Author Topic: Shell to Sea  (Read 32126 times)

Gnevin

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Re: Shell to Sea
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2008, 02:10:57 PM »
Was a point made in a Sunday paper , can't remember which one. That point was  that people living in town's and cities have to put up with far worse driving far closer to their door that these lads are complaining about . Should we all set up a protest when the neighbour wants to top up their oil tank , when the local shop gets in its order of calor gas ,when acids, poisons and toxins drive pass us?
Gn, I don’t think the reporter who wrote the above had done his research very well, and that’s putting it mildly.
For one thing, new gas pipelines cannot be routed closer than 200m to existing houses. It the case of the Rossport residents, the gas coming ashore is to be routed less than 70m from some of the houses there.
Furthermore, the gas being taken ashore is to be piped at several times the pressure that is considered safe by international standards.
Also, you’d need to keep in mind that ‘raw’ gas is more volatile than refined gas, on which the figures above are based.
What I’ve written above is based on findings by an independent research company employed by Shell to Sea in response to another ‘independent’ study funded by Shell and its associates.
The conclusions of both studies were, understandably, poles apart but the figures given by the anti-Shell side were claimed to be in the public domain and have not been refuted to date.
Does anyone remember the ‘Bunds’ controversy?
Before Shell came on the scene, Marathon was the company that carried out the initial stage of development at the site. Straightway, Marathon ran into problems with the local community due to its inadequate safety standards and its failure to comply with planning regulations.

They excavated in the region of a quarter million tons of surface peat from the refinery site and stored it on an incline overlooking one of the local roads. The problem was that Marathon proposed containing this wet peat by using a barrier of bunds, large concrete slabs, without any sort of foundations whatever. The bunds were being laid directly onto the surface of the surrounding bog and the genuine fear was that a spell of heavy rainfall could send the peat mountain and the bunds slithering down the hillside.
Local concerns were raised and Marathon was taken to court and this development was stopped but the seeds of suspicion were sown and when Shell arrived on the scene with its appalling international record of ruining local environments where they operated, it was always going to be a case of head on confrontation.

Most of the claims you post here come from SOS and have either been dismissed , changes made to address them or a simplely untrue . The point remains should i protest every time a truck drive up my road? 
SOS will only be happy when the project is NIMB'd

If a truck carrying untreated, unsented (undetectable in the case of a leak) gas canisters under several times the pressure concidered safe past your house then yes, you should protest.

Unsafe says the local residents and their experts , while the Irish government, shell and numerous others have said its fine
Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling.

Zapatista

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Re: Shell to Sea
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2008, 02:21:27 PM »

Unsafe says the local residents and their experts , while the Irish government, shell and numerous others have said its fine

I see.

Gnevin

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Re: Shell to Sea
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2008, 02:25:44 PM »

Unsafe says the local residents and their experts , while the Irish government, shell and numerous others have said its fine

I see.
Tell me why exactly the Irish government wants to wilfully endanger it own citizens?
Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling.

Zapatista

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Re: Shell to Sea
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2008, 02:26:43 PM »

Unsafe says the local residents and their experts , while the Irish government, shell and numerous others have said its fine

I see.
Tell me why exactly the Irish government wants to wilfully endanger it own citizens?

I give you the HSE.

magpie seanie

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Re: Shell to Sea
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2008, 02:28:31 PM »
Quote
Tell me why exactly the Irish government wants to wilfully endanger it own citizens?


Cos there's f*** all people living there and they need to get the gas to population centres where they can get votes. And thats before you speculate on other reasons.

Gnevin

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Re: Shell to Sea
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2008, 02:29:04 PM »

Unsafe says the local residents and their experts , while the Irish government, shell and numerous others have said its fine

I see.
Tell me why exactly the Irish government wants to wilfully endanger it own citizens?

I give you the HSE.

Compare these apples and oranges please!
« Last Edit: September 15, 2008, 02:32:32 PM by Gnevin »
Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling.

Gnevin

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Re: Shell to Sea
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2008, 02:32:13 PM »
Quote
Tell me why exactly the Irish government wants to wilfully endanger it own citizens?


Cos there's f*** all people living there and they need to get the gas to population centres where they can get votes. And thats before you speculate on other reasons.
So the Irish government would kill people for a few votes  ::)  Have you seen the opposition, the most dangerous thing in Mayo at any given time is Enda not a pipe line.

Unless the Russians cut off our supply this gas in which case it will be a god send , this pipe will have very little effect on the price of gas . I can't see how it will win votes

When your accusing the Irish Government of willing and unlawfully endangering life's you know you've lost the run of yourself
« Last Edit: September 15, 2008, 02:34:06 PM by Gnevin »
Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling.

magpie seanie

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Re: Shell to Sea
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2008, 02:41:54 PM »
I'm not saying its completely blatant but they're believing who it suits them to believe. More head in the sand than willful.

Quote
I can't see how it will win votes


If you really knew a lot about what happens outside Dublin you'd realise that vast tracks of the country do not have access to natural gas. It will be great for the new towns and cities that get connected. I just don't think it should be done this way.

Zapatista

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Re: Shell to Sea
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2008, 02:43:34 PM »
Compare these apples and oranges please!

The HSE and Government are willfully killing Irish people. I won't bother trying to explain why but it is an example that it does happen for whatever reason.

Gnevin

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Re: Shell to Sea
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2008, 02:43:55 PM »
What do SOS want?
Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling.

Gnevin

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Re: Shell to Sea
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2008, 02:47:54 PM »
Compare these apples and oranges please!

The HSE and Government are willfully killing Irish people. I won't bother trying to explain why but it is an example that it does happen for whatever reason.

Your comparing a multi-layer, civil service , self interest ,stuck in the past organisation like the Health service. Health services which the Brits still haven't got right , the yanks are a disgrace. The Canadians are taking their system apart peice by piece if why i read when i over their was correct. Too a problem the government got resolve in a pen stroke if it believed was a realistic health and safety issue
Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling.

Zapatista

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Re: Shell to Sea
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2008, 02:57:00 PM »
Your comparing a multi-layer, civil service , self interest ,stuck in the past organisation like the Health service. Health services which the Brits still haven't got right , the yanks are a disgrace. The Canadians are taking their system apart peice by piece if why i read when i over their was correct. Too a problem the government got resolve in a pen stroke if it believed was a realistic health and safety issue

Ok Gnevin fair enough.

I believe the Irish Government are capable of puting the lives of Irish people at risk if the percentages suit them as a Government.

Gnevin

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Re: Shell to Sea
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2008, 02:58:56 PM »
Your comparing a multi-layer, civil service , self interest ,stuck in the past organisation like the Health service. Health services which the Brits still haven't got right , the yanks are a disgrace. The Canadians are taking their system apart peice by piece if why i read when i over their was correct. Too a problem the government got resolve in a pen stroke if it believed was a realistic health and safety issue

Ok Gnevin fair enough.

I believe the Irish Government are capable of puting the lives of Irish people at risk if the percentages suit them as a Government.
Well if you truly believe that you should leave
Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling.

Lar Naparka

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Re: Shell to Sea
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2008, 03:00:07 PM »
Quote
Most of the claims you post here come from SOS and have either been dismissed , changes made to address them or a simplely untrue . The point remains should i protest every time a truck drive up my road? 
SOS will only be happy when the project is NIMB'd


I think I made no claims whatsoever!
To begin at the end, the fact is that Marathon did commence operations at the Bellenaboy site by using bunds to contain a mountain of wet peat on a hillside over looking a road used by the local community. The case against them was proved in open court.  Distrust of the multi-nationals began at this point and continues to the present day.
SOS claims being proved untrue or otherwise are matters I won’t comment on as they don’t concern me here.
I did say that existing legislation prohibits the laying of gas lines within 200m of existing dwellings and that raw gas is by its nature considerably more volatile than refined gas. Furthermore, it was proposed to pump this untreated gas ashore at several timers the pressure used for transporting mains gas from a refinery to its intended targets.
Now, if any of the above is untrue, I would like to know the source of the rebuttals because in all honesty I am unaware of them. Either the figures I quoted above are true or false and there can be no room for compromise here.
Whatever may have been proved about SOS claims or not proved, as the case may be, I have never heard of those figures being challenged by anyone. Another matter to have emerged form the claims and counter-claims saga is the charge that Shell’s proposed modus operandi has never been tried out anywhere else in the world before they proposed bring the gas ashore at Bellenaboy.
Where I would give a personal opinion is here:
. The point remains should i protest every time a truck drive up my road? 
I most certainly would if it transpired that unstable, highly combustible raw gas was being carried at two to three times the pressure that is normally used for refined gas.

Zapatista

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Re: Shell to Sea
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2008, 03:13:22 PM »

Well if you truly believe that you should leave

 :o

No room for oposition in Ireland? The Chinese would be proud of you.