A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

Started by winghalfback, May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

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Quote from: T Fearon on December 06, 2017, 06:15:21 PM
I am not saying there wasn't discrimination,but it was exaggerated,as my own family experiences in Portadown.It certainly didn't impact at all on the catholic middle classes.Without access to free education,those who brought about radical change,like Hume,Devlin etc would never have emerged

I know I shouldn't as looking for attention but to generalise from your family's situation to the entire population is silly, unemployment rates for Catholics in the 1983 Household survey were 2.5 times worse than for protestants, so really exaggerated (and this 16 years after the civil rights movement started).
O'Neills Therapist

T Fearon

1983? That was nearly 40 years ago.We are talking here about unskilled labour or potential labour,many of whom probably didn't want to work.The discrimination was bad but not nearly as bad as myth would have it,and the professional classes never suffered one iota.Compare this with the South at the time with no welfare state and many families and communities decimated by enforced economic emigration.

The Unionist big house rulers of the 20th century treated Shankhill Protestant working classes etc with the utmost contempt.

Rossfan

Jasus now he's telling us we had no social welfare here in 1983 :-\
And is he implying that Northern Catholics were too lazy to work?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

T Fearon

I wouldn't expect you to understand but a lot of households with large families up here attracted benefit levels that made employment not worthwhile.Those large families were invariably catholic.

Dougal Maguire

Quote from: T Fearon on December 06, 2017, 06:15:21 PM
I am not saying there wasn't discrimination,but it was exaggerated,as my own family experiences in Portadown.It certainly didn't impact at all on the catholic middle classes.Without access to free education,those who brought about radical change,like Hume,Devlin etc would never have emerged
Yeah?  Tell that to Catholics looking for Council houses.
Careful now

Owen Brannigan

Quote from: T Fearon on December 06, 2017, 06:15:21 PM
I am not saying there wasn't discrimination,but it was exaggerated,as my own family experiences in Portadown.It certainly didn't impact at all on the catholic middle classes.Without access to free education,those who brought about radical change,like Hume,Devlin etc would never have emerged

I think you will find that Paddy Devlin didn't avail of much of the free education, he was born in 1925 and free education at secondary level didn't become available until 1947.


seafoid

Quote from: T Fearon on December 06, 2017, 06:15:21 PM
I am not saying there wasn't discrimination,but it was exaggerated,as my own family experiences in Portadown.It certainly didn't impact at all on the catholic middle classes.Without access to free education,those who brought about radical change,like Hume,Devlin etc would never have emerged
If it was all tickety boo the NI state would not have collapsed into inter communal violence in the late 60s  . The Unionists could have been decent but it always was less attractive than the status quo.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

red hander

Quote from: T Fearon on December 06, 2017, 06:15:21 PM
I am not saying there wasn't discrimination,but it was exaggerated,as my own family experiences in Portadown.It certainly didn't impact at all on the catholic middle classes.Without access to free education,those who brought about radical change,like Hume,Devlin etc would never have emerged

This is the mantra of unionism used to try and blame one side for the last 40 years. I'm saddened, but not surprised, that you are also repeating this bullshit, especially being from Portadown, whose nationalist population suffered more than many under the loyalist jackboot.

T Fearon

#1688
Look,ffs,my parents both left school at 14,with no qualifications.They were never unemployed in their lives.We lived in Portadown,a town that was entirely mixed until the troubles/IRA campaign started  (which were unnecessary according to the SDLP and all Freestate parties) drove people into sectarian housing,and the driving out was done on both sides.We never had a moment's trouble with anyone of a different religion,and up to 1990 we lived in predominantly Protestant neighbourhoods.Courtesy of British funded education myself and late brother (who would,despite coming from a very low socio economic background,become a GP),both attained third level education and social mobility my parents could only dream of.

We were nothing special,we worked hard to avail of all opportunities,and sacrifices made by our parents,which everyone else had.So forgive me for not feeling deprived or discriminated against.

BennyCake

Not all were as lucky as your parents, T.

Heard the story many times Catholics going for jobs. What school/Sunday school did you go to? St Patrick's, Sacred Heart... We'll let you know. Catholics were abused by the system. Generation after generation in dirty filthy low paid jobs (if lucky), their children the same. No chance for bettering themselves. Protestant Sammy's snottery-arsed son get a job ahead of a hardworking catholic man with a family. Many who did get jobs suffered serious sectarian abuse. It was pure rotten. And that's just employment.

T Fearon

I don't believe it was half as bad as it was made out.There were a lot of people like the proverbial stammerer who failed to get a newsreader's job and attributed it to being a Catholic.I know people who attribute all of their lifelong misfortunes to the fact that they were Catholics,ffs.My parents were never lucky,they were typical of their era,hard working,not ambitious,decent and honest as the day is long,and simply hopeful that their two boys would make the most of opportunities they never had.Now if that could all be done in "Black" Portadown it could have been done anywhere by any Catholic.

And I'm not even going to mention the Catholics born with the silver spoons in their mouths that lived well away from the riff raff Catholics and Protestants of the Lower Order.

Dougal Maguire

So why is it only n recent years that Catholics made it to the top in the Civil Service. I know you're a wind up merchant but the extremes you'll go to get an arguement going are unreal. You appear to lead a sad empty life spending your time posting on Internet forums where you post what should be private information about yourself to people who couldn't give a toss about you and doing silly competitions in magazines.
Careful now

red hander

Quote from: T Fearon on December 06, 2017, 10:10:19 PM
Look,ffs,my parents both left school at 14,with no qualifications.They were never unemployed in their lives.We lived in Portadown,a town that was entirely mixed until the troubles/IRA campaign started  (which were unnecessary according to the SDLP and all Freestate parties) drove people into sectarian housing,and the driving out was done on both sides.We never had a moment's trouble with anyone of a different religion,and up to 1990 we lived in predominantly Protestant neighbourhoods.Courtesy of British funded education myself and late brother (who would,despite coming from a very low socio economic background,become a GP),both attained third level education and social mobility my parents could only dream of.

We were nothing special,we worked hard to avail of all opportunities,and sacrifices made by our parents,which everyone else had.So forgive me for not feeling deprived or discriminated against.

My family on my mother's side were Tunnel born and bred. That wasn't their experience going all the way back to partition and before. It was the big bad IRA's fault  ::)

T Fearon

#1693
Maurice Hayes,Catholic and widely credited with Down GAAs emergence in the 1960s,was NI Ombudsman,decades ago.

I can only go from my own experience,discrimination was not nearly as bad as made out,my pre troubles  primary school years were carefree,my parents were never out of work and we had as much or as little as our Protestant neighbours.I happen to believe that if we had that life in Portadown,and it did involve hard work,then anyone else could have done the same.No doors were closed.

Are you saying for example that Catholic middle classes did not dwell in the leafy suburbs,in Malone Road?

randomusername

Quote from: T Fearon on December 06, 2017, 11:10:48 PM
Maurice Hayes,Catholic and widely credited with Down GAAs emergence in the 1960s,was NI Ombudsman,decades ago.

I can only go from my own experience,discrimination was not nearly as bad as made out,my primary school years were carefree,my parents were never out of work and we had as much or as little as our Protestant neighbours.I happen to believe that if we had that life in Portadown,and it did involve hard work,then anyone else could have done the same.

Are you saying for example that Catholic middle classes did not dwell in the leafy suburbs,in Malone Road?

Not many of them anyway, nationalists used to poll less than 10% in South Belfast.