Limerick hurlers

[Zulu]

Explain (with a bit of detail please)?

[orangeman]

Limerick manager was in situ after getting to a semi final and getting bate out the gate by Tipp- he drops a few players in the closed season, and the players get annoyed and a few conspire to get rid of him.
Clare's manager last year got rid of a player for disciplinary reasons - the season goes on and had a horrible season. The players then decide he's not for them.


Cork don't win the AI under Gerard even though they got to semi final and giving KK a good game in HQ and they get rid of him after being at loggerheads with the CB for almost a decade over some issues totally unrelated to hurling and having had experience of similar strike action.



So not mirror images.

[INDIANA]

Oh ok, so your objection to the Cork strike last year wasn't based on the treatment of Gerald or ignoring 'democracy' but simply because they had done it on more than one occassion?

I think you know that's not the case.

I just hope that there isn't another strike or strikes this year.

I haven't a clue what you think, I'll wait to see how this develops but I'll be interested to see if these Limerick and Clare lads get the same treatment from the defenders of the GAA as the Cork players did because as things stand there are major parallels.

Limerick and Clare haven't got form in this regard at all but let's see how it goes. I'd be fairly certain however that Clare and Limerick will not experience the same trauma as was felt in Cork last winter.

What has that got to do with your opinion on the merits of this show of 'player power'?

As regards the Clare situation I've already said  on another thread that while I don't rate Mike Mac the Clare team has a range of uncommitted players who wouldn't be any use if they had Brian cody unless their attitude changed.

A democratically mandated manager who the players aren't happy with and want gone, errily similar to Cork last wouldn't you say?

For the limerick situation I think Limerick people are baffled as regards why a totally committed player like niall Moran who is one of their top forwards has been dropped for inferior players. Shaughs as well but obviously the poor fella had extentuating circumstances there. But you'd wonder did the management even take an interest in the issues there.
Lucey wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea- very forceful in the dressing room. Top player thought but I can see why justin wouldn't want him on board.

I'll be honest I think Justin has lost it at this stage. thats hardly the same as Gerald  Mc carthy situation who at least managed to pick the best players at his disposal. Justin hasn't even managed to do that. And if you're as well in with limerick Gaa as you appear to be you'll know things are afoot already.

There is plenty afoot indeed but again, McCarthy is the manager and rightly or wrongly dropped 12 players but is it not player power at play again? The Cork players we were told last year were possibly motivated by getting Gerald out because they wanted to secure their own places on the panel, which was nonsense. Now the Limerick lads seem to actually want the manager out so that some lads will get back on the panel and there is none of the outrage, strange.

By the way the Limerick lads weren't happy with McCarthy by the end of last year so this has been coming for some time but I'm just baffled by the lack of outrage on this site. I was one of the few to defend the Cork players for the last two years against some disgracfully personal comments from lads (many of whom, hadn't a clue) yet mirror situations in Limerick and Clare are developing without a whimper.

I agree on the clare situation. very similar to Cork in my view. Bunch of over-rated players a lot of whom are past it calling for a managers's head when its them that are at fault. The lack of outrage is down to the fact Mike Mac isn't a well liked individual. Gerald was a star and very well liked countrywide.

I don't believe the Limerick situation is the same. I think this is a clear case of the manager losing the plot but I don't agree with reale and Ollie Moran organising the campaign through the media. If he wants to step aside he should do so without playing it through the media and let things take their own course. This ensures the limerick case will become  a circus. Which it is set to become in the coming days. If both players made representations to the county board to through the proper channels they would get a fair hearing because the limerick county board is split down the middle.
Cork unfortunately set the precedent of using the media. Its a pity clare anad limerick are using these channels as well. But its going to become more commonplace.

[AZOffaly]

I think these situations are just different flavours of the Cork (and Offaly to be fair) situations. Slightly different circumstances, but the same core issue. Players want the manager out. They want to work with someone who they feel can get the best out of them. The question of whether there is any more to get out is moot.

What is, I think, undeniable is that the relative success of the Cork strikers has inspired this sort of action by inter county players from other counties.

I think that's sad. Strike should be the nuclear option. I think Cork jumped to it way too soon in their disputes with the CB (essentially the difference here), and Offaly, Clare and Limerick seem to be skipping all the preliminary steps before a strike on the same basis.

I still question how amateur players, who can be replaced pretty easily in order to field a team, can go on strike, but that's semantics I suppose.

[Zulu]

Limerick manager was in situ after getting to a semi final and getting bate out the gate by Tipp- he drops a few players in the closed season, and the players get annoyed and a few conspire to get rid of him.
Clare's manager last year got rid of a player for disciplinary reasons - the season goes on and had a horrible season. The players then decide he's not for them.


Cork don't win the AI under Gerard even though they got to semi final and giving KK a good game in HQ and they get rid of him after being at loggerheads with the CB for almost a decade over some issues totally unrelated to hurling and having had experience of similar strike action.



So not mirror images.

You're having a laugh right? Let me see if I can get this straight, you think that the Limerick and Clare situations are different because the players have a problem with their managers (both of whom have been involved, as coaches, in AI winning teams by the way) but the Cork lads were only using Gerald as a means to get at the CB and had no actual issue with Gerald at all. Is that right? And if it is, you think the Cork situation was as bad as you declared (repeatedly) last year while the situations this year are ok or justified?

agree on the clare situation. very similar to Cork in my view. Bunch of over-rated players a lot of whom are past it calling for a managers's head when its them that are at fault.

A bit simplistic in fairness Indiana, the Clare players are better than they showed last year and if the rumours of training on the morning of league games are true it raises serious questions about Mike Macs suitability for this level of sport.

The lack of outrage is down to the fact Mike Mac isn't a well liked individual. Gerald was a star and very well liked countrywide.

That's no justifuication whatsoever and it certainly isn't a valid one on this board as most posters know neither man, player moves against managers are either acceptable or not.

I don't believe the Limerick situation is the same. I think this is a clear case of the manager losing the plot

I think Justins faults were well known prior to his appointment and in truth I doubted it would ever work, though I'm surprised at how quickly it has unravelled. I think most folk in Limerick think only 3 or 4 of the 12 were harshly done by but that they should have all been contacted and told why they were being dropped. either way surely lads around here think that a manager has tehy right to pick any panel he wants, after all we were told last year that nobody can be part of the next seasons panel until it is picked so how can they go on strike, so if that is true how can any Limerick hurler who isn't picked for the 2010 panel be upset when he was never on it in the first place?

[INDIANA]

never said cos he wasnt well liked it was justified, just thats the reason. Thats the modern world.
The problem justin has is that those 3 and 4 players are the difference between being competitive and not being. I agree 7 of the 12 are replaceable. But lucey  reale moran and shaughs are irreplaceable. Ollie moran has retired as well.

[Zulu]

He didn't drop Reale and Shaughs is out anyway, so the question remains are the non-existent panel (according to some) justified in kicking up a fuss over their manager dropping 2 or 3 players, that while good, have hardly set the IC alight?

never said cos he wasnt well liked it was justified, just thats the reason.

So are you telling me that all the lads who abused the Cork players here last year did so because they liked a man they never met and are not doing so this year because they don't like a different man they never met?

[INDIANA]

He didn't drop Reale and Shaughs is out anyway, so the question remains are the non-existent panel (according to some) justified in kicking up a fuss over their manager dropping 2 or 3 players, that while good, have hardly set the IC alight?

never said cos he wasnt well liked it was justified, just thats the reason.

So are you telling me that all the lads who abused the Cork players here last year did so because they liked a man they never met and are not doing so this year because they don't like a different man they never met?

Zulu you don't have to meet someone to have respect for them. I've never met Jonny Wilkinson but i respect him. The reason I respect him is because of the way he's carried himself in the public domain. I've never met a lot of the cork hurlers but I'd have little or no respect for them because of the way they've carried themselves.
People don't like Mike Mac because he has zero personaility and comes across as boorish, army sergeant type and because people don't rate him as a coach and see the clare success as all loughnane's doing- which it largely was in my view. Gerald Mc Carthy was a well respected, well liked individual.
You and me don;t get to decide the public's perception of people.

[Zulu]

You and me don;t get to decide the public's perception of people.

That's what you're presuming to do Indiana, you don't know anymore than I do what the general public think of either man. Besides are you saying that the facts of the Cork or Clare situation are irrelevant, that the people who abused the Cork players and justified it by all sorts of ridiculous excuses were really doing so because they liked Gerald and not some of the players., however they aren't offering a similar opinion on these situations because they don't like Mike Mac or Justin McCarthy and do like the players?

[INDIANA]

Most people though the cork players were in the wrong. and they are a high profile team Zulu.
Clare aren't a high profile team , the papers don't really care because it won't sell papers. Clare are not especially competitive. Clare never won a competitive game last season either which isn't helping mike Mac. All of those things contribute to the public's perception. Its not right but unfortunately that life.

As regards Limerick Justin hasn't a whole lot of support for his actions thats half his problem media wise. He's getting hammered by the local papers as well. But the Cork hurlers started this process of the trial of managers by the media. And its going to get worse. I'm seeing it  in certain clubs in Dublin right now at senior club level who want to get rid of thier managers on the same basis.

[Zulu]

Indiana, I'm not talking about the media or even the general public, I'm talking about the people who post here, the ones who abused the Cork players and declared that their real motivations were money, profile, their position on the panel etc. yet have nothing to say about these situations. Since they represent the grassroots GAA man, surely these guys are as appalled at what is going on in lower profile counties as they were in Cork? And if not, why not?

[theskull1]

Just to clarify I think there all as bad as each other. They have obviously learned from the cork debacle. It really is getting embarrassing. Is club hurling no good to these boys anymore?

Why do youse boys reckon justin excluded them from the panel? I'd say it was for well considered reasons. Reasons that he doesn't need to explain to the media or Joe public. Who is mean't to pick the panels these days? The manager? the players? the media? or maybe we're progressing nicely to any x factor or strictly style phone vote?

[INDIANA]

Indiana, I'm not talking about the media or even the general public, I'm talking about the people who post here, the ones who abused the Cork players and declared that their real motivations were money, profile, their position on the panel etc. yet have nothing to say about these situations. Since they represent the grassroots GAA man, surely these guys are as appalled at what is going on in lower profile counties as they were in Cork? And if not, why not?

you'll have to ask them that. My position is that I haven't much sympathy for the clare players stance. In my view you'd need kofi annan to manage them.
I don't agree with the limerick players methods of trialling by media. At the same time I think Justin has lost it but their are channels players can go through. The limerick leader isn't it in my view.
But the precedent has been set.

[Zulu]

you'll have to ask them that.

I thought that's what I was doing!

Just to clarify I think there all as bad as each other. They have obviously learned from the cork debacle. It really is getting embarrassing. Is club hurling no good to these boys anymore?

Fair enough skull1.

Why do youse boys reckon justin excluded them from the panel?

My understanding is some of them didn't agree with him or his methods and weren't shy about saying it. The problem for Justin is I don't think too many of the panel were impressed by his methods and getting rid of some of teh main men might have the opposite effect to that which he intended.

[theskull1]

Why do youse boys reckon justin excluded them from the panel?

My understanding is some of them didn't agree with him or his methods and weren't shy about saying it. The problem for Justin is I don't think too many of the panel were impressed by his methods and getting rid of some of teh main men might have the opposite effect to that which he intended.

I'm reading that they voiced their views in very inappropriate and disrectful ways Zulu?