Derry Club Football & Hurling original

[restorepride]

How much stock can we really put in an average Bellaghy side winning an unofficial minor tournament? A lot of people getting carried away.

It is an official competition sanctioned by the Ulster council. Bellaghy thoroughly outplayed every side they met in Ulster and their closest challengers were from within our own county. I think this is encouraging.

I notice in todays paper that this competition is classed as a tournament

What paper?

[Sheugh Water]

How much stock can we really put in an average Bellaghy side winning an unofficial minor tournament? A lot of people getting carried away.

It is an official competition sanctioned by the Ulster council. Bellaghy thoroughly outplayed every side they met in Ulster and their closest challengers were from within our own county. I think this is encouraging.

I notice in todays paper that this competition is classed as a tournament

I think it is. Same as the Screen hurling one. Not recognised as official competitions by GAA.

[In hiding]

How much stock can we really put in an average Bellaghy side winning an unofficial minor tournament? A lot of people getting carried away.

It is an official competition sanctioned by the Ulster council. Bellaghy thoroughly outplayed every side they met in Ulster and their closest challengers were from within our own county. I think this is encouraging.

I notice in todays paper that this competition is classed as a tournament

I think it is. Same as the Screen hurling one. Not recognised as official competitions by GAA.

Whether it is a tournament or a competition, whether it is sanctioned or not, it is the pinnacle of club u18 football in Ulster and every club would love to win it

[Sheugh Water]

How much stock can we really put in an average Bellaghy side winning an unofficial minor tournament? A lot of people getting carried away.

It is an official competition sanctioned by the Ulster council. Bellaghy thoroughly outplayed every side they met in Ulster and their closest challengers were from within our own county. I think this is encouraging.

I notice in todays paper that this competition is classed as a tournament

I think it is. Same as the Screen hurling one. Not recognised as official competitions by GAA.

Whether it is a tournament or a competition, whether it is sanctioned or not, it is the pinnacle of club u18 football in Ulster and every club would love to win it

didnt say it wasnt

[Waataboutyee]

How much stock can we really put in an average Bellaghy side winning an unofficial minor tournament? A lot of people getting carried away.

It is an official competition sanctioned by the Ulster council. Bellaghy thoroughly outplayed every side they met in Ulster and their closest challengers were from within our own county. I think this is encouraging.

I notice in todays paper that this competition is classed as a tournament

I think it is. Same as the Screen hurling one. Not recognised as official competitions by GAA.

Whether it is a tournament or a competition, whether it is sanctioned or not, it is the pinnacle of club u18 football in Ulster and every club would love to win it

didnt say it wasnt

Well then whats your point? Tournament/Competition who really cares. Its a brilliant run competetournament and the best minor teams in Ulster compete in it each year.

[Waataboutyee]

How much stock can we really put in an average Bellaghy side winning an unofficial minor tournament? A lot of people getting carried away.

Lets give bellaghy credit. by all accounts they blew cross away and as a club they are on the rise again

Good idea taking that post down greenlight.

[Estimator]

Off work for a few days over the Christmas Hols. I've followed Bellaghy's journey and success through twitter and videos from Jerome Quinn.  I've also been reading a few articles recently about Gweedore and their underage success which has fed into the senior side.  As well as that Mal McMullan tweeted about Derry's success in the Ulster Minor Club Comp. 

I decided to look further into the correlation between minor success and senior success. If we look at some of the Derry clubs that have also won the Ulster Minor Tournament, there is a clear correlation to triumph for the Senior teams.

Dungiven
Ulster Minor Champs: 1990 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 1997
County Champions: 1991 & 1997

Bellaghy
Ulster Minor Champs: 1991 & 1994 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 1994 (Finalists '96, 98, 05)
County Champions: 1994, '96, '98, '99, 00, '05 (Finalists: '95, '01, '03)

An Lub
Ulster Minor Champs: 1993 & 1995 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 2003 (Finalists '09)
County Champions: 2003 & 2009 (Finalists: 2002, '05, '06)

Ballinderry
Ulster Minor Champ: '96, '97, '01 & 08 ; Ulster Senior Champs: '01 & '13 (Finalists '06, '08)
County Champions: 1995, '01, '06, '08, 2011-13 (Finalists: '99,'00, '03, '10, '14)

Slaughtneil
Ulster Minor Champ: '98 ; Ulster Senior Champs: '14, '16, '17
County Champions: 2004, '14, '15, '16, '17 (Finalists: '08, '12)

Kilrea
Ulster Minor Champs: 2007
County Finalists: 2011

Of the Derry winners in the St Paul's tournament only Kilrea have yet to make the breakthrough at senior level.

Even looking at sides that have won the county minor title, an appearance in the Senior County final normally follows as well. Since the year 2000 the following teams have played in the county final:
Bellaghy (W2 L3), Ballinderry (W7 L4), An Lub (W2 L4), Slaughtneil (W5 L2), Glenullin (W1), Dungiven (L1), Coleraine (W2 L1), Kilrea (L1), Ballinascreen (L2), Lavey (L1)

Most of those teams have had victories in minor and u21 competitions prior to their appearance in the senior final. I believe only Glenullin and Coleraine didn't win county titles at either those two age groups.

The sides that have won minor or u21 (recently) and haven't made an appearance (yet) in a senior county final are Magherafelt and Glen.

Which takes me on to another comparison. Between the two most recent winners of the Ulster U21 tournament. Gweedore and Glen.  Glen won the competition three consecutive years prior to Gweedore's win.

There was a lot of emphasis on the age profile of the Gweedore side that won the senior championship and how that was the impetus for their senior side. Looking at Gweedore's victory in the Ulster Club C'ship, would those in Glen not wonder why they haven't reached a County Final (Yet) never mind a winning the Senior Ulster Club.

The Gweedore side that won the U21 title in Feb:

Gaoth Dobhair: Charles Doherty; Ciaran McHugh; Gary McFadden; Ryan Kelly; Conor McCafferty; Niall Friel; Neasán Mac Gíolla Bhride; Michael Carroll; Odhran McFadden-Ferry; Naoise Ó Baoill; Cian Mulligan; Daire Ó Baoill ; Seaghan Ferry; Gavin McBride; Eamonn Collum
Subs:
Conor Boyle

The Gweedore side that won the Seamus McFerran:
GAOTH DOBHAIR: Christopher Sweeney; Gary McFadden, Neil McGee, Christopher McFadden; Niall Friel, Eamonn McGee, Odhran McFadden-Ferry; Daire O Baoill, Odhran MacNiallais; Cian Mulligan, Naoise O Baoill, Daniel McBride; Eamonn Collum, Kevin Cassidy, Micheal Carroll
Subs: J Carroll, S Ferry, P McGee, J Boyle

I'm open to correction, but that's 8 players that started both finals. And one that came off the bench in the Senior Final. That is some influx of young players into the senior side in one season. Which is some achievement for the club.  I'd say if you compared the U-21 winning sides from Glen with the team that played against Lavey in the senior semi-final this year, you'd find a similar scenario.

Glen's underage trophy cabinet compares favourably with Gweedore's, and those lads would be further down the line in terms of playing senior football.  Is there a reason why their underage success translated into senior success? (yet)

What other factors come into play?

I know that TFAL is all about tradition and history playing a part.  Teams that have a history of winning or have players that know how to win.  McEntee also alludes to that in his Irish News column today.  Its also been referenced on the main Ulster Minor Club thread.

The loss of talent (ie Conor Glass) can play a part too.  Whether that be to University, drinking in Belfast, losing interest, moving away, Job, marriage etc.  Are there other talented players from those successful sides that have been lost to any of the above?

Age profile of the team – "The right mix of players" The youth of the Gweedore team was talked about a lot, though having Cassidy, McGees, McNiallais in the side was more important. Any club in the county would gladly take those players and expect success.

Final thought on this long ramble: How many people on here would back Glen to win the John McLaughlin, before Bellaghy or Lavey?   (Using these two clubs as they've fit the profile of history/tradition, as well as having won underage titles recently)

(*This is not a takedown of Glen, this is just looking at the link between underage and senior success – plus I'm off work for a few days and very bored*)

[imtommygunn]

An interesting post. I think it takes a few experienced heads in a senior team to really expedite younger teams. Cassidy is a superb footballer and would have helped gweedore a lot. Tyrone are a good comparison too. Youth plus dooher, canavan then a few others like lawn and holmes helped.

If the likes of fergal doherty were still playing he'd be the perfect boy to bring these guys through. Glen maybe haven't had heads like that. Yes at management but maybe not playing level.

[Sheugh Water]

How much stock can we really put in an average Bellaghy side winning an unofficial minor tournament? A lot of people getting carried away.

It is an official competition sanctioned by the Ulster council. Bellaghy thoroughly outplayed every side they met in Ulster and their closest challengers were from within our own county. I think this is encouraging.

I notice in todays paper that this competition is classed as a tournament

I think it is. Same as the Screen hurling one. Not recognised as official competitions by GAA.

Whether it is a tournament or a competition, whether it is sanctioned or not, it is the pinnacle of club u18 football in Ulster and every club would love to win it

didnt say it wasnt

Well then whats your point? Tournament/Competition who really cares. Its a brilliant run competetournament and the best minor teams in Ulster compete in it each year.

I don't have a point. If you can manage to follow the thread you will see i simply answered another posters question. Terrible of  me

[the dodger]

Off work for a few days over the Christmas Hols. I've followed Bellaghy's journey and success through twitter and videos from Jerome Quinn.  I've also been reading a few articles recently about Gweedore and their underage success which has fed into the senior side.  As well as that Mal McMullan tweeted about Derry's success in the Ulster Minor Club Comp. 

I decided to look further into the correlation between minor success and senior success. If we look at some of the Derry clubs that have also won the Ulster Minor Tournament, there is a clear correlation to triumph for the Senior teams.

Dungiven
Ulster Minor Champs: 1990 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 1997
County Champions: 1991 & 1997

Bellaghy
Ulster Minor Champs: 1991 & 1994 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 1994 (Finalists '96, 98, 05)
County Champions: 1994, '96, '98, '99, 00, '05 (Finalists: '95, '01, '03)

An Lub
Ulster Minor Champs: 1993 & 1995 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 2003 (Finalists '09)
County Champions: 2003 & 2009 (Finalists: 2002, '05, '06)

Ballinderry
Ulster Minor Champ: '96, '97, '01 & 08 ; Ulster Senior Champs: '01 & '13 (Finalists '06, '08)
County Champions: 1995, '01, '06, '08, 2011-13 (Finalists: '99,'00, '03, '10, '14)

Slaughtneil
Ulster Minor Champ: '98 ; Ulster Senior Champs: '14, '16, '17
County Champions: 2004, '14, '15, '16, '17 (Finalists: '08, '12)

Kilrea
Ulster Minor Champs: 2007
County Finalists: 2011

Of the Derry winners in the St Paul's tournament only Kilrea have yet to make the breakthrough at senior level.

Even looking at sides that have won the county minor title, an appearance in the Senior County final normally follows as well. Since the year 2000 the following teams have played in the county final:
Bellaghy (W2 L3), Ballinderry (W7 L4), An Lub (W2 L4), Slaughtneil (W5 L2), Glenullin (W1), Dungiven (L1), Coleraine (W2 L1), Kilrea (L1), Ballinascreen (L2), Lavey (L1)

Most of those teams have had victories in minor and u21 competitions prior to their appearance in the senior final. I believe only Glenullin and Coleraine didn't win county titles at either those two age groups.

The sides that have won minor or u21 (recently) and haven't made an appearance (yet) in a senior county final are Magherafelt and Glen.

Which takes me on to another comparison. Between the two most recent winners of the Ulster U21 tournament. Gweedore and Glen.  Glen won the competition three consecutive years prior to Gweedore's win.

There was a lot of emphasis on the age profile of the Gweedore side that won the senior championship and how that was the impetus for their senior side. Looking at Gweedore's victory in the Ulster Club C'ship, would those in Glen not wonder why they haven't reached a County Final (Yet) never mind a winning the Senior Ulster Club.

The Gweedore side that won the U21 title in Feb:

Gaoth Dobhair: Charles Doherty; Ciaran McHugh; Gary McFadden; Ryan Kelly; Conor McCafferty; Niall Friel; Neasán Mac Gíolla Bhride; Michael Carroll; Odhran McFadden-Ferry; Naoise Ó Baoill; Cian Mulligan; Daire Ó Baoill ; Seaghan Ferry; Gavin McBride; Eamonn Collum
Subs:
Conor Boyle

The Gweedore side that won the Seamus McFerran:
GAOTH DOBHAIR: Christopher Sweeney; Gary McFadden, Neil McGee, Christopher McFadden; Niall Friel, Eamonn McGee, Odhran McFadden-Ferry; Daire O Baoill, Odhran MacNiallais; Cian Mulligan, Naoise O Baoill, Daniel McBride; Eamonn Collum, Kevin Cassidy, Micheal Carroll
Subs: J Carroll, S Ferry, P McGee, J Boyle

I'm open to correction, but that's 8 players that started both finals. And one that came off the bench in the Senior Final. That is some influx of young players into the senior side in one season. Which is some achievement for the club.  I'd say if you compared the U-21 winning sides from Glen with the team that played against Lavey in the senior semi-final this year, you'd find a similar scenario.

Glen's underage trophy cabinet compares favourably with Gweedore's, and those lads would be further down the line in terms of playing senior football.  Is there a reason why their underage success translated into senior success? (yet)

What other factors come into play?

I know that TFAL is all about tradition and history playing a part.  Teams that have a history of winning or have players that know how to win.  McEntee also alludes to that in his Irish News column today.  Its also been referenced on the main Ulster Minor Club thread.

The loss of talent (ie Conor Glass) can play a part too.  Whether that be to University, drinking in Belfast, losing interest, moving away, Job, marriage etc.  Are there other talented players from those successful sides that have been lost to any of the above?

Age profile of the team – "The right mix of players" The youth of the Gweedore team was talked about a lot, though having Cassidy, McGees, McNiallais in the side was more important. Any club in the county would gladly take those players and expect success.

Final thought on this long ramble: How many people on here would back Glen to win the John McLaughlin, before Bellaghy or Lavey?   (Using these two clubs as they've fit the profile of history/tradition, as well as having won underage titles recently)

(*This is not a takedown of Glen, this is just looking at the link between underage and senior success – plus I'm off work for a few days and very bored*)

You mentioned Gweedore having 8 starters who tasted U21 success - from the team which was beaten in the Derry semi-final, Glen had 14 starters who had recent Under 21 success. Philip O'Connell is around 32, the next oldest 24 then right down to 18. Compare that with the 3 McGee's, Kevin Cassidy, their keeper, McNiallais, McFadden and 1 or 2 others, all who provide a very experienced spine. A vastly different age & experience profile to Glen.
The defeat to Lavey was disappointing but Glen will learn from it and move forward.

Concentrate your energies on your own club. Screen have also won recent minor titles with no senior success to show. The biggest parish in Derry if not Ulster, 20+ miles square, 99.9% nationalist, no bordering clubs fighting for players - if you're that bored over the holidays, take a long look at your own club ...

[braveheart]

Off work for a few days over the Christmas Hols. I've followed Bellaghy's journey and success through twitter and videos from Jerome Quinn.  I've also been reading a few articles recently about Gweedore and their underage success which has fed into the senior side.  As well as that Mal McMullan tweeted about Derry's success in the Ulster Minor Club Comp. 

I decided to look further into the correlation between minor success and senior success. If we look at some of the Derry clubs that have also won the Ulster Minor Tournament, there is a clear correlation to triumph for the Senior teams.

Dungiven
Ulster Minor Champs: 1990 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 1997
County Champions: 1991 & 1997

Bellaghy
Ulster Minor Champs: 1991 & 1994 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 1994 (Finalists '96, 98, 05)
County Champions: 1994, '96, '98, '99, 00, '05 (Finalists: '95, '01, '03)

An Lub
Ulster Minor Champs: 1993 & 1995 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 2003 (Finalists '09)
County Champions: 2003 & 2009 (Finalists: 2002, '05, '06)

Ballinderry
Ulster Minor Champ: '96, '97, '01 & 08 ; Ulster Senior Champs: '01 & '13 (Finalists '06, '08)
County Champions: 1995, '01, '06, '08, 2011-13 (Finalists: '99,'00, '03, '10, '14)

Slaughtneil
Ulster Minor Champ: '98 ; Ulster Senior Champs: '14, '16, '17
County Champions: 2004, '14, '15, '16, '17 (Finalists: '08, '12)

Kilrea
Ulster Minor Champs: 2007
County Finalists: 2011

Of the Derry winners in the St Paul's tournament only Kilrea have yet to make the breakthrough at senior level.

Even looking at sides that have won the county minor title, an appearance in the Senior County final normally follows as well. Since the year 2000 the following teams have played in the county final:
Bellaghy (W2 L3), Ballinderry (W7 L4), An Lub (W2 L4), Slaughtneil (W5 L2), Glenullin (W1), Dungiven (L1), Coleraine (W2 L1), Kilrea (L1), Ballinascreen (L2), Lavey (L1)

Most of those teams have had victories in minor and u21 competitions prior to their appearance in the senior final. I believe only Glenullin and Coleraine didn't win county titles at either those two age groups.

The sides that have won minor or u21 (recently) and haven't made an appearance (yet) in a senior county final are Magherafelt and Glen.

Which takes me on to another comparison. Between the two most recent winners of the Ulster U21 tournament. Gweedore and Glen.  Glen won the competition three consecutive years prior to Gweedore's win.

There was a lot of emphasis on the age profile of the Gweedore side that won the senior championship and how that was the impetus for their senior side. Looking at Gweedore's victory in the Ulster Club C'ship, would those in Glen not wonder why they haven't reached a County Final (Yet) never mind a winning the Senior Ulster Club.

The Gweedore side that won the U21 title in Feb:

Gaoth Dobhair: Charles Doherty; Ciaran McHugh; Gary McFadden; Ryan Kelly; Conor McCafferty; Niall Friel; Neasán Mac Gíolla Bhride; Michael Carroll; Odhran McFadden-Ferry; Naoise Ó Baoill; Cian Mulligan; Daire Ó Baoill ; Seaghan Ferry; Gavin McBride; Eamonn Collum
Subs:
Conor Boyle

The Gweedore side that won the Seamus McFerran:
GAOTH DOBHAIR: Christopher Sweeney; Gary McFadden, Neil McGee, Christopher McFadden; Niall Friel, Eamonn McGee, Odhran McFadden-Ferry; Daire O Baoill, Odhran MacNiallais; Cian Mulligan, Naoise O Baoill, Daniel McBride; Eamonn Collum, Kevin Cassidy, Micheal Carroll
Subs: J Carroll, S Ferry, P McGee, J Boyle

I'm open to correction, but that's 8 players that started both finals. And one that came off the bench in the Senior Final. That is some influx of young players into the senior side in one season. Which is some achievement for the club.  I'd say if you compared the U-21 winning sides from Glen with the team that played against Lavey in the senior semi-final this year, you'd find a similar scenario.

Glen's underage trophy cabinet compares favourably with Gweedore's, and those lads would be further down the line in terms of playing senior football.  Is there a reason why their underage success translated into senior success? (yet)

What other factors come into play?

I know that TFAL is all about tradition and history playing a part.  Teams that have a history of winning or have players that know how to win.  McEntee also alludes to that in his Irish News column today.  Its also been referenced on the main Ulster Minor Club thread.

The loss of talent (ie Conor Glass) can play a part too.  Whether that be to University, drinking in Belfast, losing interest, moving away, Job, marriage etc.  Are there other talented players from those successful sides that have been lost to any of the above?

Age profile of the team – "The right mix of players" The youth of the Gweedore team was talked about a lot, though having Cassidy, McGees, McNiallais in the side was more important. Any club in the county would gladly take those players and expect success.

Final thought on this long ramble: How many people on here would back Glen to win the John McLaughlin, before Bellaghy or Lavey?   (Using these two clubs as they've fit the profile of history/tradition, as well as having won underage titles recently)

(*This is not a takedown of Glen, this is just looking at the link between underage and senior success – plus I'm off work for a few days and very bored*)

You mentioned Gweedore having 8 starters who tasted U21 success - from the team which was beaten in the Derry semi-final, Glen had 14 starters who had recent Under 21 success. Philip O'Connell is around 32, the next oldest 24 then right down to 18. Compare that with the 3 McGee's, Kevin Cassidy, their keeper, McNiallais, McFadden and 1 or 2 others, all who provide a very experienced spine. A vastly different age & experience profile to Glen.
The defeat to Lavey was disappointing but Glen will learn from it and move forward.

Concentrate your energies on your own club. Screen have also won recent minor titles with no senior success to show. The biggest parish in Derry if not Ulster, 20+ miles square, 99.9% nationalist, no bordering clubs fighting for players - if you're that bored over the holidays, take a long look at your own club ...

That made me laugh.Credit to the Dodger

[Real Talk]

Off work for a few days over the Christmas Hols. I’ve followed Bellaghy’s journey and success through twitter and videos from Jerome Quinn.  I’ve also been reading a few articles recently about Gweedore and their underage success which has fed into the senior side.  As well as that Mal McMullan tweeted about Derry’s success in the Ulster Minor Club Comp. 

I decided to look further into the correlation between minor success and senior success. If we look at some of the Derry clubs that have also won the Ulster Minor Tournament, there is a clear correlation to triumph for the Senior teams.

Dungiven
Ulster Minor Champs: 1990 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 1997
County Champions: 1991 & 1997

Bellaghy
Ulster Minor Champs: 1991 & 1994 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 1994 (Finalists ’96, 98, 05)
County Champions: 1994, ’96, ’98, ’99, 00, ’05 (Finalists: ’95, ’01, ’03)

An Lub
Ulster Minor Champs: 1993 & 1995 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 2003 (Finalists ’09)
County Champions: 2003 & 2009 (Finalists: 2002, ’05, ’06)

Ballinderry
Ulster Minor Champ: ’96, ’97, ’01 & 08 ; Ulster Senior Champs: ’01 & ’13 (Finalists ’06, ’08)
County Champions: 1995, ’01, ’06, ’08, 2011-13 (Finalists: ’99,’00, ’03, ‘10, ‘14)

Slaughtneil
Ulster Minor Champ: ’98 ; Ulster Senior Champs: ’14, ’16, ’17
County Champions: 2004, ’14, ’15, ’16, ’17 (Finalists: ’08, ’12)

Kilrea
Ulster Minor Champs: 2007
County Finalists: 2011

Of the Derry winners in the St Paul’s tournament only Kilrea have yet to make the breakthrough at senior level.

Even looking at sides that have won the county minor title, an appearance in the Senior County final normally follows as well. Since the year 2000 the following teams have played in the county final:
Bellaghy (W2 L3), Ballinderry (W7 L4), An Lub (W2 L4), Slaughtneil (W5 L2), Glenullin (W1), Dungiven (L1), Coleraine (W2 L1), Kilrea (L1), Ballinascreen (L2), Lavey (L1)

Most of those teams have had victories in minor and u21 competitions prior to their appearance in the senior final. I believe only Glenullin and Coleraine didn’t win county titles at either those two age groups.

The sides that have won minor or u21 (recently) and haven't made an appearance (yet) in a senior county final are Magherafelt and Glen.

Which takes me on to another comparison. Between the two most recent winners of the Ulster U21 tournament. Gweedore and Glen.  Glen won the competition three consecutive years prior to Gweedore’s win.

There was a lot of emphasis on the age profile of the Gweedore side that won the senior championship and how that was the impetus for their senior side. Looking at Gweedore’s victory in the Ulster Club C’ship, would those in Glen not wonder why they haven’t reached a County Final (Yet) never mind a winning the Senior Ulster Club.

The Gweedore side that won the U21 title in Feb:

Gaoth Dobhair: Charles Doherty; Ciaran McHugh; Gary McFadden; Ryan Kelly; Conor McCafferty; Niall Friel; Neasán Mac Gíolla Bhride; Michael Carroll; Odhran McFadden-Ferry; Naoise Ó Baoill; Cian Mulligan; Daire Ó Baoill ; Seaghan Ferry; Gavin McBride; Eamonn Collum
Subs:
Conor Boyle

The Gweedore side that won the Seamus McFerran:
GAOTH DOBHAIR: Christopher Sweeney; Gary McFadden, Neil McGee, Christopher McFadden; Niall Friel, Eamonn McGee, Odhran McFadden-Ferry; Daire O Baoill, Odhran MacNiallais; Cian Mulligan, Naoise O Baoill, Daniel McBride; Eamonn Collum, Kevin Cassidy, Micheal Carroll
Subs: J Carroll, S Ferry, P McGee, J Boyle

I’m open to correction, but that’s 8 players that started both finals. And one that came off the bench in the Senior Final. That is some influx of young players into the senior side in one season. Which is some achievement for the club.  I’d say if you compared the U-21 winning sides from Glen with the team that played against Lavey in the senior semi-final this year, you’d find a similar scenario.

Glen’s underage trophy cabinet compares favourably with Gweedore’s, and those lads would be further down the line in terms of playing senior football.  Is there a reason why their underage success translated into senior success? (yet)

What other factors come into play?

I know that TFAL is all about tradition and history playing a part.  Teams that have a history of winning or have players that know how to win.  McEntee also alludes to that in his Irish News column today.  Its also been referenced on the main Ulster Minor Club thread.

The loss of talent (ie Conor Glass) can play a part too.  Whether that be to University, drinking in Belfast, losing interest, moving away, Job, marriage etc.  Are there other talented players from those successful sides that have been lost to any of the above?

Age profile of the team – “The right mix of players” The youth of the Gweedore team was talked about a lot, though having Cassidy, McGees, McNiallais in the side was more important. Any club in the county would gladly take those players and expect success.

Final thought on this long ramble: How many people on here would back Glen to win the John McLaughlin, before Bellaghy or Lavey?   (Using these two clubs as they’ve fit the profile of history/tradition, as well as having won underage titles recently)

(*This is not a takedown of Glen, this is just looking at the link between underage and senior success – plus I’m off work for a few days and very bored*)

You mentioned Gweedore having 8 starters who tasted U21 success - from the team which was beaten in the Derry semi-final, Glen had 14 starters who had recent Under 21 success. Philip O'Connell is around 32, the next oldest 24 then right down to 18. Compare that with the 3 McGee's, Kevin Cassidy, their keeper, McNiallais, McFadden and 1 or 2 others, all who provide a very experienced spine. A vastly different age & experience profile to Glen.
The defeat to Lavey was disappointing but Glen will learn from it and move forward.

Concentrate your energies on your own club. Screen have also won recent minor titles with no senior success to show. The biggest parish in Derry if not Ulster, 20+ miles square, 99.9% nationalist, no bordering clubs fighting for players - if you're that bored over the holidays, take a long look at your own club ...

This was a very interesting post from Estimator and he put a lot of knowledge and detail into it ... the size of Balinascreen Parish is irrelevant ... it certainly didn't bore me reading it ...

[restorepride]

Off work for a few days over the Christmas Hols. I've followed Bellaghy's journey and success through twitter and videos from Jerome Quinn.  I've also been reading a few articles recently about Gweedore and their underage success which has fed into the senior side.  As well as that Mal McMullan tweeted about Derry's success in the Ulster Minor Club Comp. 

I decided to look further into the correlation between minor success and senior success. If we look at some of the Derry clubs that have also won the Ulster Minor Tournament, there is a clear correlation to triumph for the Senior teams.

Dungiven
Ulster Minor Champs: 1990 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 1997
County Champions: 1991 & 1997

Bellaghy
Ulster Minor Champs: 1991 & 1994 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 1994 (Finalists '96, 98, 05)
County Champions: 1994, '96, '98, '99, 00, '05 (Finalists: '95, '01, '03)

An Lub
Ulster Minor Champs: 1993 & 1995 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 2003 (Finalists '09)
County Champions: 2003 & 2009 (Finalists: 2002, '05, '06)

Ballinderry
Ulster Minor Champ: '96, '97, '01 & 08 ; Ulster Senior Champs: '01 & '13 (Finalists '06, '08)
County Champions: 1995, '01, '06, '08, 2011-13 (Finalists: '99,'00, '03, '10, '14)

Slaughtneil
Ulster Minor Champ: '98 ; Ulster Senior Champs: '14, '16, '17
County Champions: 2004, '14, '15, '16, '17 (Finalists: '08, '12)

Kilrea
Ulster Minor Champs: 2007
County Finalists: 2011

Of the Derry winners in the St Paul's tournament only Kilrea have yet to make the breakthrough at senior level.

Even looking at sides that have won the county minor title, an appearance in the Senior County final normally follows as well. Since the year 2000 the following teams have played in the county final:
Bellaghy (W2 L3), Ballinderry (W7 L4), An Lub (W2 L4), Slaughtneil (W5 L2), Glenullin (W1), Dungiven (L1), Coleraine (W2 L1), Kilrea (L1), Ballinascreen (L2), Lavey (L1)

Most of those teams have had victories in minor and u21 competitions prior to their appearance in the senior final. I believe only Glenullin and Coleraine didn't win county titles at either those two age groups.

The sides that have won minor or u21 (recently) and haven't made an appearance (yet) in a senior county final are Magherafelt and Glen.

Which takes me on to another comparison. Between the two most recent winners of the Ulster U21 tournament. Gweedore and Glen.  Glen won the competition three consecutive years prior to Gweedore's win.

There was a lot of emphasis on the age profile of the Gweedore side that won the senior championship and how that was the impetus for their senior side. Looking at Gweedore's victory in the Ulster Club C'ship, would those in Glen not wonder why they haven't reached a County Final (Yet) never mind a winning the Senior Ulster Club.

The Gweedore side that won the U21 title in Feb:

Gaoth Dobhair: Charles Doherty; Ciaran McHugh; Gary McFadden; Ryan Kelly; Conor McCafferty; Niall Friel; Neasán Mac Gíolla Bhride; Michael Carroll; Odhran McFadden-Ferry; Naoise Ó Baoill; Cian Mulligan; Daire Ó Baoill ; Seaghan Ferry; Gavin McBride; Eamonn Collum
Subs:
Conor Boyle

The Gweedore side that won the Seamus McFerran:
GAOTH DOBHAIR: Christopher Sweeney; Gary McFadden, Neil McGee, Christopher McFadden; Niall Friel, Eamonn McGee, Odhran McFadden-Ferry; Daire O Baoill, Odhran MacNiallais; Cian Mulligan, Naoise O Baoill, Daniel McBride; Eamonn Collum, Kevin Cassidy, Micheal Carroll
Subs: J Carroll, S Ferry, P McGee, J Boyle

I'm open to correction, but that's 8 players that started both finals. And one that came off the bench in the Senior Final. That is some influx of young players into the senior side in one season. Which is some achievement for the club.  I'd say if you compared the U-21 winning sides from Glen with the team that played against Lavey in the senior semi-final this year, you'd find a similar scenario.

Glen's underage trophy cabinet compares favourably with Gweedore's, and those lads would be further down the line in terms of playing senior football.  Is there a reason why their underage success translated into senior success? (yet)

What other factors come into play?

I know that TFAL is all about tradition and history playing a part.  Teams that have a history of winning or have players that know how to win.  McEntee also alludes to that in his Irish News column today.  Its also been referenced on the main Ulster Minor Club thread.

The loss of talent (ie Conor Glass) can play a part too.  Whether that be to University, drinking in Belfast, losing interest, moving away, Job, marriage etc.  Are there other talented players from those successful sides that have been lost to any of the above?

Age profile of the team – "The right mix of players" The youth of the Gweedore team was talked about a lot, though having Cassidy, McGees, McNiallais in the side was more important. Any club in the county would gladly take those players and expect success.

Final thought on this long ramble: How many people on here would back Glen to win the John McLaughlin, before Bellaghy or Lavey?   (Using these two clubs as they've fit the profile of history/tradition, as well as having won underage titles recently)

(*This is not a takedown of Glen, this is just looking at the link between underage and senior success – plus I'm off work for a few days and very bored*)

Superb post. Thanks for detail.

[toby47]

Derry will have 96% of their squad available for the NFL -

Derry manager Damian McErlain believes that the majority of his squad should be available for the start of the National Football League.

McErlain is busy preparing for the league opener in a couple of weeks time and gradually he has players coming back into the squad.

This Sunday, the Oak Leaf County take on Fermanagh at Brewster Park in the Dr McKenna Cup and Conor McAtamney is expected to return for this clash.

Speaking to the Derry Journal, McErlain stated that by the time of their opening NFL Division Four clash against Antrim, the majority of the squad should be available.

"Ninety-six per cent of the players will be back and available to us (for the start of the NFL), but who we have is another question because you still have the seven boys who are ineligible for the Dr McKenna Cup because they are with their universities," said McErlain.

"We should have another one or two men back for the Fermanagh game and maybe one or two more for the Ulster University match - those games are on top of each other a bit but it's really the league before you have everyone out and maybe one or two will still get it tight for that."

[Uncle Phil]

Off work for a few days over the Christmas Hols. I've followed Bellaghy's journey and success through twitter and videos from Jerome Quinn.  I've also been reading a few articles recently about Gweedore and their underage success which has fed into the senior side.  As well as that Mal McMullan tweeted about Derry's success in the Ulster Minor Club Comp. 

I decided to look further into the correlation between minor success and senior success. If we look at some of the Derry clubs that have also won the Ulster Minor Tournament, there is a clear correlation to triumph for the Senior teams.

Dungiven
Ulster Minor Champs: 1990 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 1997
County Champions: 1991 & 1997

Bellaghy
Ulster Minor Champs: 1991 & 1994 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 1994 (Finalists '96, 98, 05)
County Champions: 1994, '96, '98, '99, 00, '05 (Finalists: '95, '01, '03)

An Lub
Ulster Minor Champs: 1993 & 1995 ; Ulster Senior Champs: 2003 (Finalists '09)
County Champions: 2003 & 2009 (Finalists: 2002, '05, '06)

Ballinderry
Ulster Minor Champ: '96, '97, '01 & 08 ; Ulster Senior Champs: '01 & '13 (Finalists '06, '08)
County Champions: 1995, '01, '06, '08, 2011-13 (Finalists: '99,'00, '03, '10, '14)

Slaughtneil
Ulster Minor Champ: '98 ; Ulster Senior Champs: '14, '16, '17
County Champions: 2004, '14, '15, '16, '17 (Finalists: '08, '12)

Kilrea
Ulster Minor Champs: 2007
County Finalists: 2011

Of the Derry winners in the St Paul's tournament only Kilrea have yet to make the breakthrough at senior level.

Even looking at sides that have won the county minor title, an appearance in the Senior County final normally follows as well. Since the year 2000 the following teams have played in the county final:
Bellaghy (W2 L3), Ballinderry (W7 L4), An Lub (W2 L4), Slaughtneil (W5 L2), Glenullin (W1), Dungiven (L1), Coleraine (W2 L1), Kilrea (L1), Ballinascreen (L2), Lavey (L1)

Most of those teams have had victories in minor and u21 competitions prior to their appearance in the senior final. I believe only Glenullin and Coleraine didn't win county titles at either those two age groups.

The sides that have won minor or u21 (recently) and haven't made an appearance (yet) in a senior county final are Magherafelt and Glen.

Which takes me on to another comparison. Between the two most recent winners of the Ulster U21 tournament. Gweedore and Glen.  Glen won the competition three consecutive years prior to Gweedore's win.

There was a lot of emphasis on the age profile of the Gweedore side that won the senior championship and how that was the impetus for their senior side. Looking at Gweedore's victory in the Ulster Club C'ship, would those in Glen not wonder why they haven't reached a County Final (Yet) never mind a winning the Senior Ulster Club.

The Gweedore side that won the U21 title in Feb:

Gaoth Dobhair: Charles Doherty; Ciaran McHugh; Gary McFadden; Ryan Kelly; Conor McCafferty; Niall Friel; Neasán Mac Gíolla Bhride; Michael Carroll; Odhran McFadden-Ferry; Naoise Ó Baoill; Cian Mulligan; Daire Ó Baoill ; Seaghan Ferry; Gavin McBride; Eamonn Collum
Subs:
Conor Boyle

The Gweedore side that won the Seamus McFerran:
GAOTH DOBHAIR: Christopher Sweeney; Gary McFadden, Neil McGee, Christopher McFadden; Niall Friel, Eamonn McGee, Odhran McFadden-Ferry; Daire O Baoill, Odhran MacNiallais; Cian Mulligan, Naoise O Baoill, Daniel McBride; Eamonn Collum, Kevin Cassidy, Micheal Carroll
Subs: J Carroll, S Ferry, P McGee, J Boyle

I'm open to correction, but that's 8 players that started both finals. And one that came off the bench in the Senior Final. That is some influx of young players into the senior side in one season. Which is some achievement for the club.  I'd say if you compared the U-21 winning sides from Glen with the team that played against Lavey in the senior semi-final this year, you'd find a similar scenario.

Glen's underage trophy cabinet compares favourably with Gweedore's, and those lads would be further down the line in terms of playing senior football.  Is there a reason why their underage success translated into senior success? (yet)

What other factors come into play?

I know that TFAL is all about tradition and history playing a part.  Teams that have a history of winning or have players that know how to win.  McEntee also alludes to that in his Irish News column today.  Its also been referenced on the main Ulster Minor Club thread.

The loss of talent (ie Conor Glass) can play a part too.  Whether that be to University, drinking in Belfast, losing interest, moving away, Job, marriage etc.  Are there other talented players from those successful sides that have been lost to any of the above?

Age profile of the team – "The right mix of players" The youth of the Gweedore team was talked about a lot, though having Cassidy, McGees, McNiallais in the side was more important. Any club in the county would gladly take those players and expect success.

Final thought on this long ramble: How many people on here would back Glen to win the John McLaughlin, before Bellaghy or Lavey?   (Using these two clubs as they've fit the profile of history/tradition, as well as having won underage titles recently)

(*This is not a takedown of Glen, this is just looking at the link between underage and senior success – plus I'm off work for a few days and very bored*)

You mentioned Gweedore having 8 starters who tasted U21 success - from the team which was beaten in the Derry semi-final, Glen had 14 starters who had recent Under 21 success. Philip O'Connell is around 32, the next oldest 24 then right down to 18. Compare that with the 3 McGee's, Kevin Cassidy, their keeper, McNiallais, McFadden and 1 or 2 others, all who provide a very experienced spine. A vastly different age & experience profile to Glen.
The defeat to Lavey was disappointing but Glen will learn from it and move forward.

Concentrate your energies on your own club. Screen have also won recent minor titles with no senior success to show. The biggest parish in Derry if not Ulster, 20+ miles square, 99.9% nationalist, no bordering clubs fighting for players - if you're that bored over the holidays, take a long look at your own club ...

Dodger, you sound like a jaded Glen man. And who could blame you? But seriously, you should channel your efforts towards something more fruitful. The Ballinascreen Historical Society are looking contributors. You would fit right in, given your intricate knowledge of the parish. Estimator - good, informative post.