A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

Started by winghalfback, May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

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Mikhail Prokhorov

Quote from: armaghniac on October 05, 2021, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on October 05, 2021, 03:10:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 05, 2021, 09:51:58 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on October 05, 2021, 12:31:46 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 05, 2021, 12:25:18 AM
My daughter attends a Catholic grammar school in the 6 counties.  She arrived home this evening to tell me about a poll their history teacher did today ... Hands up everyone in the class who would vote for a United Ireland in a border poll.  From a class of 26, only 4 hands went up in favour of a UI.

She asked me to guess before telling me the answer, I guessed 18, a long way off.  The dominant theme for the vast majority of the class not voting in favour of a UI was having to pay to see a doctor in the south.  A rather fickle reason in my opinion, and I do hope this generation of voters will be more in tune with the positives vs the negatives of a UI by the time they get their chance to vote ... which in all likelihood will be in the next 10 years.

By no means a scientific poll, but one which I found a little shocking for a Catholic school in the north.
Selling out their identity and the reunification of their country over the price of a doctors appointment (which we may not even have to pay anyway), embarrassing.

It's 14/15 year olds we're talking about here, who let's face it, don't know much about the real world. Just like everyone else when we were that age.

But it is a good point re: medical fees.

But instead of focusing on perceived disadvantages of a UI,  maybe we could throw open the floor to the perceived advantages, to everyday life for us in the north?

Do they pay National Insurance down South? I am out a hell of a lot of money for the "free NHS" service, even at 50quid a doctors visit I would be better off that way

For a person on average wages, the national insurance in the occupied territories is alomost £1000 more than anyone in the 26 counties pays. A unified government could collect this and offer "free" health to everyone without any problem.

why would this be a surprise to anyone?

the kids are echoing their parents views

the vast majority in the north, including most catholics, support the status quo

unionists are so dumb though that they won't go for a border poll, it would be won by them in a landslide

uimhr ocht

Next years census results will be interesting regarding the status quo,it depends what county your 16 year old teenage lives in also,most teenagers play Gaa  and are intelligent enough to know to be part of EU IRE would be better than conservative run britain.

armaghniac

Quote from: uimhr ocht on October 05, 2021, 09:32:59 PM
Next years census results will be interesting regarding the status quo,it depends what county your 16 year old teenage lives in also,most teenagers play Gaa  and are intelligent enough to know to be part of EU IRE would be better than conservative run britain.

the level of thought and debate on the issue can be incredibly superficial.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

A UI would have to manage the North 's problems better than the Union with GB does.
How likely is that?

The North has high poverty levels and low productivity. Plus trauma.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Rossfan

Are Social welfare payments in the North being cut by £20 per week ?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

tiempo

Quote from: seafoid on October 06, 2021, 09:03:31 AM
A UI would have to manage the North 's problems better than the Union with GB does.
How likely is that?

The North has high poverty levels and low productivity. Plus trauma.

Reparations for starters

Armagh18

Quote from: Rossfan on October 06, 2021, 04:31:09 PM
Are Social welfare payments in the North being cut by £20 per week ?
People on universal credit were getting an extra £20 a week since covid are now not getting the extra £20.

Meanwhile every industry in the country is crying out for staff.

general_lee

Quote from: Armagh18 on October 06, 2021, 04:52:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 06, 2021, 04:31:09 PM
Are Social welfare payments in the North being cut by £20 per week ?
People on universal credit were getting an extra £20 a week since covid are now not getting the extra £20.

Meanwhile every industry in the country is crying out for staff.
I don't think you understand what UC actually is.

Armagh18

Quote from: general_lee on October 06, 2021, 09:21:52 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 06, 2021, 04:52:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 06, 2021, 04:31:09 PM
Are Social welfare payments in the North being cut by £20 per week ?
People on universal credit were getting an extra £20 a week since covid are now not getting the extra £20.

Meanwhile every industry in the country is crying out for staff.
I don't think you understand what UC actually is.
Free money?

Dag Dog

Quote from: RedHand88 on October 05, 2021, 09:06:24 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 05, 2021, 12:25:18 AM
My daughter attends a Catholic grammar school in the 6 counties.  She arrived home this evening to tell me about a poll their history teacher did today ... Hands up everyone in the class who would vote for a United Ireland in a border poll.  From a class of 26 14/15 year olds, only 4 hands went up in favour of a UI.

She asked me to guess before telling me the answer, I guessed 18 for a UI, a long way off.  The dominant theme for the vast majority of the class not voting in favour of a UI was having to pay to see a doctor in the south.  A rather fickle reason in my opinion, and I do hope this generation of voters will be more in tune with the positives vs the negatives of a UI by the time they get their chance to vote ... which in all likelihood will be in the next 10 years.

By no means a scientific poll, but one which I found a little shocking for a Catholic school in the north.

Depressing. I really have no idea why the pay to see your GP line gets used over and over. It really is nothing in the bigger picture.
I think nationalism needs to do more to educate the public about the benefits of a UI.
"Yes, if you are in employment, you will pay €50 to see a GP. However, you would be earning an extra €10,000 per year."
As well as that, less and less people will be paying to see a GP because of Sláintecare.
You can bet your ass the waiting time discrepancy between North and south is worse now than 10 months ago.

It's another example of how run down the NI has economy has become in the last 100 years.
From once being an industrial powerhouse to being a being a state where welfare and benefits are so precious.

If the kids were asked about whether they would like to live in a country where they could work for a Google, Amazon or a Microsoft, or whether free doctor visits was more important...

Btw. I've been to the doctor once in the last 10 years. How ill are people in the sick counties?


grounded

Quote from: balladmaker on October 05, 2021, 12:25:18 AM
My daughter attends a Catholic grammar school in the 6 counties.  She arrived home this evening to tell me about a poll their history teacher did today ... Hands up everyone in the class who would vote for a United Ireland in a border poll.  From a class of 26 14/15 year olds, only 4 hands went up in favour of a UI.

She asked me to guess before telling me the answer, I guessed 18 for a UI, a long way off.  The dominant theme for the vast majority of the class not voting in favour of a UI was having to pay to see a doctor in the south.  A rather fickle reason in my opinion, and I do hope this generation of voters will be more in tune with the positives vs the negatives of a UI by the time they get their chance to vote ... which in all likelihood will be in the next 10 years.

By no means a scientific poll, but one which I found a little shocking for a Catholic school in the north.

I'm amazed that's not already up in Ben Lowry's Twitter account!

BennyCake

Quote from: Dag Dog on October 06, 2021, 10:16:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 05, 2021, 09:06:24 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 05, 2021, 12:25:18 AM
My daughter attends a Catholic grammar school in the 6 counties.  She arrived home this evening to tell me about a poll their history teacher did today ... Hands up everyone in the class who would vote for a United Ireland in a border poll.  From a class of 26 14/15 year olds, only 4 hands went up in favour of a UI.

She asked me to guess before telling me the answer, I guessed 18 for a UI, a long way off.  The dominant theme for the vast majority of the class not voting in favour of a UI was having to pay to see a doctor in the south.  A rather fickle reason in my opinion, and I do hope this generation of voters will be more in tune with the positives vs the negatives of a UI by the time they get their chance to vote ... which in all likelihood will be in the next 10 years.

By no means a scientific poll, but one which I found a little shocking for a Catholic school in the north.

Depressing. I really have no idea why the pay to see your GP line gets used over and over. It really is nothing in the bigger picture.
I think nationalism needs to do more to educate the public about the benefits of a UI.
"Yes, if you are in employment, you will pay €50 to see a GP. However, you would be earning an extra €10,000 per year."
As well as that, less and less people will be paying to see a GP because of Sláintecare.
You can bet your ass the waiting time discrepancy between North and south is worse now than 10 months ago.

It's another example of how run down the NI has economy has become in the last 100 years.
From once being an industrial powerhouse to being a being a state where welfare and benefits are so precious.

If the kids were asked about whether they would like to live in a country where they could work for a Google, Amazon or a Microsoft, or whether free doctor visits was more important...

Btw. I've been to the doctor once in the last 10 years. How ill are people in the sick counties?

That's great. Think yourself lucky you are healthy. Many are not. So don't look down your nose at people less fortunate than yourself

As for people struggling, I seen one clip today of one woman saying how the £20 cut will affect her and her kids. So it's understandable why the prospect of paying a fee every time you visit a doctor might have untold consequences for struggling families

Dag Dog

Quote from: BennyCake on October 06, 2021, 10:41:43 PM
Quote from: Dag Dog on October 06, 2021, 10:16:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 05, 2021, 09:06:24 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 05, 2021, 12:25:18 AM
My daughter attends a Catholic grammar school in the 6 counties.  She arrived home this evening to tell me about a poll their history teacher did today ... Hands up everyone in the class who would vote for a United Ireland in a border poll.  From a class of 26 14/15 year olds, only 4 hands went up in favour of a UI.

She asked me to guess before telling me the answer, I guessed 18 for a UI, a long way off.  The dominant theme for the vast majority of the class not voting in favour of a UI was having to pay to see a doctor in the south.  A rather fickle reason in my opinion, and I do hope this generation of voters will be more in tune with the positives vs the negatives of a UI by the time they get their chance to vote ... which in all likelihood will be in the next 10 years.

By no means a scientific poll, but one which I found a little shocking for a Catholic school in the north.

Depressing. I really have no idea why the pay to see your GP line gets used over and over. It really is nothing in the bigger picture.
I think nationalism needs to do more to educate the public about the benefits of a UI.
"Yes, if you are in employment, you will pay €50 to see a GP. However, you would be earning an extra €10,000 per year."
As well as that, less and less people will be paying to see a GP because of Sláintecare.
You can bet your ass the waiting time discrepancy between North and south is worse now than 10 months ago.

It's another example of how run down the NI has economy has become in the last 100 years.
From once being an industrial powerhouse to being a being a state where welfare and benefits are so precious.

If the kids were asked about whether they would like to live in a country where they could work for a Google, Amazon or a Microsoft, or whether free doctor visits was more important...

Btw. I've been to the doctor once in the last 10 years. How ill are people in the sick counties?

That's great. Think yourself lucky you are healthy. Many are not. So don't look down your nose at people less fortunate than yourself

As for people struggling, I seen one clip today of one woman saying how the £20 cut will affect her and her kids. So it's understandable why the prospect of paying a fee every time you visit a doctor might have untold consequences for struggling families
The dole is a lot higher in the South and people who are low earners get medical cover anyway.


RedHand88

Quote from: BennyCake on October 06, 2021, 10:41:43 PM
Quote from: Dag Dog on October 06, 2021, 10:16:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 05, 2021, 09:06:24 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 05, 2021, 12:25:18 AM
My daughter attends a Catholic grammar school in the 6 counties.  She arrived home this evening to tell me about a poll their history teacher did today ... Hands up everyone in the class who would vote for a United Ireland in a border poll.  From a class of 26 14/15 year olds, only 4 hands went up in favour of a UI.

She asked me to guess before telling me the answer, I guessed 18 for a UI, a long way off.  The dominant theme for the vast majority of the class not voting in favour of a UI was having to pay to see a doctor in the south.  A rather fickle reason in my opinion, and I do hope this generation of voters will be more in tune with the positives vs the negatives of a UI by the time they get their chance to vote ... which in all likelihood will be in the next 10 years.

By no means a scientific poll, but one which I found a little shocking for a Catholic school in the north.

Depressing. I really have no idea why the pay to see your GP line gets used over and over. It really is nothing in the bigger picture.
I think nationalism needs to do more to educate the public about the benefits of a UI.
"Yes, if you are in employment, you will pay €50 to see a GP. However, you would be earning an extra €10,000 per year."
As well as that, less and less people will be paying to see a GP because of Sláintecare.
You can bet your ass the waiting time discrepancy between North and south is worse now than 10 months ago.

It's another example of how run down the NI has economy has become in the last 100 years.
From once being an industrial powerhouse to being a being a state where welfare and benefits are so precious.

If the kids were asked about whether they would like to live in a country where they could work for a Google, Amazon or a Microsoft, or whether free doctor visits was more important...

Btw. I've been to the doctor once in the last 10 years. How ill are people in the sick counties?

That's great. Think yourself lucky you are healthy. Many are not. So don't look down your nose at people less fortunate than yourself

As for people struggling, I seen one clip today of one woman saying how the £20 cut will affect her and her kids. So it's understandable why the prospect of paying a fee every time you visit a doctor might have untold consequences for struggling families

No. That woman on the news would be on a medical card and wouldn't pay for GP visits anyway. This is the big myth pedalled by unionism, that those on the breadline will be forced to fork over €60 everytime they need to see a Doctor, when it just isn't the case.

Applesisapples

Reading this thread reveals a lot of ignorance of the Southern Health system in the northern contributors, myself included. There is no doubt that those espousing unity will need to address how the health system in a UI would work. That said there is a lot of inefficiency in the HSC in the North and especially around border areas economies could be made which would improve health care in border counties in both jurisdictions. The biggest issue though is the inbred repugnance of any thing remotely Irish in the loyalist fringes. You only have to watch Paddy Kielty's documentary on NI100 to see that its being handed on. This stops them embracing any type of cross border co-operation even if it benefits NI. How do you address that and avoid escalating violence?