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Theres a lot of variables at play. Even in hurling strongholds the number of players playing Hurling does not equate with the interest in the game. I would say hurling in Cork and Clare is much greater than 60% in terms of public interest and support but maybe closer to 60 in terms of participation.

There's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.

Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...

At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.

Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.

Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.

You can only call a throw when you see it.. do you really think the referee allows it?

I think they are unsure and in most cases give the benefit of the doubt to keep the game flowing, as thats what we want right?. If your happy with that then why not just allow throws altogether? More to the point is that even if theres a mm of space between the ball and the hand its just too easy and its why there needs to be change. Hurling was always a game of skill and Im sorry to say these kind of handpasses (not all) are at the very low end of the skills.

There's a simple rule in refereeing

If you can't see it you can't call it.

The flow of the game is generally down to the players tbf

Hand passing is an integral part of hurling and done right it can split defences and goals come from that quick pass.

Throws can't be allowed, as it leaves it wide open

That is your convenient interpretation of the rule which actualy states 'the ball shall be Released and struck with a definite striking action of a hand'.
You have turned the rule around so that we error on the side of throwing rather than clear handpasses.
Handpassing is an integral part of the game but its becoming the primary means of moving the ball. Nobody is saying to get rid of the handpass, just the throw type. Excellent Read below....

https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2024/0207/1431014-75-of-handpasses-are-fouls-kelly-urges-rule-change/

There's nothing convenient about it.. do we just call for fouls in all parts of the game because he probably did it?

Make the rule change and that's that.. but don't be making stuff up.

Absouloutely not but with the proposed new rule there is no 'probably', its clearcut.

There's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.

Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...

At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.

Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.

Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.

You can only call a throw when you see it.. do you really think the referee allows it?

I think they are unsure and in most cases give the benefit of the doubt to keep the game flowing, as thats what we want right?. If your happy with that then why not just allow throws altogether? More to the point is that even if theres a mm of space between the ball and the hand its just too easy and its why there needs to be change. Hurling was always a game of skill and Im sorry to say these kind of handpasses (not all) are at the very low end of the skills.

There's a simple rule in refereeing

If you can't see it you can't call it.

The flow of the game is generally down to the players tbf

Hand passing is an integral part of hurling and done right it can split defences and goals come from that quick pass.

Throws can't be allowed, as it leaves it wide open

That is your convenient interpretation of the rule which actualy states 'the ball shall be Released and struck with a definite striking action of a hand'.
You have turned the rule around so that we error on the side of throwing rather than clear handpasses.
Handpassing is an integral part of the game but its becoming the primary means of moving the ball. Nobody is saying to get rid of the handpass, just the throw type. Excellent Read below....

https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2024/0207/1431014-75-of-handpasses-are-fouls-kelly-urges-rule-change/

There's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.

Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...

At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.

Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.

Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.

You can only call a throw when you see it.. do you really think the referee allows it?

I think they are unsure and in most cases give the benefit of the doubt to keep the game flowing, as thats what we want right?. If your happy with that then why not just allow throws altogether? More to the point is that even if theres a mm of space between the ball and the hand its just too easy and its why there needs to be change. Hurling was always a game of skill and Im sorry to say these kind of handpasses (not all) are at the very low end of the skills.

There's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.

Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...

At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.

Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.

Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.

The rucks developed over the last 10 years as did the over use of the throw like handpass. So theres a relationship there. And sure the lack of ground hurling makes rucks more likely but ground hurling has been in decline for 30 years. The way hurling is going the hurl will be used less and the hand even more.

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I was watching a camogie match today. The curse of the rucks. There is no ground hurling any more. This has been replaced by rucks thanks to the short hurls.
[/quote]
Players emerging from rucks with one hand up around the bas and the other hand holding the ball. You know from this stance that their first intention is to offload a handpass and they nearly always do. The reward for winning a ruck is too big and hence the rucks get bigger and bigger. We have endless threads on how to solve problems in Gaelic Football yet we are happy for hurling to follow it down the same old handpassing hole. Handpassing is the primary problem and rucks are secondary.

That ball from Peter duggan for Clare's first goal was something else.

That was David Fitzgerald....

I wont disagree with you but honestly is their respect for football any worse than Kerrys respect for hurling?

I don't know about the powers that be and their respect for hurling in Kerry but they have a very passionate hurling stronghold in North Kerry and their hurling team is fairly strong just below the Liam McCarthy. Kilkenny have neither a  football team in league nor senior championship. There is literally no comparison between the two.
[/quote]

You have taken my quote out of context. I was talking about tipp and Cork. Tipp have been in an AI semi final recently and Cork have won many AI finals in football. You brought Kilkenny into the argument as most football people do when making an argument for several football countries that have the same repsect for hurling as Kilkenny do do football. But thats just one Hurling county!

[Tipp and Cork like most of the hurling counties have a healthy respect for football]

I must say I find it hilarious when hurling people get on their high horse about the state of hurling in Cavan and Fermanagh.

In Cork, Kilkenny, Limerick, Tipperary football has been treated like sh*t for years. Kilkenny don't even pretend to bother any more.

So I'll listen to arguments about what needs to be done for Cavan hurling when those counties treat football equally.

Did Tipp not play in an All Ireland semi final recently? Cork have won the All Ireland a good few times, Kilkenny compete in the lower end of football Junior I think, and have won it a few times, as for Limerick, they always had a decent team, maybe Waterford and Antrim would have been a better example of underperforming or underfunding ..

These things I wouldn't find hilarious, but each to their own

"Kilkenny compete in the Junior"..😂😂😂 Well - you really disproved my argument, I surrender.
In case you're not aware, that competition is for native born Americans and English players and is played semi-final/final on same weekend like some Féile blitz. That's the level of effort Kilkenny are putting into football. What about club football in Kilkenny? How is that organised pray tell?

I've lived in Tipperary and Cork. Both county boards completely dominated by hurling heads. Officials and coaches in both counties actively discourage dual players playing football. That's quite well known.

There are hardcore football clubs and people in both counties, especially in West Cork which is a heartland of football but the board has treated them like shit to varying degrees over the years. Cork should be a dominant football county but aren't. Why? I could fill a book with stories.
A few years ago at one state the Senior hurlers were training in a college gym in Cork city, paid for by board - while the footballers were forced to rent a warehouse in Fermoy and kit it out themselves. Look up how far Fermoy is from Castlehaven, Bantry or Rosscarbery where footballers were travelling from.
As soon as any talented dual player enters a Cork squad system they are told giving up football is one of the keys to progressing. The large traditional hurling Clubs like Midleton, Sars, Blackrock, Glen Rovers, Na Piarsaigh treat football with absolute spite. The irony being that the one true dual city club who don't - St Finbarrs - excel in both codes because of it.

So to be perfectly honest laughter is all I offer when I hear hurling heads bleating about Leitrim or Cavan hurling. If Hurling snobs ran the GAA and got their wish, football would be banned.
Hurling is a good sport and anyone who wants to play it should be given the opportunity to do so but what hurling people don't seem to get or want to admit though is that
north of the Dublin-Galway line - as Martin Fogarty outlined in many interviews since quitting his role with GAA - there is very little interest in hurling. Hurling is strong in the rich farming counties mainly. There are well documented historical reasons for this.

Not sure how you can draw a comparison between Tipp and Cork and Cavan and Louth. Tipp and Cork like most of the hurling counties have a healthy respect for football and the numbers participating is testament to that. Just because its not the holy grail as it is in Kerry should be no reason to have a cut at them. We all know the same is not true of Cavan and Louth where hurling is almost non existent. Maybe its just a Kerry thing, hurling somehow undermines their superiority complex.

The bolded bit is absolute nonsense. I've lived in Cork for a long time and been involved in GAA at club level.
As I outlined in previous posts, Football is looked on with disdain by the hurling dominated board in Cork (and Tipp) and any meagre success is in spite of this and down to a handful of hardcore football people largely from West or Northwest of Cork or other isolated pockets like Nemo Rangers in the city.

Anyone prepared to discuss how football is treated in Kilkenny? I won't hold my breath.

I wont disagree with you but honestly is their respect for football any worse than Kerrys respect for hurling?

I must say I find it hilarious when hurling people get on their high horse about the state of hurling in Cavan and Fermanagh.

In Cork, Kilkenny, Limerick, Tipperary football has been treated like sh*t for years. Kilkenny don't even pretend to bother any more.

So I'll listen to arguments about what needs to be done for Cavan hurling when those counties treat football equally.

Did Tipp not play in an All Ireland semi final recently? Cork have won the All Ireland a good few times, Kilkenny compete in the lower end of football Junior I think, and have won it a few times, as for Limerick, they always had a decent team, maybe Waterford and Antrim would have been a better example of underperforming or underfunding ..

These things I wouldn't find hilarious, but each to their own

"Kilkenny compete in the Junior"..😂😂😂 Well - you really disproved my argument, I surrender.
In case you're not aware, that competition is for native born Americans and English players and is played semi-final/final on same weekend like some Féile blitz. That's the level of effort Kilkenny are putting into football. What about club football in Kilkenny? How is that organised pray tell?

I've lived in Tipperary and Cork. Both county boards completely dominated by hurling heads. Officials and coaches in both counties actively discourage dual players playing football. That's quite well known.

There are hardcore football clubs and people in both counties, especially in West Cork which is a heartland of football but the board has treated them like shit to varying degrees over the years. Cork should be a dominant football county but aren't. Why? I could fill a book with stories.
A few years ago at one state the Senior hurlers were training in a college gym in Cork city, paid for by board - while the footballers were forced to rent a warehouse in Fermoy and kit it out themselves. Look up how far Fermoy is from Castlehaven, Bantry or Rosscarbery where footballers were travelling from.
As soon as any talented dual player enters a Cork squad system they are told giving up football is one of the keys to progressing. The large traditional hurling Clubs like Midleton, Sars, Blackrock, Glen Rovers, Na Piarsaigh treat football with absolute spite. The irony being that the one true dual city club who don't - St Finbarrs - excel in both codes because of it.

So to be perfectly honest laughter is all I offer when I hear hurling heads bleating about Leitrim or Cavan hurling. If Hurling snobs ran the GAA and got their wish, football would be banned.
Hurling is a good sport and anyone who wants to play it should be given the opportunity to do so but what hurling people don't seem to get or want to admit though is that
north of the Dublin-Galway line - as Martin Fogarty outlined in many interviews since quitting his role with GAA - there is very little interest in hurling. Hurling is strong in the rich farming counties mainly. There are well documented historical reasons for this.

Not sure how you can draw a comparison between Tipp and Cork and Cavan and Louth. Tipp and Cork like most of the hurling counties have a healthy respect for football and the numbers participating is testament to that. Just because its not the holy grail as it is in Kerry should be no reason to have a cut at them. We all know the same is not true of Cavan and Louth where hurling is almost non existent. Maybe its just a Kerry thing, hurling somehow undermines their superiority complex.

Well pumping money into training kids that probably are not that interested in being trained in the game wont help either. Personally I think the only way for hurling to thrive in counties like Cavan is for some sort of split season at underage. Example Football April to July, Hurling from Aug to Oct. In small clubs like mine, where you are pulling on the same kids for both sports well in Cavan there will only be one winner.

And to be honest,  and I got big grief for this on another thread, small counties cannot afford to keep 2 intercounty teams running and should be focusing on their primary sport. Cavan hurling has improved but in reality an Intermediate club team in Antrim would probably hammer them and the reality is no one I know would even think about going to watch a game. Sorry.

Offaly is similar in size to Cavan and are they any worse off for supporting both codes? The crux of the matter is the hurling resources being diverted to football. If your county board are as honest as you are then maybe hurling funds should be discarded altogether rather than squandering more resources?

Offaly is still partly in the hurling zone. It has the hurling and camogie culture.  It has all Ireland winners.  Cavan does not.

Yes Im well aware of that but what has it got to do with funding hurling in these counties that say they cant afford both codes?

Well pumping money into training kids that probably are not that interested in being trained in the game wont help either. Personally I think the only way for hurling to thrive in counties like Cavan is for some sort of split season at underage. Example Football April to July, Hurling from Aug to Oct. In small clubs like mine, where you are pulling on the same kids for both sports well in Cavan there will only be one winner.

And to be honest,  and I got big grief for this on another thread, small counties cannot afford to keep 2 intercounty teams running and should be focusing on their primary sport. Cavan hurling has improved but in reality an Intermediate club team in Antrim would probably hammer them and the reality is no one I know would even think about going to watch a game. Sorry.

Offaly is similar in size to Cavan and are they any worse off for supporting both codes? The crux of the matter is the hurling resources being diverted to football. If your county board are as honest as you are then maybe hurling funds should be discarded altogether rather than squandering more resources?

https://twitter.com/ShaneSaint/status/1725590429783986442

Sambo seems very sure where the problem lies. You would think he knows the problems with hurling more than most in that part of the country/

As this is mainly a football site , I ask those from the 5 counties of Leitrim, Fernamagh, Longford, Louth and Cavan what they really think about the proposal to stop them playing league hurling and spend the resources on hurling coaching instead. Is this driven from within and does anyone really care about hurling here? Is there a genuine belief that the GAA is to blame for not promoting hurling in these counties or is that a convenient excuse for the actual truth that the county boards would prefer little or no interference from hurling so they can put all their resources into football?
The reason I ask is I hear the 'nobody here cares about hurling' and on the other hand 'the gaa has failed promotion of the game' in the same breath. The truth lies somehwere between.

Edit to remove caps in thread title...Mod5