Quinn Insurance in Administration

[LeoMc]

I see Constantin Gurdgiev pointing out on twitter that it wasn't SQ that loaded his gamble on the state.

That is true and is the reason I am not paying much attention to the "wont somebody think of the children" arguments.
However he did gamble with his money (peoples jobs?) and he did borrow to cover his losses. Whether it had been another bank or if it had been the bond market he borrowed from his actions in contempt of court to ensure he would not have to pay those debts back* are still wrong and should not be applauded.

*once their legitimacy or otherwise is determined.

[orangeman]

Sinn Fein 'distances itself' from Sean Quinn
By Jim Fitzpatrick


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19086995

Sinn Fein has distanced itself from the Fermanagh businessman Sean Quinn.

Last week Fermanagh and South Tyrone MP Michelle Gildernew told a local paper Mr Quinn was an ordinary man treated disgracefully by the Irish government.

However, on Tuesday night the party's deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald said the Quinns had engaged in questionable business practice.

She said that loyalties and emotions should not get in the way of justice.

Mr Quinn has been embroiled in a legal battle over the debts he owes the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, formerly the Anglo Irish Bank.

On Sunday, thousands turned out in Ballyconnell, County Cavan, to support Sean Quinn.

Sinn Fein's Michelle Gildernew also lent her support.

"He has been treated disgracefully by the Irish government," she told the Impartial Reporter newspaper.

"Had they not tried to strip him off all his assets, including his home, deny him the ability to function in business, and routinely try to humiliate him I believe he would have paid back every penny he owed to the Irish taxpayer.

"He accepted he had done wrong, but all our attempts to make the government show some common sense were ignored. He is being punished for having the audacity to buy the bank and for being an ordinary man from Fermanagh who is hugely respected by his community," she said.

However, Sinn Fein deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald took a different view on Tuesday night, saying money owed to the bank was money owed to the state.

"There are strong emotions in support of the Quinns," she said.

"This is understandable, however, neither loyalty nor emotion can be allowed to get in the way of justice being done in the Quinn case or, indeed, any other that may arise.

"The matter is before the courts and that is where the final judgement will be made.

"The Quinns chose to put a lot into the public domain concerning their case, including the fact that company law was breached and that they have moved assets beyond the reach of IBRC.

"As the IBRC is now fully state-owned, money owed to it by the Quinns is money owed the state.

"The Quinns have an obligation to abide by the law the same as any other citizen. They also have an obligation to work with IBRC to repay what they owe."

For many people in the border Sean Quinn is simply the man who brought jobs and prosperity.

But further south, people may be more concerned with the billions in debt he left behind, the hundreds of millions he tried to hide and the insurance levy due to mismanagement at Quinn Direct.

So, despite the numbers on the streets, political support is getting thinner on the ground.

[supersarsfields]

Can't argue with that Leo. He should have stopped what ever movement of assets they were conducting the minute the injunctions were put in place. (I prob vary from the majority here in that I don't begrudge any of the movement of assets that were done legally before the injunctions were put in place as that was a case of Anglo dropping the ball and he owes anglo no favours)

[deiseach]

Seán Quinn's campaign - Courts must prevail in sorry affair

TUESDAY, JULY 31, 2012

Seán Quinn's contention, and at this point it is as valuable as any self-serving fantasy, that because the loans he accepted from Anglo Irish Bank may be tainted with illegality that he is not obliged to repay the billions borrowed is as delusional as it is contemptible.

That the debt is owed to the people of Ireland who have had to pick up the Anglo Irish tab — the thick end of €30bn — makes the contention almost seditious. That so many of his fellow citizens are in such dire straits because of the machinations of insatiable "investors" puts the contention in the let-them-eat-cake category of autocratic dismissals.

The vagaries of human nature suggest too that, had Mr Quinn's investment in Anglo been as profitable as he had once believed, it might then be the legal status of the transactions might never have been questioned.

That the Quinn family have freely admitted that they have tried — and possibly succeeded — to put hundreds of millions in assets beyond the reach of Irish courts and creditors — us — moves the melodrama on to an altogether different plane. It explains why Seán Quinn Jr is in Mountjoy serving a sentence for contempt of court, and why his cousin and business partner Peter Darragh Quinn is a fugitive from our courts.

It does not, however, explain why Seán Quinn Jr is enjoying the kind of preferential treatment in the jail's training wing that other prisoners must wait months or even years to enjoy. The Minister for Justice must explain why such advantageous and inequitable arrangements are being extended to Mr Quinn Jr.

It has not been established that the loans were administered illegally by Anglo Irish Bank, but even if it eventually is, how does that change the obligation, freely entered into — indeed, eagerly sought — by Mr Quinn and his family to repay the huge sums involved?

Is Mr Quinn suggesting, as it seems he is, that two wrongs would make a right? Is he suggesting that misconduct on the part of the bank — and this is just a claim not yet tested in court — nullifies his loan agreements with the bank? Is he suggesting that taxpayers, already hard-pressed and facing another hair-shirt budget in a few months, should pay his multibillion-euro gambling bills?

Over the weekend, an estimated 4,000 people, including some national GAA figures, held a rally in Ballyconnell, Co Cavan, to support Mr Quinn. This was an admirable if misplaced display of tribal loyalty. Mr Quinn has many business and community achievements he can be very proud of. That cannot be denied. However, his exploitation of that well-intended loyalty was as calculated as the court performances that prompted Mr Justice Peter Kelly in the High Court to say that, despite dealing with a growing number of cases involving "national and international fraud, sharp practice, chicanery and dishonesty", he had never seen anything like the conduct of the Quinn family.

Loyalty must be tempered with judgement or else it becomes blind and destructive. We must also decide if we are to be loyal to individuals or to principles, in this instance it seems impossible to be both. As King Canute discovered, the tide cannot be held back and no matter how loudly Mr Quinn and his supporters protest our courts must prevail in this sorry affair. Any other conclusion would be disastrous for society. The really sad thing is that the Quinn family knows that too

[Shamrock Shore]

must.....resist.......posting any futher.......views.....opinions.....


Feck it - my one last comment

I see that piece that deiseach has posted is from The Irish Examiner aka The Cork Examiner aka Da Paper

Not exactly a 'Dublin 4 meeja' piece

[deiseach]

must.....resist.......posting any futher.......views.....opinions.....

My name is deiseach and I'm PostingontheQuinnInsuranceinAdministrationthreadaholic

[orangeman]

Jim really likes Sean Quinn - fairly unbiased reporting here -

What are the facts in the Sean Quinn case?

By Jim Fitzpatrick

BBC NI economics and business editor
 
Sean Quinn was once Ireland's richest man in the UK
There has been much comment about former billionaire businessman Sean Quinn, who has been embroiled in a legal battle over the debts he owes the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, formerly the Anglo Irish Bank.

At the height of his success, Mr Quinn was the 12th richest man in the UK and the richest in Ireland, employing thousands, mostly in the previously job-starved cross-border area of Fermanagh and Cavan.

In April 2011, control of his business empire passed into the hands of the IBRC.

Later that year Sean Quinn declared himself bankrupt in a Belfast court, making him the biggest bankrupt in UK history.

On 26 July, a Dublin judge found that Mr Quinn, his son, Sean Quinn jnr and a nephew, Peter Darragh Quinn, hid millions in assets from the bank.

Mr Quinn jnr and Peter Darragh Quinn were given three-month jail terms.

Here are some key facts:

Sean Quinn didn't invest in Anglo Irish Bank, he bet on it
If all he'd done was buy shares, his losses would have been limited.

But Sean Quinn chose a dangerous financial instrument called Contracts for Difference (CFDs) to build up a 25% stake in Anglo Irish Bank.

It was a leveraged bet on the share price - if it his bet had come good, he would have made billions, but because it went bad he lost more than five times his initial huge stake.

He literally bet the bank and both bank and Quinn went down. His losses totalled more than 3.2bn euros at the end, with Anglo on the hook for 2.8bn euros.

Anglo didn't encourage Sean Quinn money to build this stake
Anglo Irish Bank was horrified when it discovered the scale of Sean Quinn's stake because they knew they could both go down if the full story was public.

It was a fatal embrace. The reason some directors of Anglo now face criminal charges is because of money lent to unwind and offload Sean Quinn's bet.

Even Sean Quinn has never publicly suggested that Anglo wanted him to build a 25% stake through CFDs in the bank.

Sean Quinn broke the law before the bank moved in
Sean Quinn was removed from his insurance business by the regulator because he had broken the law.

He had used funds from his insurance business to prop up other parts of the group. It was a serious offence.

The regulator eventually put the entire business into administration because he found the Quinn management were still breaking the rules and there was a massive black hole in the finances. This happened a year before Anglo moved to take control of the rest of the empire.

Sean Quinn now accepts that the actions of the regulator were "right and proper".

Meanwhile all insurance policies in the Republic are now subject to a 2% levy indefinitely to fill the financial hole found in Quinn Insurance.

The family had no viable plan to pay back the money
Once the insurance business was taken from family control, their offer to repay the 2.8 billion euros owed went up in smoke.

The fact that their plan relied upon cash from the insurance arm was not reassuring to a regulator who'd found that they had repeatedly broken the rules not to use money from the regulated business to support the rest of the group.

On 7 March 2011 (one month before Anglo took over the rest of the group) the family's lawyers stated clearly in a letter to Anglo that their offer to repay "was made solely in the context of our clients retaining economic control of Quinn Insurance".

The regulator had already ruled that out, it was not a matter within Anglo's control.

The family did promise to honour loans of 455m euros
In that same letter to Anglo (obtained from Swedish court archives during my investigation for BBC Spotlight) the family's lawyers state: "Your client is aware that 455m euros of loans related to our clients' investments in their international property portfolio (IPP).

"These loans are performing and our clients have met the interest schedules on them, as clearly demonstrated by a review of the attached schedule."

The attached information is headed "Schedule of Valid Property Loans from Anglo Irish Bank Corporation Limited".

Sean Quinn didn't just "frustrate" the bank
The reason Sean Quinn, his son and nephew, are guilty of contempt is because they took actions to interfere with the business and shift assets after Anglo had taken control last April and in breach of specific court injunctions obtained in June.

These actions include Sean Quinn falsifying documents in July (three months after he was ousted) to take control of a Moscow office block worth 180m euros and put it into an offshore company in Belize.

He falsified the documents to make it look like it was done while he was still in charge, but in fact he was a bogus director using fake documents to move very real and valuable assets beyond the reach of the taxpayer-owned bank.

Far from going to court and owning up to this course of action, as Sean Quinn has recently suggested he did, he denied all this in court.

He merely admitted taking steps to frustrate the bank while he was still in charge of the company. The judge didn't believe him.

Sean Quinn isn't defying Anglo alone
He's defying the Irish courts.

It is the courts - not Anglo - that have found him in contempt.

Judge Kelly described the scheme he authorised as one of "mesmeric complexity" that "reeked of dishonesty and sharp practice". It is the courts that have ruled that the debt must be honoured.

The legitimacy of the disputed loans will be determined
There is a case that will be heard over the legitimacy of the disputed 2.3bn euros loans.

But in the meantime the Quinns are legally bound to honour the court rulings.

If, ultimately, the 2.3bn euros is ruled illegal and unenforceable then they will be due compensation.

Supporters say this must be determined first, and it is right to hide assets in the meantime.

They say the actions taken to date are an attempt to bankrupt the Quinn family so they can't fight that other case.

But it is contradictory to ignore current court orders on the basis that you believe a future court decision will go your way. That suggests you only obey the law when it obeys you. It also ignores the undisputed 455m euros of debt the family have always agreed is owed.

Judge Elizabeth Dunne summarised this key argument in her contempt judgement: "Instead of trying to repay the admitted debt due, the Quinn family and in particular the respondents have taken every step possible to make it as difficult as can be to recover any amount due.

"They have engaged in a complex, complicated and, no doubt, costly, series of steps designed to put the assets of the IPG (International Property Group) beyond the reach of Anglo, in a blatant, dishonest and deceitful manner.

"They have consciously misled courts here and elsewhere. They have sought to deprive Anglo of the assets which would go some way to discharging an admitted indebtedness.

"The behaviour of the respondents outlined in evidence before me is as far as removed from the concept of honour and respectability as it is possible to be."

[sammymaguire]

What are the facts in the Sean Quinn case?

By Jim Fitzpatrick
BBC NI economics and business editor

There has been much comment about former billionaire businessman Sean Quinn, who has been embroiled in a legal battle over the debts he owes the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, formerly the Anglo Irish Bank.

At the height of his success, Mr Quinn was the 12th richest man in the UK and the richest in Ireland, employing thousands, mostly in the previously job-starved cross-border area of Fermanagh and Cavan.

In April 2011, control of his business empire passed into the hands of the IBRC.

Later that year Sean Quinn declared himself bankrupt in a Belfast court, making him the biggest bankrupt in UK history.

On 20 July, a Dublin judge found that Mr Quinn, his son, Sean Quinn jnr and a nephew, Peter Darragh Quinn, hid millions in assets from the bank.

Mr Quinn jnr and Peter Darragh Quinn were given three-month jail terms.

Here are some key facts:

Sean Quinn didn't invest in Anglo Irish Bank, he bet on it
If all he'd done was buy shares, his losses would have been limited.

But Sean Quinn chose a dangerous financial instrument called Contracts for Difference (CFDs) to build up a 25% stake in Anglo Irish Bank.

It was a leveraged bet on the share price - if it his bet had come good, he would have made billions, but because it went bad he lost more than five times his initial huge stake.

He literally bet the bank and both bank and Quinn went down. His losses totalled more than 3.2bn euros at the end, with Anglo on the hook for 2.8bn euros.

Anglo didn't encourage Sean Quinn money to build this stake
Anglo Irish Bank was horrified when it discovered the scale of Sean Quinn's stake because they knew they could both go down if the full story was public.

It was a fatal embrace. The reason some directors of Anglo now face criminal charges is because of money lent to unwind and offload Sean Quinn's bet.

Even Sean Quinn has never publicly suggested that Anglo wanted him to build a 25% stake through CFDs in the bank.

Sean Quinn broke the law before the bank moved in
Sean Quinn was removed from his insurance business by the regulator because he had broken the law.

He had used funds from his insurance business to prop up other parts of the group. It was a serious offence.

The regulator eventually put the entire business into administration because he found the Quinn management were still breaking the rules and there was a massive black hole in the finances. This happened a year before Anglo moved to take control of the rest of the empire.

Sean Quinn now accepts that the actions of the regulator were "right and proper".

Meanwhile all insurance policies in the Republic are now subject to a 2% levy indefinitely to fill the financial hole found in Quinn Insurance.

The family had no viable plan to pay back the money
Once the insurance business was taken from family control, their offer to repay the 2.8 billion euros owed went up in smoke.

The fact that their plan relied upon cash from the insurance arm was not reassuring to a regulator who'd found that they had repeatedly broken the rules not to use money from the regulated business to support the rest of the group.

On 7 March 2011 (one month before Anglo took over the rest of the group) the family's lawyers stated clearly in a letter to Anglo that their offer to repay "was made solely in the context of our clients retaining economic control of Quinn Insurance".

The regulator had already ruled that out, it was not a matter within Anglo's control.

The family did promise to honour loans of 455m euros
In that same letter to Anglo (obtained from Swedish court archives during my investigation for BBC Spotlight) the family's lawyers state: "Your client is aware that 455m euros of loans related to our clients' investments in their international property portfolio (IPP).

"These loans are performing and our clients have met the interest schedules on them, as clearly demonstrated by a review of the attached schedule."

The attached information is headed "Schedule of Valid Property Loans from Anglo Irish Bank Corporation Limited".

Sean Quinn didn't just "frustrate" the bank
The reason Sean Quinn, his son and nephew, are guilty of contempt is because they took actions to interfere with the business and shift assets after Anglo had taken control last April and in breach of specific court injunctions obtained in June.

These actions include Sean Quinn falsifying documents in July (three months after he was ousted) to take control of a Moscow office block worth 180m euros and put it into an offshore company in Belize.

He falsified the documents to make it look like it was done while he was still in charge, but in fact he was a bogus director using fake documents to move very real and valuable assets beyond the reach of the taxpayer-owned bank.

Far from going to court and owning up to this course of action, as Sean Quinn has recently suggested he did, he denied all this in court.

He merely admitted taking steps to frustrate the bank while he was still in charge of the company. The judge didn't believe him.

Sean Quinn isn't defying Anglo alone
He's defying the Irish courts.

It is the courts - not Anglo - that have found him in contempt.

Judge Kelly described the scheme he authorised as one of "mesmeric complexity" that "reeked of dishonesty and sharp practice". It is the courts that have ruled that the debt must be honoured.

The legitimacy of the disputed loans will be determined
There is a case that will be heard over the legitimacy of the disputed 2.3bn euros loans.

But in the meantime the Quinns are legally bound to honour the court rulings.

If, ultimately, the 2.3bn euros is ruled illegal and unenforceable then they will be due compensation.

Supporters say this must be determined first, and it is right to hide assets in the meantime.

They say the actions taken to date are an attempt to bankrupt the Quinn family so they can't fight that other case.

But it is contradictory to ignore current court orders on the basis that you believe a future court decision will go your way. That suggests you only obey the law when it obeys you. It also ignores the undisputed 455m euros of debt the family have always agreed is owed.

Judge Elizabeth Dunne summarised this key argument in her contempt judgement: "Instead of trying to repay the admitted debt due, the Quinn family and in particular the respondents have taken every step possible to make it as difficult as can be to recover any amount due.

"They have engaged in a complex, complicated and, no doubt, costly, series of steps designed to put the assets of the IPG (International Property Group) beyond the reach of Anglo, in a blatant, dishonest and deceitful manner.

"They have consciously misled courts here and elsewhere. They have sought to deprive Anglo of the assets which would go some way to discharging an admitted indebtedness.

"The behaviour of the respondents outlined in evidence before me is as far as removed from the concept of honour and respectability as it is possible to be."

sounds so good it should be on the thread twice 

[haranguerer]

One question hasn't been asked yet and needs to be addressed:

Why wasn't the Banty on the Stage the other night in Ballyconnell?

I think they were looking for personalities who would then 'duck the media' as the indo reported it. Theres no way that banty could ever turn down any microphone, so he wasnt asked 

[orangeman]

One question hasn't been asked yet and needs to be addressed:

Why wasn't the Banty on the Stage the other night in Ballyconnell?

He's history now. Ex Meath manager doesn't have a great ring about it.

[Maguire01]

One question hasn't been asked yet and needs to be addressed:

Why wasn't the Banty on the Stage the other night in Ballyconnell?

Hopefully because he has more sense.

[haranguerer]

One question hasn't been asked yet and needs to be addressed:

Why wasn't the Banty on the Stage the other night in Ballyconnell?

Hopefully because he has more sense.

Ah come on now, theres hoping and then theres hoping!!

[Maguire01]

GAA statement in response to coverage of last Sunday's rally in Ballyconnell
Friday, August 03, 2012

The GAA is a non-party political organisation whose individual members may, of course, decide to take positions on a range of issues in accordance with their own personal views.

As an Association, however, it would be entirely inappropriate for the GAA to become involved in matters outside its remit.

[Shamrock Shore]

I wonder does Peter Quinn Snr, a former president, think the GAA is now part of the conspiracy that he alleges exists or is the so-called conspiracy simply restricted to the following:

• The Judiciary
• The Dublin 4 meeja
• The Government
• The IBRC
• Sandal wearing Irish Times readers that don't understand the ways of country folk
• Jedward

[haranguerer]

Wtf are you talking about SS?

Btw, did you reconsider the article about those now running Quinn ins, given that they went in with their eyes open, saying they wouldnt need anything extra, and a year or two down the line they're saying they need 1.3bn? The courts were none too happy with them, but of course, all they had to do was menion quinn and you and others said 'that f**ker, no worries lads, 2bn is it yous need?' I didnt ask before because you expressed a desire to stop posting on this thread so I said fair enough, but if you're so bored as to be posting the above then you probably should have a think about it.