Leinster Championship 2020

Started by thejuice, November 01, 2020, 09:31:08 AM

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sid waddell

Quote from: caprea on November 23, 2020, 12:03:06 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2020, 11:55:49 AM
Cork had a population of 542k at the last census

Kilkenny had 99k

That's not far off the same population ratio as Dublin to Meath

Yet Cork haven't won a hurling All-Ireland for 15 years while Kilkenny have won 8 in that time

What's going on?

Kilkenny have won 6 more hurling titles than cork over the history of the GAA. Kerry have won, is it around 12 more, than Dublin in football.

Population isn't the be all, end all. There are other factors that make Kilkenny and kerry special but at the end of the day population is the biggest factor in the destination of GAA trophies.

Yet the narrative is that it is

Which you then imply a sentence later

When you say "there are other factors" as regards Kerry and Kilkenny, that essentially boils down to "they work harder"

sid waddell

Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 23, 2020, 12:06:02 PM
This bizarre narrative being put forward that Dublin GAA volunteer better and volunteer harder is quite frankly an insult to every voluntary organisation in the country. It's disingenuous and quite frankly insulting.

That Dublin players work harder that their counterparts is also disingenuous and quite frankly insulting.

Dublin players as a collective travel less, have more more more spent on physical preparation, mental preparation, technical preparation, tactical preparation and lifestyle enhancements that any other county in the history of the GAA. To ignore the co-relationship between money spent and success is to ignore the history of professional sport over the last 150 years.

The sooner more players like John Connellan call out this charade for what it is the better.

Romantic GAA is long dead. It died the day the Government, The GAA and Dublin go into bed together and have been swapping spit ever since.

Why have Donegal and Mayo consistently been much more competitive than Kildare and Meath over the last 20 years?

Kildare and Meath have bigger populations - and younger populations, I would strongly imagine - and are far better situated economically than Donegal and Mayo

They should be powerhouses





caprea

Kildare unfortunately as I am from kildare are just not very good at football. Our history shows that. We should be better but we aren't and aren't going to get better with no hope of competing for a province.

My "narrative" Sid is that population is the biggest factor. If you want to disagree with that then fair enough

sid waddell

Quote from: caprea on November 23, 2020, 12:34:09 PM
Kildare unfortunately as I am from kildare are just not very good at football. Our history shows that. We should be better but we aren't and aren't going to get better with no hope of competing for a province.

My "narrative" Sid is that population is the biggest factor. If you want to disagree with that then fair enough
Nobody said population isn't a factor, but it also isn't the be all and end all either - and all representative sport has inherent population imbalances

I gave the example of Cork having over five times the population of Kilkenny yet Kilkenny have won eight All-Irelands since Cork last won one

Saying "we are not very good at football" is not an excuse - it just showcases the attitude that is holding a county like Kildare back

Kildare had 222k at the last census - Kerry for comparison had 147k, Mayo 130k

Kildare has everything in place to be one of the top football counties on a consistent basis, except attitude, organisation, and the knowledge of what it takes and the willingness to follow through on that

Kildare people may bristle at this, but it's the brutal truth


caprea

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2020, 12:45:54 PM
Quote from: caprea on November 23, 2020, 12:34:09 PM
Kildare unfortunately as I am from kildare are just not very good at football. Our history shows that. We should be better but we aren't and aren't going to get better with no hope of competing for a province.

My "narrative" Sid is that population is the biggest factor. If you want to disagree with that then fair enough
Nobody said population isn't a factor, but it also isn't the be all and end all either - and all representative sport has inherent population imbalances

I gave the example of Cork having over five times the population of Kilkenny yet Kilkenny have won eight All-Irelands since Cork last won one

Saying "we are not very good at football" is not an excuse - it just showcases the attitude that is holding a county like Kildare back

Kildare had 222k at the last census - Kerry for comparison had 147k, Mayo 130k

Kildare has everything in place to be one of the top football counties on a consistent basis, except attitude, organisation, and the knowledge of what it takes and the willingness to follow through on that

Kildare people may bristle at this, but it's the brutal truth

Kildare have had 133 years to become good at football. We never have. It's never going to happen. And certainly not with a behomeath like Dublin on our doorstep.

Dublin won Leinster football. Congratulations.

Baile Brigín 2

Quote from: caprea on November 23, 2020, 12:48:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2020, 12:45:54 PM
Quote from: caprea on November 23, 2020, 12:34:09 PM
Kildare unfortunately as I am from kildare are just not very good at football. Our history shows that. We should be better but we aren't and aren't going to get better with no hope of competing for a province.

My "narrative" Sid is that population is the biggest factor. If you want to disagree with that then fair enough
Nobody said population isn't a factor, but it also isn't the be all and end all either - and all representative sport has inherent population imbalances

I gave the example of Cork having over five times the population of Kilkenny yet Kilkenny have won eight All-Irelands since Cork last won one

Saying "we are not very good at football" is not an excuse - it just showcases the attitude that is holding a county like Kildare back

Kildare had 222k at the last census - Kerry for comparison had 147k, Mayo 130k

Kildare has everything in place to be one of the top football counties on a consistent basis, except attitude, organisation, and the knowledge of what it takes and the willingness to follow through on that

Kildare people may bristle at this, but it's the brutal truth

Kildare have had 133 years to become good at football. We never have. It's never going to happen. And certainly not with a behomeath like Dublin on our doorstep.

Dublin won Leinster football. Congratulations.

And when Dublin decided to change that attitude somehow Dublin were wrong.

caprea

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 23, 2020, 12:56:58 PM
Quote from: caprea on November 23, 2020, 12:48:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2020, 12:45:54 PM
Quote from: caprea on November 23, 2020, 12:34:09 PM
Kildare unfortunately as I am from kildare are just not very good at football. Our history shows that. We should be better but we aren't and aren't going to get better with no hope of competing for a province.

My "narrative" Sid is that population is the biggest factor. If you want to disagree with that then fair enough
Nobody said population isn't a factor, but it also isn't the be all and end all either - and all representative sport has inherent population imbalances

I gave the example of Cork having over five times the population of Kilkenny yet Kilkenny have won eight All-Irelands since Cork last won one

Saying "we are not very good at football" is not an excuse - it just showcases the attitude that is holding a county like Kildare back

Kildare had 222k at the last census - Kerry for comparison had 147k, Mayo 130k

Kildare has everything in place to be one of the top football counties on a consistent basis, except attitude, organisation, and the knowledge of what it takes and the willingness to follow through on that

Kildare people may bristle at this, but it's the brutal truth

Kildare have had 133 years to become good at football. We never have. It's never going to happen. And certainly not with a behomeath like Dublin on our doorstep.

Dublin won Leinster football. Congratulations.

And when Dublin decided to change that attitude somehow Dublin were wrong.

Congratulations.

seafoid

Quote from: sid waddell on November 23, 2020, 12:27:58 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 23, 2020, 12:06:02 PM
This bizarre narrative being put forward that Dublin GAA volunteer better and volunteer harder is quite frankly an insult to every voluntary organisation in the country. It's disingenuous and quite frankly insulting.

That Dublin players work harder that their counterparts is also disingenuous and quite frankly insulting.

Dublin players as a collective travel less, have more more more spent on physical preparation, mental preparation, technical preparation, tactical preparation and lifestyle enhancements that any other county in the history of the GAA. To ignore the co-relationship between money spent and success is to ignore the history of professional sport over the last 150 years.

The sooner more players like John Connellan call out this charade for what it is the better.

Romantic GAA is long dead. It died the day the Government, The GAA and Dublin go into bed together and have been swapping spit ever since.

Why have Donegal and Mayo consistently been much more competitive than Kildare and Meath over the last 20 years?

Kildare and Meath have bigger populations - and younger populations, I would strongly imagine - and are far better situated economically than Donegal and Mayo

They should be powerhouses
Donegal and Mayo won a combined 1 all Ireland over 20 years, Sid
Pick 2 other teams who were "successful"
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Lar Naparka

Anyone who seriously believes that all the other Leinster counties needs to do is work more and train harder to catch up with the Dubs needs to be led away quietly to a home for the bewildered.
They'd be Trump supporters if they lived on the other side of the Atlantic.
Can any rational being genuinely believe that the other 11 counties have stood, or sat, idly by since 2005 when the present Dublin run of success began?
There has been one solitary exception (2010) but, spin it anyway you like, 14 out of 15 cannot be mere coincidence.

After all, from 1995 until 2004, ten years, a total of six counties won the title. For the curious, they were Meath (3), Dublin (2), Kildare (2) and Offaly, Laois, Westmeath one each.
So, has Dubliin streaked ahead of the rest, from 2005 until the present or have the others been hit by a collective bout of inertia and sat on their arses ever since?

Or did Dublin's grip on the Leinster crown begin when the then Dublin chairman, John Bailey approached the government, aka Berties Ahern,looking for finance to keep Dublin's head above water. He found the native of Drumcondra very willing to help.

Dublin needs every cent it can get to survive.
Only a tiny percentage of the general public, less by far than in any other county, participate at club level.
There's a preponderance of super-sized clubs that draw their members from a very wide area hence no parochial element in their makeup.
The general Finglas region has the same population (approximately) as the whole of County Cavan.
According to the Cavan GAA site, the county has 41 registered clubs- Finglas has just one.

Dubs can point to the big crowds that turn out for glamour games but that's drawn from a single county that has over a third of the country's population and this needs to be kept in context.
Having said all of the above, carving Dublin up in any way would be a total disaster as none of the component parts would have enough clubs to survive- the present basket case model barely keeps going as things stand.
But, if something is not done to curb Dublin's dominance, the GAA will be banjaxed anyway.

What gives if the unstoppable force meets the immovable mass?
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Lar Naparka

Quote from: Rossfan on November 23, 2020, 01:22:37 PM
And what is your solution Lar?
My solution Ross?
For the purposes of this discussion, my personal two cents worth is, well, worth two cents. ;D

My personal feelings won't change a comma of the stats I've quoted.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

Rossfan

Arrah gwan Lairín....it's an oul discussion forum so give us your thoughts.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

seafoid

Quote from: Rossfan on November 23, 2020, 01:22:37 PM
And what is your solution Lar?
Maybe all all Irelands beyond 3 in a row won by the Dubs deemed null and void.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

trileacman

You can split dublins senior side without splitting their club scene into two counties.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

Eire90

Dublin club teams are not dominating lienster and their hurling team dont dominate either.