Brexit.

[marty34]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

[Milltown Row2]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

They usually do and require more tutoring, parents will do anything to get their wee Johnny into the 'good' school

[thewobbler]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

[t_mac]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

The only boys school in Armagh now doesn't stream to the detriment of every child wishing to learn.

[lurganblue]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

The only boys school in Armagh now doesn't stream to the detriment of every child wishing to learn.

Same applies in Lurgan

[johnnycool]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

I don't get the tutoring thing TBH and I've kids of that age.

As a parent we support them through the process like I do the elder ones who are Grammar school when they're struggling with homeworks or what not and the younger ones with their reading and writing etc etc.

Tutoring in my mind is once again parents abdicating their responsibilities onto someone else just because they can afford to.

And I've spoken to a few Grammar school teachers and they all say the same thing that they can tell within a matter of weeks which kids were tutored for the entrance exams and those that didn't.

The support has been removed as mammy and daddy pat themselves on the backs for getting wee Johnny into that big Grammar school and all's well with the world.

The problem with MCGuinness and the removal of the 11+ was that the second part of the process (Costello report) was never implemented due to the CCMS and to an extent the DUP looking after the interests of the Grammar schools in their areas.
The second part of the process was for primary school teachers to assess kids throughout P6 and P7 against a standard criteria and then after discussions with parents at the end of the process to decide whether wee Johnny was fit for an academic based education or a vocational based one.

There are several issues with the implementation of the second phase as we all know too well that subjectivity isn't a given when mammy and daddy sit down to discuss wee Johnny.

[t_mac]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

I don't get the tutoring thing TBH and I've kids of that age.

As a parent we support them through the process like I do the elder ones who are Grammar school when they're struggling with homeworks or what not and the younger ones with their reading and writing etc etc.

Tutoring in my mind is once again parents abdicating their responsibilities onto someone else just because they can afford to.

And I've spoken to a few Grammar school teachers and they all say the same thing that they can tell within a matter of weeks which kids were tutored for the entrance exams and those that didn't.

The support has been removed as mammy and daddy pat themselves on the backs for getting wee Johnny into that big Grammar school and all's well with the world.

The problem with MCGuinness and the removal of the 11+ was that the second part of the process (Costello report) was never implemented due to the CCMS and to an extent the DUP looking after the interests of the Grammar schools in their areas.
The second part of the process was for primary school teachers to assess kids throughout P6 and P7 against a standard criteria and then after discussions with parents at the end of the process to decide whether wee Johnny was fit for an academic based education or a vocational based one.

There are several issues with the implementation of the second phase as we all know too well that subjectivity isn't a given when mammy and daddy sit down to discuss wee Johnny.

Horseshit, I know some parents who are working class and struggle to help their kids and also struggle to pay for tutoring to give their kids a chance, send a child to St Pats in Armagh who needs a little extra encouragement that a proper Grammar would give, they have no chance, it has become a compete cesspit get them in and out is the motto, with those who don't want to learn spread evenly throughout any year bringing everyone down.

[clarshack]

The whole tutoring thing is a scam imho with teachers or ex teachers creaming it on the side. Kids either have it or they don't.

[Rossfan]

While ye Nordies are going on about schools Corbyn says Labour now agreeing to an Election.

[lurganblue]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

I don't get the tutoring thing TBH and I've kids of that age.

As a parent we support them through the process like I do the elder ones who are Grammar school when they're struggling with homeworks or what not and the younger ones with their reading and writing etc etc.

Tutoring in my mind is once again parents abdicating their responsibilities onto someone else just because they can afford to.

And I've spoken to a few Grammar school teachers and they all say the same thing that they can tell within a matter of weeks which kids were tutored for the entrance exams and those that didn't.

The support has been removed as mammy and daddy pat themselves on the backs for getting wee Johnny into that big Grammar school and all's well with the world.

The problem with MCGuinness and the removal of the 11+ was that the second part of the process (Costello report) was never implemented due to the CCMS and to an extent the DUP looking after the interests of the Grammar schools in their areas.
The second part of the process was for primary school teachers to assess kids throughout P6 and P7 against a standard criteria and then after discussions with parents at the end of the process to decide whether wee Johnny was fit for an academic based education or a vocational based one.

There are several issues with the implementation of the second phase as we all know too well that subjectivity isn't a given when mammy and daddy sit down to discuss wee Johnny.

Horseshit, I know some parents who are working class and struggle to help their kids and also struggle to pay for tutoring to give their kids a chance, send a child to St Pats in Armagh who needs a little extra encouragement that a proper Grammar would give, they have no chance, it has become a compete cesspit get them in and out is the motto, with those who don't want to learn spread evenly throughout any year bringing everyone down.

Why would a parent tutor a child to go to St Pats now considering their current setup?

[t_mac]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

I don't get the tutoring thing TBH and I've kids of that age.

As a parent we support them through the process like I do the elder ones who are Grammar school when they're struggling with homeworks or what not and the younger ones with their reading and writing etc etc.

Tutoring in my mind is once again parents abdicating their responsibilities onto someone else just because they can afford to.

And I've spoken to a few Grammar school teachers and they all say the same thing that they can tell within a matter of weeks which kids were tutored for the entrance exams and those that didn't.

The support has been removed as mammy and daddy pat themselves on the backs for getting wee Johnny into that big Grammar school and all's well with the world.

The problem with MCGuinness and the removal of the 11+ was that the second part of the process (Costello report) was never implemented due to the CCMS and to an extent the DUP looking after the interests of the Grammar schools in their areas.
The second part of the process was for primary school teachers to assess kids throughout P6 and P7 against a standard criteria and then after discussions with parents at the end of the process to decide whether wee Johnny was fit for an academic based education or a vocational based one.

There are several issues with the implementation of the second phase as we all know too well that subjectivity isn't a given when mammy and daddy sit down to discuss wee Johnny.

Horseshit, I know some parents who are working class and struggle to help their kids and also struggle to pay for tutoring to give their kids a chance, send a child to St Pats in Armagh who needs a little extra encouragement that a proper Grammar would give, they have no chance, it has become a compete cesspit get them in and out is the motto, with those who don't want to learn spread evenly throughout any year bringing everyone down.

Why would a parent tutor a child to go to St Pats now considering their current setup?

No they would tutor them to go to Dungannon or Newry to give them half a chance!

[t_mac]

The whole tutoring thing is a scam imho with teachers or ex teachers creaming it on the side. Kids either have it or they don't.

At 11?

[t_mac]

While ye Nordies are going on about schools Corbyn says Labour now agreeing to an Election.

Education is quite important you know.

[seafoid]

While ye Nordies are going on about schools Corbyn says Labour now agreeing to an Election.

Would be good if Alliance reduced the DUP down to size by taking 3 or 3 of their seats.

   https://www.ft.com/brexitlive

   Unease among Conservative MPs over election approach

"There is a lot of nervousness among Tory MPs about the impending election, despite Downing Street's eager approach to a pre-Brexit pre-Christmas poll. "It's like a can of paint. Once it's open, it's going to splatter everywhere. No one really knows how it's going to turn out," said one.

There is particular unease among the One Nation group of moderate MPs. "It all feels very hubristic, very Theresa May circa 2017.""

[seafoid]

https://electionresults.parliament.uk/election/2017-06-08/results/Location/Country/Northern%20Ireland

Most marginal seats by majority (%)   Average: 20.8%

1   Foyle   0.4%
2   Fermanagh and South Tyrone   1.6%
3   North Down   3.1%
4   Belfast North   4.5%
5   Belfast South   4.6%