The DUP thread

[Caesar]

The other big motivation for the DUP maintaining the stalemate is to avoid a Sinn Fein First Minister. For years the DUP have used this as a scare tactic to garner votes. "The DUP are the only party capable of stopping Sinn Fein...". 

Don't underestimate this. Not even unionists vote DUP based on what they deliver for the electorate. It's all scare tactics. Once Sinn Fein hold the First Minister position and the DUP lose this leverage it could be make a big impact!

[AustinPowers]

I find it strange that  the FM / Deputy FM roles  were named as they were in the GFA.  In reality,  They are equal roles but the wording  of the FM title is important.  UNionists could always  think they held the power while they  held the FM role.  Even though the deputy was an equal  position,  symbolically it was as if  they still lorded it over those  pesky fenians.

Makes you wonder why   nationalist parties agreed to  the titles of these roles in 1998.  I mean , was it not called "power sharing"?  Surely that  should mean  JOINT first ministers?

And did unionists never actually envision a time when  a politician from a nationalist party  might  be FM?

[seafoid]

The DUP have painted themselves into a corner. It would take a heart of stone not to laugh.

[armaghniac]

Of course there wouldn't be a nationalist FM this time either except for the St Andrews agreement imposed by the DUP. That would only have delayed things for one or two elections though.

[93-DY-SAM]

The other big motivation for the DUP maintaining the stalemate is to avoid a Sinn Fein First Minister. For years the DUP have used this as a scare tactic to garner votes. "The DUP are the only party capable of stopping Sinn Fein...". 

Don't underestimate this. Not even unionists vote DUP based on what they deliver for the electorate. It's all scare tactics. Once Sinn Fein hold the First Minister position and the DUP lose this leverage it could be make a big impact!

Don't kid yourself into thinking there is any other motivation than that. Said it a million times here. Everything else is a smokescreen around the fact they don't want a Sinn Fein First Minister. Especially one that is a woman.

Times they are a changing fast and change can't come quick enough.

[weareros]

DUP also no longer have enough seats for petition of concern. They made great use of that when they had the power and most of the social progress they  blocked has now come in via Westminster.

[yellowcard]

I find it strange that  the FM / Deputy FM roles  were named as they were in the GFA.  In reality,  They are equal roles but the wording  of the FM title is important.  UNionists could always  think they held the power while they  held the FM role.  Even though the deputy was an equal  position,  symbolically it was as if  they still lorded it over those  pesky fenians.

Makes you wonder why   nationalist parties agreed to  the titles of these roles in 1998.  I mean , was it not called "power sharing"?  Surely that  should mean  JOINT first ministers?

And did unionists never actually envision a time when  a politician from a nationalist party  might  be FM?

Therein lies the biggest problem for political unionism. They cannot see past the next election cycle never mind look at what the medium term future might hold. Practically every political decision they ever make is solely with the next election in mind, and now that they don't have the majority, the chickens are coming home to roost. But they won't change, that much is clear at this stage. The smallest of what they deem to be a concession will always be pounced upon by the hardliners for political gain.   

[marty34]

I don't think so tbh. They wouldn't care about going nuclear with or without the cover of that. They always have their default fallback of but what about the ra.

They're slippery enough they'd have found some "reason".

One thing I learned back in the '80's during Drumcree, is you should never underestimate the willingness of hardcore DUP voters and loyalists to cut off every appendage to spite their face. Even if it causes them to lose everything they own.

Oh so true.

The DUP, Donaldson to be precise is still wrangling for a win of sorts to allow them to save some face and get Stormont up and running as they know it will hurt them long term with the electorate, but he's being undermined by the more vocal in his party but the absurdity of creating these 7 tests and the likes which they're bound to have known the UK government would never meet ranks of stupidity and arrogance of the highest level.

Sitting beside Michelle O'Neill as first minister also doesn't help, but that will be for ELP and not wee Jeffrey if he's still around in the next few months.

They really are badly led ever since Robinson exited the stage for them.

Will it hurt them with their electorate? I'm not too sure.

There seems to be a hardening of attitudes....as in..we'll dig ourselves into a bigger whole. We don't care.

[Wildweasel74]

Education, in a bad way at the minute, alot of capital works stopped to redivert existing funding just to keep schools open from maint issues ans school meals issues. A number of schools having issues with provision of school meals, plus massive Special Needs overscription. And not 1 politican gives a shit! How these people keep getting paid for not doing the job they supposed to, is amazing.

[marty34]

Driving tests and MOT's going up in price.

Tories punishing us all, via the DUP.

What'll be next? Water charges? Perscription charges?

[Rossfan]

The English are hardly going to keep paying to  give ye things for free that they have to pay for.

[6th sam]

The English are hardly going to keep paying to  give ye things for free that they have to pay for.

Exactly Rossfan, they'd be far wiser to pay the republic to take us off their hands

[johnnycool]

I don't think so tbh. They wouldn't care about going nuclear with or without the cover of that. They always have their default fallback of but what about the ra.

They're slippery enough they'd have found some "reason".

One thing I learned back in the '80's during Drumcree, is you should never underestimate the willingness of hardcore DUP voters and loyalists to cut off every appendage to spite their face. Even if it causes them to lose everything they own.

Oh so true.

The DUP, Donaldson to be precise is still wrangling for a win of sorts to allow them to save some face and get Stormont up and running as they know it will hurt them long term with the electorate, but he's being undermined by the more vocal in his party but the absurdity of creating these 7 tests and the likes which they're bound to have known the UK government would never meet ranks of stupidity and arrogance of the highest level.

Sitting beside Michelle O'Neill as first minister also doesn't help, but that will be for ELP and not wee Jeffrey if he's still around in the next few months.

They really are badly led ever since Robinson exited the stage for them.

Will it hurt them with their electorate? I'm not too sure.

There seems to be a hardening of attitudes....as in..we'll dig ourselves into a bigger whole. We don't care.

It won't hurt them with their electorate, no, but their electoral pool is dwindling, they've maxed out the hardline vote and they're still play second fiddle to SF.
They've fended off the TUV to their right, but Alliance are still making gains to the middle on what is perceived to be small u unionists. The likes of East Belfast could well fall to Alliance at the next GE.
In a recent poll it is thought Doug Beattie is cutting through to young unionists, how that plays out in the polls in the next election we'll see.

[seafoid]

I don't think so tbh. They wouldn't care about going nuclear with or without the cover of that. They always have their default fallback of but what about the ra.

They're slippery enough they'd have found some "reason".

One thing I learned back in the '80's during Drumcree, is you should never underestimate the willingness of hardcore DUP voters and loyalists to cut off every appendage to spite their face. Even if it causes them to lose everything they own.

Oh so true.

The DUP, Donaldson to be precise is still wrangling for a win of sorts to allow them to save some face and get Stormont up and running as they know it will hurt them long term with the electorate, but he's being undermined by the more vocal in his party but the absurdity of creating these 7 tests and the likes which they're bound to have known the UK government would never meet ranks of stupidity and arrogance of the highest level.

Sitting beside Michelle O'Neill as first minister also doesn't help, but that will be for ELP and not wee Jeffrey if he's still around in the next few months.

They really are badly led ever since Robinson exited the stage for them.

Will it hurt them with their electorate? I'm not too sure.

There seems to be a hardening of attitudes....as in..we'll dig ourselves into a bigger whole. We don't care.

It won't hurt them with their electorate, no, but their electoral pool is dwindling, they've maxed out the hardline vote and they're still play second fiddle to SF.
They've fended off the TUV to their right, but Alliance are still making gains to the middle on what is perceived to be small u unionists. The likes of East Belfast could well fall to Alliance at the next GE.
In a recent poll it is thought Doug Beattie is cutting through to young unionists, how that plays out in the polls in the next election we'll see.

At some stage the UUP will take over again  As the DUP did in the noughties.

"The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought." Rüdiger Dornbusch

[armaghniac]

'young' unionists may well think that Beattie makes more sense than the DUP loons, but will they go out and vote.?