Westminster Election 12th December 2019

Started by Ambrose, October 29, 2019, 02:24:04 PM

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smelmoth

Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 24, 2019, 09:44:09 AM
On the Lib Dem leader, jeez she's hard to listen to!!

Putting it mildly.

Completely nonsensical approach to Brexit and government in their manifesto

Revoke with no referendum is mental. Total meltdown would ensue. It's not a policy it's a attempt at a populist land grab the like of which even BoJo couldn't match in terms of audacity.

It also relies on a Lib Dem majority. The chances of that is zero. Even Swinson has climbed down from that fantasy.

Swinson is campaigning for a hung parliament (fair enough) but until this morning was ruling out participating in any of the possible forms of government. This morning's Marr interview changes that. Sounded to me like she was saying Don't vote for Tories or Labour, vote Lib Dem so that they can provide confidence and supply to Tories on the basis that the Tories accept Labour Party policy on Brexit. Absolutely mind boggling.


seafoid

https://amp.ft.com/content/6da72060-cfd2-11e9-99a4-b5ded7a7fe3f


Your series of articles exploring the Labour party's economic agenda fails to appreciate the severity of the UK's current economic condition, and reproduces a number of misconceptions.

There is growing political consensus that the UK's economic model is failing. The economy has been performing badly for more than a decade. Household debt has fuelled the meagre recovery from the crash of 2007-08. Earnings have stagnated, with many families borrowing to cover basic expenses; an estimated 8.3m people cannot keep up with debts or bills. The housing market is in crisis, with young people set to be poorer than their parents. Since the 1980s, the wealthiest have disproportionately benefited from growth, driving high levels of political disillusionment. Action to prevent climate and environmental breakdown, and prepare for their effects, is wholly inadequate.

All political parties in the UK are proposing increases in public spending to meet these challenges. Your headline "Cost of Labour's economic overhaul soars" (September 3) implies that Labour's proposals are unaffordable, but the Office for Budget Responsibility analysis cited ignores the impact of public spending on growth, and thus on tax receipts. As senior IMF economists have noted in their critique of austerity, this relationship is critical. Today the government can borrow at negative real interest rates: many pressing infrastructure, education and environment projects offer returns well above zero and can therefore generate higher future tax receipts, supporting not detracting from fiscal sustainability. Taxation levels in the UK remain lower than in most European countries.


But reform of fiscal policy is not enough. Ownership of capital helps determine in whose interests the economy operates. It is a category error to suggest a mechanism such as an Inclusive Ownership Fund would "cost" companies or that the state will "seize" shares. The proposal neither reduces the book value of corporate entities, nor requires them to pay cash out. By requiring companies to issue new shares and give them to a mutual fund — mirroring the accepted practice of issuing shares for executive compensation — it ensures instead that workers share in the wealth they create.

The UK's economic model has failed before. In both the 1940s and 1980s, major policy changes were made in response. At first seen as overly radical, they were later accepted across the political spectrum. Since 2008 the UK economy has again been failing, with today's political crisis one of the consequences. This is precisely the time when bold ideas are needed from all political parties.

David Blanchflower
Professor of Economics, Dartmouth College; former Monetary Policy Committee member

Victoria Chick
Emeritus Professor of Economics, University College London

Stephany Griffith-Jones
Financial Markets Director, Initiative for Policy Dialogue, Columbia University; Emeritus Professorial Fellow, Institute of Development Studies, University of Sussex

Susan Himmelweit
Professor Emeritus of Economics, Open University

Sir Richard Jolly
Professor, Institute of Development Studies, University of Sussex; former Deputy Director of Unicef

Mariana Mazzucato
Professor in the Economics of Innovation & Public Value; Director, UCL Institute for Innovation & Public Purpose

Thomas Piketty
Professor, Paris School of Economics and EHESS

Dani Rodrik
Professor of Economics, Harvard University

On behalf of 82 signatories.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

ludermor

One of the items on the tories manifesto is the introduiction of ID for Voting which seems to be an massive issue in the UK, what am i missing ? How difficult would it be to have formal ID , in this day and age i cant see you can fuction without ID so surely makes sense to have it?

Owenmoresider

Quote from: ludermor on November 25, 2019, 08:55:36 AM
One of the items on the tories manifesto is the introduiction of ID for Voting which seems to be an massive issue in the UK, what am i missing ? How difficult would it be to have formal ID , in this day and age i cant see you can fuction without ID so surely makes sense to have it?
It is sensible for sure. Also this idea of proxy voting that appears to be permitted surely cannot continue, wide open to abuse.

seafoid

Johnson did a deal with Farage to secure the BXP vote. The deal means no negotiations with the EU after 31/12/20 (increasing the likelihood of no Deal) and nothing softer than a hard Brexit Canada style deal with the EU

https://www.brexitoptions.co.uk/diagram.html
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

ludermor

Quote from: seafoid on November 25, 2019, 10:10:47 AM
Johnson did a deal with Farage to secure the BXP vote. The deal means no negotiations with the EU after 31/12/20 (increasing the likelihood of no Deal) and nothing softer than a hard Brexit Canada style deal with the EU

https://www.brexitoptions.co.uk/diagram.html
Johnson has shafted evryone he has dealt with so cant see why this woudl be any different

yellowcard

Johnson is having a woeful campaign as anticipated and is getting badly exposed. All bluster no substance. Will the electorate buy this dumbed down message of 'Get Brexit done?'. Or will he simply win the election with a majority because he is not Corbyn. Jo Swinson is useless as well so this could benefit the Tories but I still think Labour will get a surge come the end of the election as they do tend to run a good campaign. Another hung parliament is still most likely in my book. 

seafoid

There are loads of tactical voting messages flying around on social media.

eg Will Hutton :

To Labour voters living in Richmond,Esher and Wokingham don't waste your vote. Vote LibDem. To LibDem voters in Chingford, Wycombe and Shipley vote Labour. We can be rid of Goldsmith, Raab, Redwood, IDS, Baker and Phillip Davies if you vote tactically.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU


Kidder81



Owenmoresider

Quote from: Kidder81 on November 25, 2019, 06:29:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 25, 2019, 06:11:17 PM
Tory lead down to 7

https://www.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1XZ23K

To say you are selective in what you post would be an understatement
Too right. I presume that's the ICM poll he is citing. Their other polls in recent weeks had the Tory lead at 7, 8, 10 and now 7, much smaller than any of the other polling companies. Only two other polls out of the 20 odd in the past fortnight have the gap in single figures. And the Tory vote is staying above 40% in all but one of them.

magpie seanie

Opinion polls in recent elections and referendum in the UK have been inaccurate, even outside their own wide margin of error. You'd have to wonder what purpose they serve. Labour's campaign is going well. A huge number of people registered since the election has been called with the vast majority of them being young voters.

ludermor

Quote from: magpie seanie on November 26, 2019, 09:57:40 AM
Opinion polls in recent elections and referendum in the UK have been inaccurate, even outside their own wide margin of error. You'd have to wonder what purpose they serve. Labour's campaign is going well. A huge number of people registered since the election has been called with the vast majority of them being young voters.
I wouldnt be confident of a large Labour swing towards the end, i thnk the best senario for them is the collapse of the Lib Dem vote who are performing terribly. Living here it is mad what the people will let the Topies away with, it doent matter what Johnson/Gove/JRM say or do peope dont seem to care but Corbyn is getting absolutely hammered on the anti semitism issue . And i dont buy into the tactical voting organised through twitter, if is happens on the gorund where parties withdraw then fair enough but are there really enough people on twitter to be swayed to vote tactically?

five points

The Tory-leaning Spectator magazine said when the election was called that Johnson would need the Lib Dems to do well against Labour if he was to get a majority. That ain't going to happen now. Interesting times.