years” because the conflict between politics and the economy under the NI Protocol is not sustainable, an economist has said.

Dr Adam S Posen, president of the Peterson Institute for International Economics, said he believed there was “no good option” for the future of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

Posen's point is that for NI to have the “best of both worlds” under the NI Protocol required “political maturity” and it won't get it. So the Protocol setup could lead to benefits for NI but London and the Unionists will sabotage this.
In its first year, that seems a reasonable characterisation of events so far.

What do we want?
- to pay more tax on sausages
When do we want it?
- Now!

The gerrymandered statelet could become an economic boomtown. But no, we can’t be having that! A basket case it is, and a basket case it shall remain.

Rossfan

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3499 on: October 17, 2021, 07:10:24 PM »
Has to be like "the rest of the UK" ;)
Remember we're a noble race from a land where Kings once trod.

Farrandeelin

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3500 on: October 22, 2021, 07:26:54 AM »
Has to be like "the rest of the UK" ;)

Sin é. In the eyes of wee Sammy and smug Jeffrey that trumps everything.
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Rossfan

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3501 on: October 22, 2021, 09:23:02 AM »
Once it's not Abortion laws or bilingual Road signs of course!
Remember we're a noble race from a land where Kings once trod.

Armagh18

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3502 on: October 22, 2021, 10:09:18 AM »
Only our rivers run free up to number 1 on itunes charts apparently. Things you love to see.

seafoid

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3503 on: October 22, 2021, 10:12:41 AM »
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/reunification-of-ireland-is-close-says-top-economist-posen-40920667.html

The reunification of Ireland will take place “within five to 10 years” because the conflict between politics and the economy under the NI Protocol is not sustainable, an economist has said.

Dr Adam S Posen, president of the Peterson Institute for International Economics, said he believed there was “no good option” for the future of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

Posen's point is that for NI to have the “best of both worlds” under the NI Protocol required “political maturity” and it won't get it. So the Protocol setup could lead to benefits for NI but London and the Unionists will sabotage this.
In its first year, that seems a reasonable characterisation of events so far.
10 years is too early imo.
But things fall apart sooner than things are  ready
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tbrick18

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3505 on: October 22, 2021, 11:34:44 AM »
I think we need to learn the lessons of Brexit.....don't vote for something without understanding the implications of what is being voted for.
A lot of work needs to be done on all sides of the debate to get a true picture of what a UI would look like in terms of economics, education and health.
The problem we have as that current political unionism refuse to even explore what a UI would look like and what it would mean for the unionist tradition. I think a lot of reasoning behind that is disingenuous - the whole "part of the UK" stance is a way to keep themselves in power.
I think when it comes to it, the majority of people will vote based on economics and health. Will they be better off financially and will they get better health care in a UI.
I think before a vote can take place all of those issues need to be addresses with an agreement in principal around what would happen and on what timescale should a UI vote win through.
There will still be people who vote for and against regardless of the detail, but I believe the vote will be won or lost on the "sensible" voters who base their vote on practical information.

HiMucker

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3506 on: October 22, 2021, 12:37:57 PM »
I think we need to learn the lessons of Brexit.....don't vote for something without understanding the implications of what is being voted for.
A lot of work needs to be done on all sides of the debate to get a true picture of what a UI would look like in terms of economics, education and health.
The problem we have as that current political unionism refuse to even explore what a UI would look like and what it would mean for the unionist tradition. I think a lot of reasoning behind that is disingenuous - the whole "part of the UK" stance is a way to keep themselves in power.
I think when it comes to it, the majority of people will vote based on economics and health. Will they be better off financially and will they get better health care in a UI.
I think before a vote can take place all of those issues need to be addresses with an agreement in principal around what would happen and on what timescale should a UI vote win through.
There will still be people who vote for and against regardless of the detail, but I believe the vote will be won or lost on the "sensible" voters who base their vote on practical information.
Just on that bit Tbrick, I understand what you mean. However I don't know if Unionists realise or maybe it is that they don't care, as everything other than keeping the union is secondary to them, but they would actually have even more power in a unified Ireland. They would have even more say in the north of the country and they would even have a say in the rest of the country, and probably even a greater influence on the European stage.

seafoid

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3507 on: October 22, 2021, 12:39:20 PM »
I think we need to learn the lessons of Brexit.....don't vote for something without understanding the implications of what is being voted for.
A lot of work needs to be done on all sides of the debate to get a true picture of what a UI would look like in terms of economics, education and health.
The problem we have as that current political unionism refuse to even explore what a UI would look like and what it would mean for the unionist tradition. I think a lot of reasoning behind that is disingenuous - the whole "part of the UK" stance is a way to keep themselves in power.
I think when it comes to it, the majority of people will vote based on economics and health. Will they be better off financially and will they get better health care in a UI.
I think before a vote can take place all of those issues need to be addresses with an agreement in principal around what would happen and on what timescale should a UI vote win through.
There will still be people who vote for and against regardless of the detail, but I believe the vote will be won or lost on the "sensible" voters who base their vote on practical information.
The abortion vote was done very well. A citizens assembly of 100 was drawn together to go through all of the issues peacefully and thoroughly.
Once their work was done the conclusions were made available. The vote was calm . It could have gone arseways otherwise.

Something similar would need to be done for reunification plus the appropriate institutions would need to be built.
The Brits threw money at the troubles post 97. Reunification is going to need a lot of money.
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JPGJOHNNYG

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3508 on: October 22, 2021, 12:46:38 PM »
I think we need to learn the lessons of Brexit.....don't vote for something without understanding the implications of what is being voted for.
A lot of work needs to be done on all sides of the debate to get a true picture of what a UI would look like in terms of economics, education and health.
The problem we have as that current political unionism refuse to even explore what a UI would look like and what it would mean for the unionist tradition. I think a lot of reasoning behind that is disingenuous - the whole "part of the UK" stance is a way to keep themselves in power.
I think when it comes to it, the majority of people will vote based on economics and health. Will they be better off financially and will they get better health care in a UI.
I think before a vote can take place all of those issues need to be addresses with an agreement in principal around what would happen and on what timescale should a UI vote win through.
There will still be people who vote for and against regardless of the detail, but I believe the vote will be won or lost on the "sensible" voters who base their vote on practical information.

Unfortunately most unionists wont. Its a flag and thats it. The NHS keeps getting mentioned as the reason to keep the union. The same NHS that is f@cked especially in northern ireland and again unfortunately plenty of suppossed nationalists swallow the shite.

seafoid

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3509 on: October 22, 2021, 01:20:57 PM »
I think we need to learn the lessons of Brexit.....don't vote for something without understanding the implications of what is being voted for.
A lot of work needs to be done on all sides of the debate to get a true picture of what a UI would look like in terms of economics, education and health.
The problem we have as that current political unionism refuse to even explore what a UI would look like and what it would mean for the unionist tradition. I think a lot of reasoning behind that is disingenuous - the whole "part of the UK" stance is a way to keep themselves in power.
I think when it comes to it, the majority of people will vote based on economics and health. Will they be better off financially and will they get better health care in a UI.
I think before a vote can take place all of those issues need to be addresses with an agreement in principal around what would happen and on what timescale should a UI vote win through.
There will still be people who vote for and against regardless of the detail, but I believe the vote will be won or lost on the "sensible" voters who base their vote on practical information.
I think addressing NI productivity could be the key to getting Unionists on board. The Union was a disaster for the NI economy once the heavy industry of shipbuilding etc went tits up.
Ulster should not be poor. If it had a similar model to Leinster and Munster things would be much better.

Unfortunately most unionists wont. Its a flag and thats it. The NHS keeps getting mentioned as the reason to keep the union. The same NHS that is f@cked especially in northern ireland and again unfortunately plenty of suppossed nationalists swallow the shite.
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