11th night bonfires

Started by Fear Boirche, June 20, 2007, 11:03:19 AM

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Kilkevan

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on July 16, 2017, 08:20:17 AM
At what stage did SF decide to put country or even its people before party? The issue for SDLP is to decide who it represents and what they want that gives the party a distinctive characteristic which sets it apart from others. Good article in Saturday's Irish News by Patrick Murphy in which he describes 3 options for SDLP. They can slowly die, rebrand or merge and in two these they disappear. However, in these two they leave a significant number of the electorate, both voting and non-voting supporters, without representation.

Sinn Féin are extremely strong on an equality and respect agenda. Look at how strongly they've fought for gay marriage. They campaigned against the obscene gay blood issue and removed it. They have supported traveller rights. They have a very strong anti-racism agenda and are at the forefront against direct provision. They've also made brave decisions which could have alienated a part of their electorate by meeting royalty and attending various British Army remembrance events.

Owen Brannigan

Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 10:36:43 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on July 16, 2017, 08:20:17 AM
At what stage did SF decide to put country or even its people before party? The issue for SDLP is to decide who it represents and what they want that gives the party a distinctive characteristic which sets it apart from others. Good article in Saturday's Irish News by Patrick Murphy in which he describes 3 options for SDLP. They can slowly die, rebrand or merge and in two these they disappear. However, in these two they leave a significant number of the electorate, both voting and non-voting supporters, without representation.

Sinn Féin are extremely strong on an equality and respect agenda. Look at how strongly they've fought for gay marriage. They campaigned against the obscene gay blood issue and removed it. They have supported traveller rights. They have a very strong anti-racism agenda and are at the forefront against direct provision. They've also made brave decisions which could have alienated a part of their electorate by meeting royalty and attending various British Army remembrance events.

They are certainly strong on calling for an equality and respect agenda but the actions are thin on the ground.  Only Martin McGuinness was brave enough to take a stand on meeting royalty, no sign of his successor making much inroads in this area. The first statement from the new SF leader of Derry & Strabane council was that he wouldn't attend such occasions.

seafoid

#302
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2017, 10:07:31 AM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Kilkevan

Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 12:16:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2017, 10:07:31 AM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.

seafoid

Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 02:01:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 12:16:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2017, 10:07:31 AM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.
Ff,Labour, FG, SF and the DUP all run the neoliberal agenda
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Kilkevan

Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 02:01:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 12:16:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2017, 10:07:31 AM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.
Ff,Labour, FG, SF and the DUP all run the neoliberal agenda

SF are the same as FF and FG; usual Trot bullsh1te.

seafoid

Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 04:30:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 02:01:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 12:16:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2017, 10:07:31 AM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.
Ff,Labour, FG, SF and the DUP all run the neoliberal agenda

SF are the same as FF and FG; usual Trot bullsh1te.
Trots would support demand, not debt
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Kilkevan

Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 04:54:37 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 04:30:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 02:01:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 12:16:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2017, 10:07:31 AM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.
Ff,Labour, FG, SF and the DUP all run the neoliberal agenda

SF are the same as FF and FG; usual Trot bullsh1te.
Trots would support demand, not debt

You don't know what you're talking about; pure waffle.

seafoid

Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 04:58:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 04:54:37 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 04:30:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 02:01:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 12:16:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2017, 10:07:31 AM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.
Ff,Labour, FG, SF and the DUP all run the neoliberal agenda

SF are the same as FF and FG; usual Trot bullsh1te.
Trots would support demand, not debt

You don't know what you're talking about; pure waffle.
Justify your argument then in 150 words
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Kilkevan

Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 05:17:34 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 04:58:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 04:54:37 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 04:30:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 02:01:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 12:16:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2017, 10:07:31 AM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.
Ff,Labour, FG, SF and the DUP all run the neoliberal agenda

SF are the same as FF and FG; usual Trot bullsh1te.
Trots would support demand, not debt

You don't know what you're talking about; pure waffle.
Justify your argument then in 150 words

Why? When it's you coming out with rubbish like SF are the same as FF and FG, SF support debt and Trot politics is about supporting demand (which I can only assume is a malapropism).

seafoid

Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 05:17:34 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 04:58:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 04:54:37 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 04:30:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 02:01:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 12:16:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2017, 10:07:31 AM
Apart from being not SF, what is the SDLP and that "significant number if the electorate"  for?
SF are neoliberal
The SDLP could work on that

NI is weird cos the moderate parties were eclipsed by the DUP and SF
Maybe if there is another crisis voters will flip

Nonsense, Sinn Féin are democratic socialist, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are neoliberal.
Ff,Labour, FG, SF and the DUP all run the neoliberal agenda

SF are the same as FF and FG; usual Trot bullsh1te.
Trots would support demand, not debt

You don't know what you're talking about; pure waffle.
Justify your argument then in 150 words

Why? When it's you coming out with rubbish like SF are the same as FF and FG, SF support debt and Trot politics is about supporting demand (which I can only assume is a malapropism).
Demand focus means paying attention to  the interests of people to support things such as payrises, investment in people, public investment in projects, bank regulation  and reducing income inequality. Neoliberalism is the opposite. It focuses on debt and the short term interests of companies.
The SNP is neoliberal. So is SF.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Kilkevan

On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.

LCohen

Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 07:02:41 PM
On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.

Can you list their firm policy proposals and funding?

seafoid

Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 07:02:41 PM
On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.
In Government in the North they sign off on Tory austerity. . They are similar to Labour. Full of talk in opposition but do what they are told in government.
A SF government in the South would maintain 15% tax.
Being pro gay rights costs nothing. 

The problem with neoliberalism is that it is unstable. And when it crashes working class voters get shafted.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Kilkevan

#314
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2017, 07:44:18 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 07:02:41 PM
On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.
In Government in the North they sign off on Tory austerity. . They are similar to Labour. Full of talk in opposition but do what they are told in government.
A SF government in the South would maintain 15% tax.
Being pro gay rights costs nothing. 

The problem with neoliberalism is that it is unstable. And when it crashes working class voters get shafted.

Sinn Féin blocked the Tory welfare bill so it's absolutely false that they have toed the Conservative line at every point. Maintaining the 15% tax rate is necessary if Ireland wants to compete internationally. That's realpolitik, I don't like it and I suspect most in Sinn Féin don't but the country has to attract international employers if it wants to be successful.

The Great Unwashed Juche Front of Trotskyism or whatever they're calling themselves today want a society where nobody has any responsibilities whatsoever but only have rights. Real society doesn't function like that.

Name one single thing the likes of McCann, Carroll or Boyd Barrett have achieved other than saving the nation money in terms of soap and water (un)used in their offices.

Quote from: LCohen on July 16, 2017, 07:42:42 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on July 16, 2017, 07:02:41 PM
On the Sinn Féin website right now are press releases:

Calling for the reopening of Al Aqsa mosque (equality - left wing).
Raising concern over Bessborough (to avoid evidence against big organisations who mistreated vulnerable residents being lost - left wing).
Challenging the Taoiseach over Jobstown allegations (taking the side of the little man - left wing).
Calling the raising of pension age to 70 ridiculous (siding with older people - left wing).
Making dedicated respite care a priority (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Making affordable child care and tackling child poverty key priorities (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Highlighting only 21% of a fund for housing people with disabilities being spent in 2016 (supporting the vulnerable - left wing).
Condemning homophobic abuse (equality - left wing).

I could go on, but what's the point... Sinn Féin actually go out and tackle issues and fight for people on a left wing basis rather than sitting in darkened rooms, trying to ignore the smell from their unwashed hair, clothes and bodies whilst arguing about who is more left wing like the waste of space Trots with their goon show representatives like Eamonn McCann, Gerry Carroll (man makes me vomit) and Richard Boyd Barrett unable to decide on what to call themselves from one day to the next.

Can you list their firm policy proposals and funding?

All in the alternative budget which they publish every year and are, in fact, the only party to do so:

http://www.sinnfein.ie/budget2017