Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

Started by Trevor Hill, January 18, 2010, 12:28:52 AM

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muppet

Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 23, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Disappointed in Alex Maskey who didn't do Sinn Fein any favours trying to sell a UI to unionists. Mind you Arlene was equally as clueless. Didn't know if she was coming or going but that the DUP all over.

i.d go with that. maskey was poor he didnt seem too well prepared

Had he never considered a United Ireland?
MWWSI 2017

Onion Bag

Quote from: Main Street on January 24, 2013, 05:47:57 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on January 24, 2013, 05:02:45 PM
Cant say either way saffron, but the point  im making is. Anyone with half a brain will take a look at the economic effect and if it is going to hit their pocket on a weekly or monthly basis they have to have a serious look at it. Republicans have fought for a united Ireland for decades and now that there is a possiblity of a Border Poll, it will be interesting to see what they will do if it ends up costing them e.g  £100-£150
£100 - £150??  Imagine the sheer reckless stupidity of the old rebels who endured hardships, jail, torture, laid their priceless lives on the line, for independence from the Empire, only for generations later where people are shrewdly balancing pennies and pounds, seeing which way they should vote.
All those rebels should have sat down and worked out the financial pros and cons as it affected their wallets, before causing such destruction. If only they had half a brain ::)

Couldn't agree more Main Street, they would be turning in their graves but it is bound to be a serious concern for SF. If you and Mrs Main Street were going to be e.g £300-£400 worse off every month in a UI, or you had to go the doctor next week and had to pull the cheque book out. Are you trying to tell me that this has not to be considered??
Hats, Flags and Head Bands!

Tony Baloney

Quote from: Onion Bag on January 24, 2013, 09:36:38 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 24, 2013, 05:47:57 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on January 24, 2013, 05:02:45 PM
Cant say either way saffron, but the point  im making is. Anyone with half a brain will take a look at the economic effect and if it is going to hit their pocket on a weekly or monthly basis they have to have a serious look at it. Republicans have fought for a united Ireland for decades and now that there is a possiblity of a Border Poll, it will be interesting to see what they will do if it ends up costing them e.g  £100-£150
£100 - £150??  Imagine the sheer reckless stupidity of the old rebels who endured hardships, jail, torture, laid their priceless lives on the line, for independence from the Empire, only for generations later where people are shrewdly balancing pennies and pounds, seeing which way they should vote.
All those rebels should have sat down and worked out the financial pros and cons as it affected their wallets, before causing such destruction. If only they had half a brain ::)

Couldn't agree more Main Street, they would be turning in their graves but it is bound to be a serious concern for SF. If you and Mrs Main Street were going to be e.g £300-£400 worse off every month in a UI, or you had to go the doctor next week and had to pull the cheque book out. Are you trying to tell me that this has not to be considered??
Of course it is a consideration especially for the squeezed middle. It's an easy box to tick for the well off or those on the bru in the North, who let's face it are likely to be at least as well off on the face of it. The thousands struggling to pay the bills every month will have to think long and hard about whether they want to live in a smaller house in a 32 county Ireland. It isnt as cut and dried as some people think. A chap on Nolan made the point last night that SF must be kicking themselves trying to sell a UI when the Rep is in such bad shape economically.

lawnseed

what maskey should have said 1. the health service thing.. we here in norn iron send our heart patients to dublin for surgery. we also just sent 3 government ministers and their mates to cuba to learn how to run a world class health service on a shoestring budget. would arlene like to live in a dictatorship... obviously not. the level of health care in any country is set by the elected government. it can be as bad or as good as you want.
2. the bank debt.. norn iron has been part of the uk for nearly a century when it was created its industry was the stuff of legend and the envy of the free world. since then britain has stripped it to the bone, the proud unionist work ethic has disappeared in exchange for a slum mentality of handouts and sickness benefits. even now work is plentiful in england while in the 6 counties we are floundering hardly 'as british as finchley'. the 26 counties started out with little or no industry and in isolation following poor decision making re WW1. hated and not trusted in britain and America the two victors. then add a mixture of crap leaders, nepotism,cronyism,treachery,theft, fraud,greed and the rotten den of paedophilia that is the catholic church and add mass emigration.  yet despite this poor start the 26 has survived.
while there is a hiccup in the finances of the 26 at the moment, we here in the "kidney" of the uk cannot really point to anything that remains of the great place the 6 counties used to be nor is there any chance of that situation changing. yet we know the 26 will dig their way out of the mess and probably be the better for it.
3. as has been said in a united ireland the Unionists would probably end up running the place because they'd end up holding the balance of power. that has to better than sitting in Parliament at nordie question time talking to the empty seats.

and on and on maskey needs to brush up if hes going to try to sell a united ireland. or join this board ;)
A coward dies a thousand deaths a soldier only dies once

Maguire01

Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 23, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Disappointed in Alex Maskey who didn't do Sinn Fein any favours trying to sell a UI to unionists. Mind you Arlene was equally as clueless. Didn't know if she was coming or going but that the DUP all over.

i.d go with that. maskey was poor he didnt seem too well prepared
Declan Kearney didn't have a clue on Hearts & Minds last year either. Has anyone in SF actually thought this through, or considered anything other than the 'romance' of it?

lawnseed

sec. of state teresa villiers the self proclaimed unionist...? no border poll for tereasa she pigeon holed herself on her arrival and the shinners have turned the spotlight on her. like big al she doesnt like bright lights more brains in a false face
A coward dies a thousand deaths a soldier only dies once

armaghniac

QuoteA chap on Nolan made the point last night that SF must be kicking themselves trying to sell a UI when the Rep is in such bad shape economically.

SF, like Bill Gates, probably think things will improve in the Republic.
The state of the Republics economy isn't really the issue though, the problem is the state of the 6 counties. Most nationalists want a united Ireland where all parts are equal, not where one part is an appendage of the other. The 6 counties isn't able to play its part and SF have no policy to enable it to do so, nor even an indication of the need for a policy.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Applesisapples

Quote from: Nally Stand on January 24, 2013, 03:14:19 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 24, 2013, 02:52:34 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 23, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Disappointed in Alex Maskey who didn't do Sinn Fein any favours trying to sell a UI to unionists. Mind you Arlene was equally as clueless. Didn't know if she was coming or going but that the DUP all over.
I have to agree with you there. If this poll is about starting a debate then fine. But as things stand there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of a majority of nationalists let alone an overall majority voting for a united Ireland. Before that happens we need to know what this unified state is going to look like. Listen to Conal McDevitt of the SDLP, he keeps reiterating that the debate needs to take place among nationalist first and formost.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that you are Conal McDevitt.
And I know who you are! #keep her lit!

Applesisapples

Sending street fighters like Maskey to take on Arlene is an embarrassment. The shinners need to start engaging with all shades of nationalist opinion. A United Ireland as a concept could be sold and accepted by a majority, however a lot of work needs to be done. It most certainly won't be a left wing workers republic and in its infancy will probably be federal in nature with the Brits underwriting some of the cost...which would suit the exchequer as there would be a net saving. Proper consideration and costings need to be done with the health service. The NHS cannot continue as it is and the Southern Health Service badly needs reform as well. I cringed when Maskey started talking about the Middle eastern conflicts. It is time for Adams to go, he's so proud of the 'RA he can't even admit to membership and his hands aren't completely clean regarding the brother's antics in Dundalk. Bring back Conor Murphy with John O'Dowd and Gerry Kelly and start working towards nationalist unity or at least concensus.

AQMP

Maskey was nothing short of woeful.  Came across as totally unprepared.  Foster didn't have to counter his arguments...he didn't have any arguments to make!!  Has anyone in SF in the North done any research on how a UI would work (other than the fleg)??

Maguire01

Just watched Maskey on Nolan. Brutal. How can SF not have a response to the most obvious of questions?

We also have Martina Anderson saying that republicans don't believe the poll will be successful:
http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/03/15/sinn-fein-does-not-expect-to-win-a-border-poll-but-would-relish-the-opportunity-for-a-public-conversation/

Should SF not have had their own conversation before Gerry announced his campaign?

Maguire01

Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
what maskey should have said 1. the health service thing.. we here in norn iron send our heart patients to dublin for surgery.
And if Arlene had been on her toes, she could have responded that that was proof that you don't need political unification to have co-operation, where it's clearly beneficial.

Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
3. as has been said in a united ireland the Unionists would probably end up running the place because they'd end up holding the balance of power. that has to better than sitting in Parliament at nordie question time talking to the empty seats.
That argument is unlikely to hold any water for Unionists. Would SF be convinced on the union if they held the balance of power at Westminster?

lawnseed

its worth remembering that while we are have this discussion on the sinn fein thread that sinn fein are not the only party trying to unite this island. so where are the stoops, the blueshirts, irish labour and fianna fail? the majority of political parties on this island "claim" to be republican. why aren't they also calling for a referendum and trying to work toward a united ireland. its hardly credible to criticize sinn fein for doing exactly what they say they re going to do in every election they contest
A coward dies a thousand deaths a soldier only dies once

Maguire01

Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
2. the bank debt.. norn iron has been part of the uk for nearly a century when it was created its industry was the stuff of legend and the envy of the free world.
You do realise that it was part of the UK before 1921 as well?

trileacman

Quote from: Maguire01 on January 25, 2013, 07:14:52 PM
Just watched Maskey on Nolan. Brutal. How can SF not have a response to the most obvious of questions?

We also have Martina Anderson saying that republicans don't believe the poll will be successful:
http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/03/15/sinn-fein-does-not-expect-to-win-a-border-poll-but-would-relish-the-opportunity-for-a-public-conversation/

Should SF not have had their own conversation before Gerry announced his campaign?

SF are trying to ride two horses here, you'll see it tearing them down the middle shortly.
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