Leinster Championship 2020

[seafoid]

Anyone who seriously believes that all the other Leinster counties needs to do is work more and train harder to catch up with the Dubs needs to be led away quietly to a home for the bewildered.
They'd be Trump supporters if they lived on the other side of the Atlantic.

Dublin fans are a bit like unionists. They want the ascendancy and everything stacked in their favour and are not interested in a level playing field.

The GAA see Dublin GAA as a cashcow and that's all that matters to them.

Part of the problem with this "debate" is that like so many other things in life now, it's being treated largely as a culture war based on feelings rather than facts and context - in that sort of environment, it's very difficult to get any sort of honest debate going 

The comments above are a good example of this

Certain commentators in the media have fuelled this (hello Mr. McKenna, hello Mr. Parkinson) and what comes from their mouths or pens can be generally be treated with the same sort of seriousness as one would extend to a Breitbart article

No need for gaslighting,  Sid
0
6 in a row
54 point winning margin in 3 Leinster matches

[Angelo]

Dublin fans are a bit like unionists. They want the ascendancy and everything stacked in their favour and are not interested in a level playing field.

The GAA see Dublin GAA as a cashcow and that's all that matters to them.

And you wonder why Dubs don't want to know.

The howl of culchie losers.

I've put up the reason they don't want to know. They don't want a fair fight, they want every single factor tilted in their favour before a ball is kicked. You just validate that viewpoint.

[northsideboy]

Dublin fans are a bit like unionists. They want the ascendancy and everything stacked in their favour and are not interested in a level playing field.

The GAA see Dublin GAA as a cashcow and that's all that matters to them.

And you wonder why Dubs don't want to know.

The howl of culchie losers.

I've put up the reason they don't want to know. They don't want a fair fight, they want every single factor tilted in their favour before a ball is kicked. You just validate that viewpoint.

You're whining as bad as any unionist could. And as bitter!

[sid waddell]

Anyone who seriously believes that all the other Leinster counties needs to do is work more and train harder to catch up with the Dubs needs to be led away quietly to a home for the bewildered.
They'd be Trump supporters if they lived on the other side of the Atlantic.

Dublin fans are a bit like unionists. They want the ascendancy and everything stacked in their favour and are not interested in a level playing field.

The GAA see Dublin GAA as a cashcow and that's all that matters to them.

Part of the problem with this "debate" is that like so many other things in life now, it's being treated largely as a culture war based on feelings rather than facts and context - in that sort of environment, it's very difficult to get any sort of honest debate going 

The comments above are a good example of this

Certain commentators in the media have fuelled this (hello Mr. McKenna, hello Mr. Parkinson) and what comes from their mouths or pens can be generally be treated with the same sort of seriousness as one would extend to a Breitbart article

That may all be true.

But at what point do you Dubs even get bored?

Mayo will give you a game. Kerry too. You'll still beat them both in the end nine times out of ten.

And that's it.

Is one relatively tight game every year before the inevitable Sam Maguire something Dublin fans are going to continue to look forward to?

It would be one thing if the team's success was based on a core coming through and developing together like most successful county sides have been, but its not. There is no end in sight.

As a Donegal fan, we got our arses handed to us yesterday in a sickening defeat (not because it was Cavan - I'm delighted for them). But, had everything gone to script, I would have enjoyed winning a third Ulster in a row for the first time, but not extracted much major satisfaction out of the title itself. And that's Donegal, a decent team, but with problems functioning in the face of serious intensity. But one which, after all, had fairly handily won the last two Ulster titles. But also nothing like the relentless, remorseless, unparalleled, historically greatest ever side that Dublin are.

If OUR benchmark as supporters was beginning to move past an Ulster title (obviously no longer valid) and wondering how close we might be able to get to Dublin, then what is there to keep Dublin supporters engaged?

There's nothing left to aim for beyond breaking your own AI title-winning sequence every year.

But all the same things were said about Kilkenny too

For the record, yes, there's no question that most of Dublin's matches in Leinster over the last six or seven years have been boring and that when you win a lot of titles in a row it gets less special for supporters as it goes on - Dublin have reached that point now alright with the five in a row - if Dublin lost to Cavan or Mayo or Tipp I think it would be great for the game

But it isn't Dublin's fault that most of their wins are boring, no more than it was Kilkenny's fault that their matches in Leinster for years were boring or Crossmaglen's fault that them winning 13 Armagh titles in a row was boring or New Zealand's fault that them constantly winning in rugby was boring or Celtic's nine in a row was boring or Phil Taylor's fault that his relentless winning was boring

All these dynasties were thought to be impenetrable and unbeatable, but they weren't - and Celtic aren't going to be doing ten in a row

Dublin cannot sign players - and people make structures and teams - if you take key people out, yes, the thing can crumble, or at least not be as potent

Gavin is already gone, and we still don't know whether Dessie Farrell is anywhere near as good a manager, Cluxton will be gone soon and if there's one person that has ever driven a winning culture in a team in any sport, it is him

Some day sooner or later Dublin will be beaten and it will go down in history

Cavan were beaten by 16 points by Tyrone last year - did they lie down afterwards and say what's the point?

Even if Dublin do thrash them, and they probably will, what that Cavan team did yesterday and this year will be talked about for decades

[sid waddell]

Dublin fans are a bit like unionists. They want the ascendancy and everything stacked in their favour and are not interested in a level playing field.

The GAA see Dublin GAA as a cashcow and that's all that matters to them.

And you wonder why Dubs don't want to know.

The howl of culchie losers.

I've put up the reason they don't want to know. They don't want a fair fight, they want every single factor tilted in their favour before a ball is kicked. You just validate that viewpoint.

I presume as a Celtic supporter you're howling for a "fair fight" in the Scottish Premier League, which would mean flat salary caps and flat transfer fee caps which would mean Celtic could spend no more than Hamilton Accies

I presume you would think it's incredibly boring if Celtic were to win ten in a row and would not celebrate it at all

Frankly I'm flabbergasted you seem to have such a keen interest in Celtic's domestic fortunes at all, surely it's too boring for you?

Serie A is another competition which seems totally pointless according to your criteria but as far as I remember you're also a big fan of that - Juventus have won nine in a row there too and haven't been challenged for many of those titles

[LCohen]

Talk of "fault" is way off the mark. It's not Dublin's fault that they are dominant. But it's not the case that the motivation behind the debate is to punish Dublin.

The issue is the limit to which dominance can be tolerated before it destroys the game. GAA is amateur and has participation at its heart. If you are asking a young lad in other Leinster counties (and beyond) to invest so much in the game but with zero chance of success then the numbers drifting away will increase and increase to a level that hurts the game, the organisation and in my view, society.

Rushing in to changes may not be the wisest thing but an open mind to change and careful consideration should be encouraged

[Silkyskillssunshinee]

The system is broken. I don't think any reasonable person who doesn't have a bias against Dublin would begrudge them of the fact they're maximising resources. It's not their fault. They were a sleeping giant for so long and have now woken up.

Dublin are exposing the flaws of the inter-county structure. And for anyone who responds with 'Sure why aren't their hurlers dominating then?' Just look at how much they have improved over the last decade in hurling. In 2010, Kilkenny beat them by 21 points. Fast forward to 2020, and Dublin get within a single point of the same opponents. They will eventually take over the hurling scene as well and will become unstoppable in both hurling and football.


Now, it's time for GAA to come up with solutions in order to make sure that the All-Ireland becomes a competitive and healthy Championship again, where the winner isn't already decided before the league campaigns even begin.

[From the Bunker]

Forgot to say - well done Dublin.

I'm sure they will go on to represent the province of Leinster with distinction. They usually do.

They really are a once in a generation group!

[dublin7]

Dublin fans are a bit like unionists. They want the ascendancy and everything stacked in their favour and are not interested in a level playing field.

The GAA see Dublin GAA as a cashcow and that's all that matters to them.

And you wonder why Dubs don't want to know.

The howl of culchie losers.

I've put up the reason they don't want to know. They don't want a fair fight, they want every single factor tilted in their favour before a ball is kicked. You just validate that viewpoint.

It's infuriating when posters won't answer questions when asked. Now you know how people feel when they ask you for answers. Pot, kettle, black spring to mind

I've no problem with Dublin having their funding cut, but it shouldn't just be handed straight over to the other county boards/counties. Some counties just don't have the knowledge/experience to deal with the amount of money involved in inter county football and without a strategic plant you're throwing away good money after bad

Like any well run organization a plan/budget should be put together by county boards showing how they would spend the funding. If the county board doesn't have the ability to run a long term scheme like this then maybe approach Croke Park for help with administrating the scheme.

Even with these things in place some county boards will screw it up anyway. There was a long term plan put together by big hitters in Offaly to bring up hurling/football standards through coaching GDOs etc and a presentation made to the county board who said thanks very much and simply ignored it and didn't even try to implement it

[Lar Naparka]

Kildare unfortunately as I am from kildare are just not very good at football. Our history shows that. We should be better but we aren't and aren't going to get better with no hope of competing for a province.

My "narrative" Sid is that population is the biggest factor. If you want to disagree with that then fair enough

Kildare unfortunately as I am from kildare are just not very good at football. Our history shows that.
I think your history shows that Kildare was fast becoming a force to be reckoned with in the decade prior to 2005- a seminal year in many ways for Leinster football. You won two Leinsters in that decade and many would say you could/should have won an AI in 2000.
I guess football has regressed a bit since then in the land of the Lilywhites.
The same can be said of the once mighty power, the Royal County.
Meath won three Leinsters in the decade in question- one undeserved one since tells its own tale, Meath like Kildare has fallen on hard times.

While we are on the subject, the same can be said for every other county, bar Dublin. 
Laois, Offaly and Westmeath won a title apiece and Wexford and Wicklow showed marked signs of progress.
I think it's fair to say that this particular rising tide lifted all Leinster boats with the possible exception of Carlow and Louth.

To be quite clear, I am not blaming Dublin for the crisis that has come about since 2005.
The Dubs   are only doing what any other county would do in similar circumstances. The silence from other county boards has been deafening.
If God helps those who help themselves, surely the same could be said about the GAA?

[Lar Naparka]

Anyone who seriously believes that all the other Leinster counties needs to do is work more and train harder to catch up with the Dubs needs to be led away quietly to a home for the bewildered.
They'd be Trump supporters if they lived on the other side of the Atlantic.

Dublin fans are a bit like unionists. They want the ascendancy and everything stacked in their favour and are not interested in a level playing field.

The GAA see Dublin GAA as a cashcow and that's all that matters to them.

Part of the problem with this "debate" is that like so many other things in life now, it's being treated largely as a culture war based on feelings rather than facts and context - in that sort of environment, it's very difficult to get any sort of honest debate going 

The comments above are a good example of this

Certain commentators in the media have fuelled this (hello Mr. McKenna, hello Mr. Parkinson) and what comes from their mouths or pens can be generally be treated with the same sort of seriousness as one would extend to a Breitbart article

Sid, I went on to give solid, cogent reasons for what I said. The stats are there to back me up.
I gave "facts and context."
You came back with a blanker condemnation of what I had to say without backing what you had to say by one iota of fact or reason.

[Lar Naparka]

It's me again I'm afraid.
I just want to clear up a misunderstanding as I want to say that the opening  paragraph of what Sid quoted above was not directed at any Dub supporter on this board or anywhere else.
Sid, Hound and just about all of the rest can state their position with resorting to obscenities or schoolyard abuse like one particular  non-Dub poster has done more than once. (For the curious, that's Armagh 18.)

[MayoBuck]

Dublin fans are a bit like unionists. They want the ascendancy and everything stacked in their favour and are not interested in a level playing field.

The GAA see Dublin GAA as a cashcow and that's all that matters to them.

And you wonder why Dubs don't want to know.

The howl of culchie losers.

I've put up the reason they don't want to know. They don't want a fair fight, they want every single factor tilted in their favour before a ball is kicked. You just validate that viewpoint.

It's infuriating when posters won't answer questions when asked. Now you know how people feel when they ask you for answers. Pot, kettle, black spring to mind

I've no problem with Dublin having their funding cut, but it shouldn't just be handed straight over to the other county boards/counties. Some counties just don't have the knowledge/experience to deal with the amount of money involved in inter county football and without a strategic plant you're throwing away good money after bad

Like any well run organization a plan/budget should be put together by county boards showing how they would spend the funding. If the county board doesn't have the ability to run a long term scheme like this then maybe approach Croke Park for help with administrating the scheme.

Even with these things in place some county boards will screw it up anyway. There was a long term plan put together by big hitters in Offaly to bring up hurling/football standards through coaching GDOs etc and a presentation made to the county board who said thanks very much and simply ignored it and didn't even try to implement it

The debate around Dublin's advantages always follow the same path. Dubs will 1st deny any advantage exists - what about kerry/Kilkenny, golden generation, money doesn't kick points, competing sports etc. Eventually they will accept the advantages but other county boards are incompetent so we can't give them any money.

Why did the GAA decide in 2003/04 that Dublin needed to be stronger? The 2nd most successful football county historically and always the top team in Leinster. Why did they get 5m of grants from the government between 2005 and 2009 when everyone else got nothing?

[From the Bunker]

Dublin fans are a bit like unionists. They want the ascendancy and everything stacked in their favour and are not interested in a level playing field.

The GAA see Dublin GAA as a cashcow and that's all that matters to them.

And you wonder why Dubs don't want to know.

The howl of culchie losers.

I've put up the reason they don't want to know. They don't want a fair fight, they want every single factor tilted in their favour before a ball is kicked. You just validate that viewpoint.

It's infuriating when posters won't answer questions when asked. Now you know how people feel when they ask you for answers. Pot, kettle, black spring to mind

I've no problem with Dublin having their funding cut, but it shouldn't just be handed straight over to the other county boards/counties. Some counties just don't have the knowledge/experience to deal with the amount of money involved in inter county football and without a strategic plant you're throwing away good money after bad

Like any well run organization a plan/budget should be put together by county boards showing how they would spend the funding. If the county board doesn't have the ability to run a long term scheme like this then maybe approach Croke Park for help with administrating the scheme.

Even with these things in place some county boards will screw it up anyway. There was a long term plan put together by big hitters in Offaly to bring up hurling/football standards through coaching GDOs etc and a presentation made to the county board who said thanks very much and simply ignored it and didn't even try to implement it

The debate around Dublin's advantages always follow the same path. Dubs will 1st deny any advantage exists - what about kerry/Kilkenny, golden generation, money doesn't kick points, competing sports etc. Eventually they will accept the advantages but other county boards are incompetent so we can't give them any money.

Why did the GAA decide in 2003/04 that Dublin needed to be stronger? The 2nd most successful football county historically and always the top team in Leinster. Why did they get 5m of grants from the government between 2005 and 2009 when everyone else got nothing?

Here is your answer. A new Stadium just finished at that time that needed people to fill it!

A half empty Leinster final between Laois and Westmeath was never going to keep the Vendors happy.

[imtommygunn]

On another note Dublin club football is ridiculously strong. There are three or four teams who would be competitive for the all Ireland. No other county would have that.

Hurling is very strong too.

I don't think kk hurling is a good comparison either. Some of the best ever were in that team. Now they're gone kk aren't the same level at all. An example I would use for Dublin is Bernard brogan and even diarmuid Connolly. When any other county loses a player of the year material player they usually struggle to replace them. Dublin have lost two and not even batted an eyelid. The current dominance has just been a conveyor belt with absolutely no sign of stopping.

Additionally one of the biggest things I find the dubs dominate on is pace and power. You watch say Tyrone and someone like Marty Donnelly. When he plays against anyone bar Dublin his pace and power stand out. When he plays Dublin he is not even as pacy or powerful as Dublin's weakest player. That is not purely down to having the best set of players ever it's the resources they have available.