Northern nationalists versus ?

[bennydorano]

Ah, so you do want oppression of women!

You didn't answer about the LGBTQ+ community

Bland PR-like statements don't cut it, especially when accompanied by US evangelical style craziness

Nope, I respect how valuable human life is unlike you.

That would obviously explain your support for the PIRA 

Clearly as they were fighting a government that routinely opened fire on unarmed civilians because they were taking to the streets to demand their civil rights.

The free state establishment has much blood on its hands when it comes to the troubles.

Those 644 civilians the PIRA killed were key members of that government of course

The "elite", or something

To cite dead civilians on the streets of Derry as a legitimate justification for 644 other dead civilians is Orwellian

You're pontificating about civilians being killed when you're the only poster on here who defended the IRA that won your rotten state its independence going around murdering civilians.

You are at odds with yourself here, as I predicted, you have routinely shown yourself to be morally bankrupt once again.

So the Republic of Ireland is in your words a "Rotten state"?

Can I take it then you won't want to be a part of a United Ireland then?

You've more in common in denigrating the Republic of Ireland with Jim Alister than you do with me.

A UI doesn't = ROI + NI. I dont want NI to be merged into ROI structures, I want a New Ireland.

You described us in the south as being part of a "rotten state"

Is insulting us part of the grand plan to make us vote for a United ireland after the unity vote is won in the North?

I presumed we were all on the same side,maybe we ain't

1. No, that was Angelo, I was jumping on a point just.
2. I don't ever expect to see a UI. In the confines of a polling booth I wouldn't be convinced that ROI voters would vote for it,  I also think there's a huge number of 'nationalists' in NI who would do the same tbh - nevermind the Unionist population.
3. If Scotland goes the chances improve, but then the New Ireland conversation has to be had. I dont see the ROI being comfortable giving up it's structure to accommodate the New Ireland.

[sid waddell]

Sid,

I appreciate your openness and honesty. As a northern nationalist myself, I have two choices in elections - SDLP or Sinn Fein. And sometimes only one, when the other steps aside. Therefore as an occasional voter of Sinn Fein in the north - am I tarred with the same brush?

PS. I am still trying to work out an appropriate title for this thread. Any ideas?

I myself would vote SF were I faced with a straight choice between Gildernew and Elliott or Finucane and Dodds

And then I would curse that choice

'Tis a pity because other than the SF connection I quite like Gildernew

[sid waddell]

Ah, so you do want oppression of women!

You didn't answer about the LGBTQ+ community

Bland PR-like statements don't cut it, especially when accompanied by US evangelical style craziness

Nope, I respect how valuable human life is unlike you.

That would obviously explain your support for the PIRA 

Clearly as they were fighting a government that routinely opened fire on unarmed civilians because they were taking to the streets to demand their civil rights.

The free state establishment has much blood on its hands when it comes to the troubles.

Those 644 civilians the PIRA killed were key members of that government of course

The "elite", or something

To cite dead civilians on the streets of Derry as a legitimate justification for 644 other dead civilians is Orwellian

You're pontificating about civilians being killed when you're the only poster on here who defended the IRA that won your rotten state its independence going around murdering civilians.

You are at odds with yourself here, as I predicted, you have routinely shown yourself to be morally bankrupt once again.

So the Republic of Ireland is in your words a "Rotten state"?

Can I take it then you won't want to be a part of a United Ireland then?

You've more in common in denigrating the Republic of Ireland with Jim Alister than you do with me.

A UI doesn't = ROI + NI. I dont want NI to be merged into ROI structures, I want a New Ireland.

You described us in the south as being part of a "rotten state"

Is insulting us part of the grand plan to make us vote for a United ireland after the unity vote is won in the North?

I presumed we were all on the same side,maybe we ain't

1. No, that was Angelo, I was jumping on a point just.
2. I don't ever expect to see a UI. In the confines of a polling booth I wouldn't be convinced that ROI voters would vote for it,  I also think there's a huge number of 'nationalists' in NI who would do the same tbh - nevermind the Unionist population.
3. If Scotland goes the chances improve, but then the New Ireland conversation has to be had. I dont see the ROI being comfortable giving up it's structure to accommodate the New Ireland.

I think the Republic would vote comfortably for it because Sinn Fein would likely have the good sense to step aside from the campaign, well, I think they probably would

The campaign would likely be led by Fine Gael people, people like Neale Richmond, the people who get called "West Brits"

[clonadmad]

Ah, so you do want oppression of women!

You didn't answer about the LGBTQ+ community

Bland PR-like statements don't cut it, especially when accompanied by US evangelical style craziness

Nope, I respect how valuable human life is unlike you.

That would obviously explain your support for the PIRA 

Clearly as they were fighting a government that routinely opened fire on unarmed civilians because they were taking to the streets to demand their civil rights.

The free state establishment has much blood on its hands when it comes to the troubles.

Those 644 civilians the PIRA killed were key members of that government of course

The "elite", or something

To cite dead civilians on the streets of Derry as a legitimate justification for 644 other dead civilians is Orwellian

You're pontificating about civilians being killed when you're the only poster on here who defended the IRA that won your rotten state its independence going around murdering civilians.

You are at odds with yourself here, as I predicted, you have routinely shown yourself to be morally bankrupt once again.

So the Republic of Ireland is in your words a "Rotten state"?

Can I take it then you won't want to be a part of a United Ireland then?

You've more in common in denigrating the Republic of Ireland with Jim Alister than you do with me.

A UI doesn't = ROI + NI. I dont want NI to be merged into ROI structures, I want a New Ireland.

You described us in the south as being part of a "rotten state"

Is insulting us part of the grand plan to make us vote for a United ireland after the unity vote is won in the North?

I presumed we were all on the same side,maybe we ain't

1. No, that was Angelo, I was jumping on a point just.
2. I don't ever expect to see a UI. In the confines of a polling booth I wouldn't be convinced that ROI voters would vote for it,  I also think there's a huge number of 'nationalists' in NI who would do the same tbh - nevermind the Unionist population.
3. If Scotland goes the chances improve, but then the New Ireland conversation has to be had. I dont see the ROI being comfortable giving up it's structure to accommodate the New Ireland.

Mea culpa

Polls have consistently shown a majority in favor of a UI amongst southern voters,granted its opinion polls but it's the best indicator of what we've got.

The books would have to be opened on the NI economy something the British are very reticent to do

How much are they paying every year to keep the North afloat

Is it £5bn,£10bn,£15bn per annum?

This is something that needs to be done well in advance not to frighten or put people off but in order for everyone to be fully aware of the facts and how the gap can be bridged and narrowed over time .

[Angelo]

Ah, so you do want oppression of women!

You didn't answer about the LGBTQ+ community

Bland PR-like statements don't cut it, especially when accompanied by US evangelical style craziness

Nope, I respect how valuable human life is unlike you.

That would obviously explain your support for the PIRA 

Clearly as they were fighting a government that routinely opened fire on unarmed civilians because they were taking to the streets to demand their civil rights.

The free state establishment has much blood on its hands when it comes to the troubles.

Those 644 civilians the PIRA killed were key members of that government of course

The "elite", or something

To cite dead civilians on the streets of Derry as a legitimate justification for 644 other dead civilians is Orwellian

You're pontificating about civilians being killed when you're the only poster on here who defended the IRA that won your rotten state its independence going around murdering civilians.

You are at odds with yourself here, as I predicted, you have routinely shown yourself to be morally bankrupt once again.

Rotten state, really ? Go Angelo , obviously another shinner dim wit displaying exactly why SF will never be the most suitable party to lead our drive for UI

Absolutely a rotten state.

Imagine a state that covers up an atrocity like the Dublin-Monaghan bombing, the mass murder of its own citizens, who consistently turned a blind to the British state terrorism that was happening miles away from its own border on its own people. The same people who were ignoring these things were also happy to turn a blind eye to child abuse, were happy to flog its citizens so they could enrich people Larry Goodman, Denis O'Brien and the widespread corruption FFG engaged in.

You seem to be quite ignorant to the workings of FFG, probably because your only concern is to bash SF with unsubstantiated, anecdotal stories.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

I'm convinced of a UI as way forward but I'm equally as convinced that if SF lead the charge it will have less of a chance of happening, they may now well be the biggest nationalist party on the island but there are still far more nationalists on the island in its entirety who don't back them than do, plus they will never be trusted by unionism.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Ah, so you do want oppression of women!

You didn't answer about the LGBTQ+ community

Bland PR-like statements don't cut it, especially when accompanied by US evangelical style craziness

Nope, I respect how valuable human life is unlike you.

That would obviously explain your support for the PIRA 

Clearly as they were fighting a government that routinely opened fire on unarmed civilians because they were taking to the streets to demand their civil rights.

The free state establishment has much blood on its hands when it comes to the troubles.

Those 644 civilians the PIRA killed were key members of that government of course

The "elite", or something

To cite dead civilians on the streets of Derry as a legitimate justification for 644 other dead civilians is Orwellian

You're pontificating about civilians being killed when you're the only poster on here who defended the IRA that won your rotten state its independence going around murdering civilians.

You are at odds with yourself here, as I predicted, you have routinely shown yourself to be morally bankrupt once again.

Rotten state, really ? Go Angelo , obviously another shinner dim wit displaying exactly why SF will never be the most suitable party to lead our drive for UI

Absolutely a rotten state.

Imagine a state that covers up an atrocity like the Dublin-Monaghan bombing, the mass murder of its own citizens, who consistently turned a blind to the British state terrorism that was happening miles away from its own border on its own people. The same people who were ignoring these things were also happy to turn a blind eye to child abuse, were happy to flog its citizens so they could enrich people Larry Goodman, Denis O'Brien and the widespread corruption FFG engaged in.

You seem to be quite ignorant to the workings of FFG, probably because your only concern is to bash SF with unsubstantiated, anecdotal stories.

I'm well aware , I'm also well aware that very few countries are Lilly white and that insulting the people whose parents and grandparents built the country after independence is pretty well stupid

[imtommygunn]

I'm convinced of a UI as way forward but I'm equally as convinced that if SF lead the charge it will have less of a chance of happening, they may now well be the biggest nationalist party on the island but there are still far more nationalists on the island in its entirety who don't back them than do, plus they will never be trusted by unionism.

I honestly think that is a commonly held nationalist belief too. I have had the conversation with a number of people none of whom believe sf can deliver it. I believe that too. I am not sure who can but I hope the realisation drops soon and we have some other party comes in. I like several sdlp politicians however I think their leader is awful so imo no chance out of him.

[trueblue1234]

Ah, so you do want oppression of women!

You didn't answer about the LGBTQ+ community

Bland PR-like statements don't cut it, especially when accompanied by US evangelical style craziness

Nope, I respect how valuable human life is unlike you.

That would obviously explain your support for the PIRA 

Clearly as they were fighting a government that routinely opened fire on unarmed civilians because they were taking to the streets to demand their civil rights.

The free state establishment has much blood on its hands when it comes to the troubles.

Those 644 civilians the PIRA killed were key members of that government of course

The "elite", or something

To cite dead civilians on the streets of Derry as a legitimate justification for 644 other dead civilians is Orwellian

You're pontificating about civilians being killed when you're the only poster on here who defended the IRA that won your rotten state its independence going around murdering civilians.

You are at odds with yourself here, as I predicted, you have routinely shown yourself to be morally bankrupt once again.

Rotten state, really ? Go Angelo , obviously another shinner dim wit displaying exactly why SF will never be the most suitable party to lead our drive for UI

Absolutely a rotten state.

Imagine a state that covers up an atrocity like the Dublin-Monaghan bombing, the mass murder of its own citizens, who consistently turned a blind to the British state terrorism that was happening miles away from its own border on its own people. The same people who were ignoring these things were also happy to turn a blind eye to child abuse, were happy to flog its citizens so they could enrich people Larry Goodman, Denis O'Brien and the widespread corruption FFG engaged in.

You seem to be quite ignorant to the workings of FFG, probably because your only concern is to bash SF with unsubstantiated, anecdotal stories.

I'm well aware , I'm also well aware that very few countries are Lilly white and that insulting the people whose parents and grandparents built the country after independence is pretty well stupid

To be fair,  to paraphrase you, the truth is the truth. It might make unpleasant reading for some people but it is what it is.
*Edit - I should say I don't particularly agree with Angelo's view. But it shows how facts can be used to paint a certain slant on reality.

[clonadmad]

Ah, so you do want oppression of women!

You didn't answer about the LGBTQ+ community

Bland PR-like statements don't cut it, especially when accompanied by US evangelical style craziness

Nope, I respect how valuable human life is unlike you.

That would obviously explain your support for the PIRA 

Clearly as they were fighting a government that routinely opened fire on unarmed civilians because they were taking to the streets to demand their civil rights.

The free state establishment has much blood on its hands when it comes to the troubles.

Those 644 civilians the PIRA killed were key members of that government of course

The "elite", or something

To cite dead civilians on the streets of Derry as a legitimate justification for 644 other dead civilians is Orwellian

You're pontificating about civilians being killed when you're the only poster on here who defended the IRA that won your rotten state its independence going around murdering civilians.

You are at odds with yourself here, as I predicted, you have routinely shown yourself to be morally bankrupt once again.

Rotten state, really ? Go Angelo , obviously another shinner dim wit displaying exactly why SF will never be the most suitable party to lead our drive for UI

Absolutely a rotten state.

Imagine a state that covers up an atrocity like the Dublin-Monaghan bombing, the mass murder of its own citizens, who consistently turned a blind to the British state terrorism that was happening miles away from its own border on its own people. The same people who were ignoring these things were also happy to turn a blind eye to child abuse, were happy to flog its citizens so they could enrich people Larry Goodman, Denis O'Brien and the widespread corruption FFG engaged in.

You seem to be quite ignorant to the workings of FFG, probably because your only concern is to bash SF with unsubstantiated, anecdotal stories.

You won't be wanting a United Ireland with us in the south then?

Fair enough

[trueblue1234]

Perhaps a new Ireland will allow you to cleanse some of that history and make a new start.

[Angelo]

You won't be wanting a United Ireland with us in the south then?

Fair enough

You see this is where the Free Staters need a reality check. It's not your state.

It's a new Ireland to replace the two rotten states that partition brought about.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Ah, so you do want oppression of women!

You didn't answer about the LGBTQ+ community

Bland PR-like statements don't cut it, especially when accompanied by US evangelical style craziness

Nope, I respect how valuable human life is unlike you.

That would obviously explain your support for the PIRA 

Clearly as they were fighting a government that routinely opened fire on unarmed civilians because they were taking to the streets to demand their civil rights.

The free state establishment has much blood on its hands when it comes to the troubles.

Those 644 civilians the PIRA killed were key members of that government of course

The "elite", or something

To cite dead civilians on the streets of Derry as a legitimate justification for 644 other dead civilians is Orwellian

You're pontificating about civilians being killed when you're the only poster on here who defended the IRA that won your rotten state its independence going around murdering civilians.

You are at odds with yourself here, as I predicted, you have routinely shown yourself to be morally bankrupt once again.

Rotten state, really ? Go Angelo , obviously another shinner dim wit displaying exactly why SF will never be the most suitable party to lead our drive for UI

Absolutely a rotten state.

Imagine a state that covers up an atrocity like the Dublin-Monaghan bombing, the mass murder of its own citizens, who consistently turned a blind to the British state terrorism that was happening miles away from its own border on its own people. The same people who were ignoring these things were also happy to turn a blind eye to child abuse, were happy to flog its citizens so they could enrich people Larry Goodman, Denis O'Brien and the widespread corruption FFG engaged in.

You seem to be quite ignorant to the workings of FFG, probably because your only concern is to bash SF with unsubstantiated, anecdotal stories.

You won't be wanting a United Ireland with us in the south then?

Fair enough

Angelo- chief strategist for SF, worrying thing is that's not even far from the truth

[Snapchap]

It's weird that you're so pro-PIRA and yet are so anti-old-IRA

Speaking of the Old IRA, would you describe their campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign", Sid?

[grounded]

Perhaps a new Ireland will allow you to cleanse some of that history and make a new start.

This is the thing. Say 10 or 20 years from now. That will be 35-45 years since the end of the troubles. The majority of those voters in the North will thankfully have no idea of the savagery that went on. They will make the call.