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Messages - Target Man

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1
Laois / Re: Next Laois football manager
« on: August 13, 2017, 01:48:26 AM »
John Sugrue is capable, but why this county continually ignores it's own verges on idiotic.  Malachy McNulty  is tearing it up with Portlaoise this year, Clancy is doing a fine job with Graigue and there is Joe Higgins and Chris Conway.  Why in gods name to we continually go for someone who can never have the same passion for Laois Football no matter how hard they try.   Could you actually imagine Kerry in this position considering someone from Laois.  The Laois job is much more than a managers job at the moment it's going to a P R exercise among the clubs and sponsors.  This is not about a coach or manager this is actually about someone reigniting the fire in Laois Football.

It is most definitely about a manager. Why are the candidates you pointed out better than Sugrue?

If the only reason you can give is they were born in Laois....

2
Laois / Re: Next Laois football manager
« on: July 29, 2017, 04:11:39 PM »
I don't really care if we go outside or inside, just get whoever we think is best. Selection of outside candidates likely to be limited.

Im surprised John Sugrue is not being mentioned more, seems like the outstanding local candidate to me. The rest of the local candidates seem ,looking purely at results, to be a bit of a gamble. I think Conway would be good, but as with most of others hasnt enough of a record to make him a definite 1st choice for job. Mark Rooney, imo, has as good a record as most mentioned in this thread

If we go outside we need to get it right (easier said than done). Stay away from the Banty/Cribbin/Flanagan circuit of managers. In an ideal world I'd like James Horan but close to 0 chance of that. Someone like Colm Collins (if doesnt go back to Clare) might be an option, he has done a serious job with Clare.

The backroom team will be as important as the manager. County board needs to appoint the right man and back him fully. I see clubs meant to have nominations in by Fri. Seems very rushed, if one was of a suspicious nature one might think there is some sharp practice going on

3
Laois / Re: Laois 2017 - NHL and Leinster SHC
« on: June 07, 2017, 08:21:40 PM »
Not sure Keyser if the fact we were drawn in prelim round means we also get into munster group, County baller may well be correct (ie that draw of Laois or Westmeath may have been taken also as draw for Munster pot as draw would be between same two teams)

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Laois / Re: Leinster Senior Football Championship 2017
« on: June 07, 2017, 08:13:38 PM »
Clare, Down,Tipperary,Louth
Derry,Fermanagh, Armagh, Sligo, Offaly, longford,Westmeath, Wexford
Antrim, Laois, Carlow, Leitrim, Limerick,Waterford, Wicklow, London

Thats the bottom 20 teams according to league positions. Apart from Tipperary, who has had great underage success ? Who has a significantly better group of players than us? I would think we have as good players as at least 15 of those teams if not more. So I would think being a division 2 side is where this team could be if well managed, at the very least we should be comfortable in Division 3

Creedon has been very poor so far. No, I don't expect us to win All Irelands or Leinsters. I do expect us to do well against poor teams like Sligo, Antrim and Offaly. I also expect us to put in a battle against good (but not top) teams like Kildare, we might lose but we should at least be able to compete with them for most of the game. We dont have any divine right to beat teams I mentioned, but if the team is well prepared I dont see why we shouldn't.

Are there problems with our underage structure and player development? Absolutely, and we need to do work to improve them immediately. Are the players as good as we would like? Probably not. But Creedon hasn't got anywhere near the max out of them and himself and his management team are a substantial reason we have had disasterous results this year.

For those who think the manager doesn't matter, I could'nt disagree more. I'd be shocked if Jim Gavin couldn't have at least kept us in division 3, but I guess we'll never know. There are loads of examples of managers making a difference, its not the only factor but its an important factor. Colm Collins in Clare is a good example

Some of our players need also to take a serious look at their workrate and decision making in games. There are many of our more talented andexperienced players who are poor in these areas (I'm not questioning their commitment to Laois football, but it is a damning inditement of coaching they have received and their own ability to learn)

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Laois / Re: Laois 2017 - NHL and Leinster SHC
« on: June 06, 2017, 03:51:01 PM »
We can play losing semifinalists or quarter finalists I think.
 From the Gaa master fixtures.

All-Ireland  Championship 
 24.06.2017  (Sat)   Preliminary  Round  (If  approved  at  Congress  2017) Christy Ring  Winner  2017  v  Leinster  Quarter-Final  Loser

01.07.2017  (Sat)   Round  1  (Knock  out)   This  round  shall  involve  the  eight  teams  defeated  in  the  Munster  and  Leinster  Quarter-Finals (Or  the  Preliminary  Round  Winner)  and  Semi-Finals.  Teams  shall  be  drawn  from  two  bowls which  shall  be  as  follows: Group  1 Four  Leinster  Championship  Teams. Group  2 Three  Munster  plus  one  Leinster  Championship  Team.   (The  Leinster  Championship  Team  to  be  included in the  Munster  Group  shall,  where feasible,  be  one  of  the  two  Teams  that  qualified for the  Leinster  Quarter-Finals through  the  Provincial  Qualifier  Group. If  however  both  of  these  Teams  qualify  for  the Leinster  Final,  then the  replacement  shall  be  one  of  the  Leinster  Teams  defeated by them.  An  initial  Draw  shall  be  made  to  determine  the  Team  from  the  Leinster championship  which  is  to  be  included in  Bowl  2) The  Teams  shall  play on  a  Knock-Out  basis.  A  Draw  of  four  pairings of  Group  1  v Group  2 Teams,  with  avoidance  of  Repeat  Pairings,  shall  be  made. Group  1  v  Group  2 Group  1  v  Group  2 Group  1  v  Group  2 Group  1  v  Group  2 Venues  shall  be  on  a  Home  or  Away basis  and  shall  be  determined  by  a  Draw.* The  four  Winners  shall  progress  to  Round  2.


6
Laois / Re: The future of laois hurling
« on: May 30, 2017, 03:39:40 PM »
Be tough work out if team lists are first names only  ::)

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Laois / Re: Laois 2017 - NHL and Leinster SHC
« on: May 30, 2017, 11:53:54 AM »
While I think Eamon Kelly has done a reasonably good job so far, and it's true we lack players of requires standard, that doesn't mean it's unfair to question aspects of team selection or tactics. Not much point in discussing match otherwise


Why did we keep launching high balls on a physically dominated half forward line? Could we have brought Foyle a bit for puckouts?

With regard to reacting to sweeper, why didn't we use our own spare man more? Surely working the ball through the lines and playing short accurate ball to forwards, or waiting until we were far enough up the pitch to bypass sweeper and hit Foyle on edge of square would have been better options?

Team worked hard throughout, some good performances from Collier, Downey and in particular Cleere.

The use of Cha at 6 baffles me. We are losing an excellent forward to make a mediocre centre back. He would also bring some badly needed physicality to our half forward line


8
Laois / Re: The future of laois hurling
« on: May 30, 2017, 11:39:18 AM »
Going solely on the two Laois today articles:

Its poor form from Castletown NS

For a chairperson of cnmb to endorse playing first team players on a b team is incredible imo. The health and safety excuse doesn't wash either. Team should not have entered in competition if not physically  developed enough to compete with other teams.

It's unfortunate that Knockmay is school on wrong end of this. It's likely a lot of their players don't come from a strong gaa background, something like this can easily finish them with hurling. There's no point in talking about developing hurling in Portlaoise then letting stuff like this happen

9
Laois / Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« on: April 02, 2017, 10:42:50 PM »
No not happy but was annoyed at being called an idiot by several on here.   This is actually a serious business,  a lot of people are putting time and effort into raising money to be totally ignored and treated like idiots by the CB.  Have you ever been at a county convention how the clubs are ignored by the chosen few.  Have any people any idea how Peter Creedon got the job who choose him or what were the parameters of the appointment.  You don't matter to those that make the decisions in Laois we are all clowns in their eyes and long may the party continue.

I'm no fan of co
board, but have you evidence there was lack of due process in Creedons appointment nor are you just ranting for

10
Laois / Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« on: April 02, 2017, 10:38:51 PM »
Thinking the same SCFC. And some of their own club men involved. We would have won today with Seale in one corner and Hanrahan or Kehoe in the other. There last year but not this. I suppose that's Creedon's fault too. We have paid the price for not being good enough and our full back line in particular were atrocious. In fairness to Kelly and Strong, neither are corner backs. Some of those lads today have no interest in the jersey. If they did, they would show a lot more than they did. No names mentioned, and in fairness to them, they are only there because others can't or won't commit. Hard to look at though......
Maybe we would but the 3 lads you named have decided not to play for Laois this year. So we have to go on without them.

Everyone wants to throw out Creedon the gdas, the co board.

Co board is democratically elected, so your clubs can all sort that.

Gdas protected by employment laws, they're here to stay

Creedon I'm not that impressed​ with , probably give him the year. Not exactly a lineup of managers with outstanding cvs ready to take over.

At the end of all the hand wringing we all need to go back to our own clubs and work from the ground up. The gdas can't make x club produce x no of county players.  Clubs need their own structures in order rather than whining at co board

That said this is a bleak day for Laois football. Division 4 is a disaster for us. Imo opinion we have players good enough to make us a div 2 team. That should be our short term aim, as we need to be at least there to have a shot at making an impact on championship


11
Laois / Re: Laois 2017 - NHL and Leinster SHC
« on: April 01, 2017, 08:34:14 AM »
massive game tomorrow. Dropping to division 2 would have a huge negative impact imo. Hopefully can do it. Not too sure about the Cha at 6 experiment, he's not a natural defender from what I've seen of him, and is a massive loss from forward line

12
Laois / Re: The future of laois hurling
« on: April 01, 2017, 08:31:36 AM »
Confirmed,No referees available for any u12 games this year.

Ref it yourselves there lads,can see that working out well all right

whats the general approach in other counties? Dont think many use adult refs,but could be wrong. Possibly use refs from whatever the youth ref program is called.

Also the biggest driver of whether "ref it yourself" will work will be the behaviour or coaches and parents on the sideline


13
Laois / Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« on: April 01, 2017, 08:24:53 AM »
This is the story.

Last year we had an awful league campaign followed by a very poor championship campaign.

Lillis left and we were left in a very poor state, something that has been inevitable for years.

What did we need at that point?

A manager and background team that have experience with developing underage structures & have a proven pedigree with being successful in this area.

How long did it take for Tipp to get from poor side to good side and looking like they'll be a tier 1 side within a few years? It took a LOT of time. Years.

So, surprisingly enough we managed to get a manager and background team with proven pedigree with Tipperary.

Honestly, I would keep him even if we got relegated to div 4 & had a poor championship. It all needs time - him, his background team and other people involved with developing laois gaa underage need and deserve time.

Why? Because we need to give this years, we need to develop underage especially minor / u21 throughout the county. WHY OH WHY would you throw out a man with PROVEN pedigree in this area. Tipp are going from strength to strength and like it or not, it's a fact he had a significant influence on Tipp's turnaround.

To throw him out would be lunacy, in my opinion, ESPECIALLY given the clear as day context of players not available / injured / playing out of position / you name it.

Careful what you wish for. At least with this setup we're aiming to go in the right direction and have a holistic plan for minor / u21 / senior. It certainly beats the clueless mentality that we've witnessed for years now.

You can throw Roe in there or higgins or clancy but let's face it. That's more of the same like dempsey or lillis and not focussing on underage. We need a sea change in the county & that's what's being attempted. I can't for the life of me understand the short-sightedness of town1980 and B-abu. Granted it's only a very small portion of voices on here but I have to wonder if you're thinking about the long-term and I also have to wonder if you're seeing what's in front of your eyes : players missing from all over the park. Not up to standard ability from large numbers of our players. Players playing out of position etc. You don't seem to even acknowledge that. I'm not saying Creedon & his team are Jesus and his apostles - We're saying they have proven experience in getting a poor team across u-21 and senior into a better one over the course of years. We're a poor team weather you like it or not & we're trying to get better holistically but it needs time.

Ok, before I start this is not meant to be an anti Peter Creedon rant. I was happy enough with the appointment, he has a decent record and seems to speak a lot of sense on the game. Im not that impressed by what Ive seen so far, but we have had a lot of injuries and he deserves time to make his mark with the team. The players seem very positive about the setup, thats a huge plus imo.

Tony, you have stated a few times that Creedon has proven pedigree in developing underage. Have you got good evidence for this statement?
Below are some fact as far as I can ascertain (if there are mistakes apologies, Im not a specialist on Tipp football)

Creedon managed Tipp minors 2003-2006
He managed Tipp U21s 2006-2008.
They won no munster titles in this time.They didnt win a minor till 2011 and u21 in 2010

He managed Tipp Seniors 2012-2015. He has a decent record, generally beating teams you would expect him to beat (an underrated trait in managers), losing to better teams. Liam Kearns had better results last year, with what was a weaker panel on paper

Now Im sure he has had some positive effect on Tipp football, there are good signs such as all the teams keeping him 3+ years. But as someone posted earlier in thread its unlikely he single handedly lifted Tipp football on his own. I'm pretty sure John Evans likes to take some credit (rightly or wrongly), David Power won an all Ireland to name two I've heard of. Again I dont know all the facts he may have been hugely influential in their underage structures and been the main driver of a ll this

Hes a manager with a decent record, but I think its been inflated a bit by some.

Also wheres the evidence of this "holistic" plan for Laois football? Creedon was appointed as manager of senior and u21 teams (although the 2nd title mysteriously moved to Gary Kavanagh) with some vague line about input to minor team. Id be surprised if he has had any input into structures, I dont see much evidence of the county board driving a plan either.  If we want a holistic plan it needs to include clubs,school and county from U6 up. A director of football (preferably well paid) needs to be appointed to oversee it, imo it would be both undesireable and impractical for this to be the County senior manager.

Best of luck to the lads Sunday. I think we'll win but will be very tough in Tullamore, always hard get over line when lacking confidence after losing a few games. Dropping to division 4 would be a disaster, we would need a very impressive championship to make up for it.

14
Laois / Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« on: February 26, 2017, 10:03:27 AM »
And we're paying an outside manager for this??
Still better value for money than Lillis

On what basis? I wouldn't rule out Creedon being a success yet, but at the moment we are at least as bad as last year

I thought Donie Kingston and Kelly were good, not much to pick out other than that. Sideline slow to make changes, four if not five of our forwards struggled badly. Some of our younger players do not look ready. Buggie and O'Reilly I think have great potential but not performing at the moment. I find the selection of lutrell at midfield very strange, JOL actually played as a corner forward for a portion of second half.

Defensively we made silly errors, a couple of scores came from lads being drawn to ball rather than tracking own man

Surely Sean Moore worth giving a chance up front?

We have players to come back, but still these performances are worrying. Not showing enough quality up front to break down defences

15
Laois / Re: Allianz Football League 2017 - Division 3
« on: February 12, 2017, 07:54:05 PM »
Well done to the lads, wasn't there so no idea if performance was good or if we were lucky etc. Must have at least shown some bottle to come back and win. Massive result, especially given players we were missing, which puts us right back in the hunt for promotion.

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