"Economic inactivity" in the north

[Tony Baloney]

So everyone who isn't seen to be working is a lazy hallion? To be honest, you've no idea of a lot of people's circumstances. It's not your business or mine, as to why they work or not.

Don't think there is one person on here who said that. Plenty of people can't work and the benefit system should work for them, it shouldn't be comfortable for people who choose not to work.

[TabClear]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58100957.amp

That's a pretty disturbing article about the cost of healthy food versus processed crap and unfortunately the reality of life if you are low income.  I would see it when I do the groceries,  half of the weekly spend is in the fruit and veg department. We are lucky in that both the wife and I  have decent jobs and the price of food isnt the primary consideration so we try to buy healthy for the kids (for very little thanks!) but it cant be easy when you are looking at 20 bags of crisps costing the same as 6 apples.

The major issue I have with some of the people on benefits is the fact they have so much disposable income. As was mentioned above, flash cars, holidays etc. While I know that in certain cases some of that income may not be "legitimate", what if benefits was in some way controlled so that you can only spend it for necessities (so no alcohol, cigarettes, dining out, pub drinks, Sky payments etc)  I know its not practical in reality and you would need to work out how you dont penalise the genuine claimants but I wonder would you see a different number if it was not landing in their accounts as cash.

[RedHand88]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58100957.amp

I'm not having this notion that unhealthy food is more expensive than healthy food. Takeaways are dear. Cooking at home is not. You can make a healthy home cooked meal for a few pound a head. Onions, carrots, spuds, these things are available in the big supermarkets for pennies.
Also can't see anywhere where a 24 pack of crisps (about £4) costs less than a punnet of grapes (£1-2)

As an example this evening, my wife is out for dinner, I made a curry from scratch for myself. It probably cost about 4 quid and took 45mins. Cheaper than a Chinese, chippy, etc.

[BennyCake]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58100957.amp

That's a pretty disturbing article about the cost of healthy food versus processed crap and unfortunately the reality of life if you are low income.  I would see it when I do the groceries,  half of the weekly spend is in the fruit and veg department. We are lucky in that both the wife and I  have decent jobs and the price of food isnt the primary consideration so we try to buy healthy for the kids (for very little thanks!) but it cant be easy when you are looking at 20 bags of crisps costing the same as 6 apples.

The major issue I have with some of the people on benefits is the fact they have so much disposable income. As was mentioned above, flash cars, holidays etc. While I know that in certain cases some of that income may not be "legitimate", what if benefits was in some way controlled so that you can only spend it for necessities (so no alcohol, cigarettes, dining out, pub drinks, Sky payments etc)  I know its not practical in reality and you would need to work out how you dont penalise the genuine claimants but I wonder would you see a different number if it was not landing in their accounts as cash.

Jesus Christ man, allow people the odd drink, mars bar or takeaway. It's not Guantanamo Bay!

People are struggling every day right under our noses, mentally physically and financially. If they didn't have the odd wee treat, the odd escape, what the feck would life amount to?

[seafoid]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58100957.amp

I'm not having this notion that unhealthy food is more expensive than healthy food. Takeaways are dear. Cooking at home is not. You can make a healthy home cooked meal for a few pound a head. Onions, carrots, spuds, these things are available in the big supermarkets for pennies.
Also can't see anywhere where a 24 pack of crisps (about £4) costs less than a punnet of grapes (£1-2)

As an example this evening, my wife is out for dinner, I made a curry from scratch for myself. It probably cost about 4 quid and took 45mins. Cheaper than a Chinese, chippy, etc.

Ignorance is expensive

[brokencrossbar1]

Jesus we have some levels of perfection in here.  Inter generational poverty is directly linked with inter generational underachieving at education, linked closely to crime and generally associated with people living in dire circumstances. Of course you'll have spots where people are 'milking' the system but I recall a few years when I was helping out doing some work for the Citizens Advice and it opened my eyes. It's estimated that no more that 6-7 % of welfare claims are dubious, and that's at its worst. Yes there are people who take liberties but having visited clients over the years in parts of Belfast, Antrim, and the surrounding areas around Lurgan I can guarantee you that no one one here lives as poorly as most people on benefits. Cardboard for carpets, plastic over windows, living off food banks, go and walk in their shoes and see how you get on.....

[RedHand88]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58100957.amp

I'm not having this notion that unhealthy food is more expensive than healthy food. Takeaways are dear. Cooking at home is not. You can make a healthy home cooked meal for a few pound a head. Onions, carrots, spuds, these things are available in the big supermarkets for pennies.
Also can't see anywhere where a 24 pack of crisps (about £4) costs less than a punnet of grapes (£1-2)

As an example this evening, my wife is out for dinner, I made a curry from scratch for myself. It probably cost about 4 quid and took 45mins. Cheaper than a Chinese, chippy, etc.

Ignorance is expensive

That's very true. A big problem is people not knowing how to do something basic like cook a home made meal. This should be more of a priority in schools than say, Pythagoras theorem. A few people may use Pythagoras theorem in their lifetime, but everybody will need to cook.

How to eat well for less is a great show on BBC which addresses this. They go into houses who are spending a few hundred pound a week on crisps and cake and show them how to prepare meals themselves. Savings usually equate enough for a luxury holiday over the year.

[Armagh18]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58100957.amp

That's a pretty disturbing article about the cost of healthy food versus processed crap and unfortunately the reality of life if you are low income.  I would see it when I do the groceries,  half of the weekly spend is in the fruit and veg department. We are lucky in that both the wife and I  have decent jobs and the price of food isnt the primary consideration so we try to buy healthy for the kids (for very little thanks!) but it cant be easy when you are looking at 20 bags of crisps costing the same as 6 apples.

The major issue I have with some of the people on benefits is the fact they have so much disposable income. As was mentioned above, flash cars, holidays etc. While I know that in certain cases some of that income may not be "legitimate", what if benefits was in some way controlled so that you can only spend it for necessities (so no alcohol, cigarettes, dining out, pub drinks, Sky payments etc)  I know its not practical in reality and you would need to work out how you dont penalise the genuine claimants but I wonder would you see a different number if it was not landing in their accounts as cash.

Jesus Christ man, allow people the odd drink, mars bar or takeaway. It's not Guantanamo Bay!

People are struggling every day right under our noses, mentally physically and financially. If they didn't have the odd wee treat, the odd escape, what the feck would life amount to?

Go earn the money to pay for it then....

[nrico2006]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58100957.amp

That's a pretty disturbing article about the cost of healthy food versus processed crap and unfortunately the reality of life if you are low income.  I would see it when I do the groceries,  half of the weekly spend is in the fruit and veg department. We are lucky in that both the wife and I  have decent jobs and the price of food isnt the primary consideration so we try to buy healthy for the kids (for very little thanks!) but it cant be easy when you are looking at 20 bags of crisps costing the same as 6 apples.

The major issue I have with some of the people on benefits is the fact they have so much disposable income. As was mentioned above, flash cars, holidays etc. While I know that in certain cases some of that income may not be "legitimate", what if benefits was in some way controlled so that you can only spend it for necessities (so no alcohol, cigarettes, dining out, pub drinks, Sky payments etc)  I know its not practical in reality and you would need to work out how you dont penalise the genuine claimants but I wonder would you see a different number if it was not landing in their accounts as cash.

Jesus Christ man, allow people the odd drink, mars bar or takeaway. It's not Guantanamo Bay!

People are struggling every day right under our noses, mentally physically and financially. If they didn't have the odd wee treat, the odd escape, what the feck would life amount to?

Go earn the money to pay for it then....

Was thinking the exact same.

[Kidder81]

Only fools and horses work.

If it's as good as you say, jack the job in tomorrow and join them.

It's some example to be setting to the weans in the house. Any fit and able man with children that does not work should be ashamed of himself

[armaghniac]

Seafoid's data above does show that in the 26 counties total employment did rise in Celtic Tiger when jobs were readily available and pay was increased. But of course others in similar circumstances did not bother availing of these jobs, when half of Poland was coming here to avail of them.
The message needs to go out that if you have problems then we as a society will help out but choosing to sit on your arse is not acceptable. Our model should be Scandinavian countries, they have generous benefits, but also active measures to get people off those benefits and into doing something useful.

[general_lee]

It's easy to have cheap shots at people at the lower end of the social scale in terms of a drain on our taxation and that is true.

In another breath sweet FA is being done and very little talk in the mainstream media about how the elite cream off government contracts to the tune of millions at a time under various guises and somehow that's more palatable.

Sure we see it here with Owen Paterson "advising" Randox...

The rules are written by the rich for the rich.

Definitely. Kevin Bridges made a good point - all these benefits go on booze and fags - both taxed to the dick...

[RedHand88]

It's easy to have cheap shots at people at the lower end of the social scale in terms of a drain on our taxation and that is true.

In another breath sweet FA is being done and very little talk in the mainstream media about how the elite cream off government contracts to the tune of millions at a time under various guises and somehow that's more palatable.

Sure we see it here with Owen Paterson "advising" Randox...

The rules are written by the rich for the rich.

Definitely. Kevin Bridges made a good point - all these benefits go on booze and fags - both taxed to the dick...

Because they're very unhealthy and people should be discouraged from using them.
High end champers is heavily taxed too.

[seafoid]

Jesus we have some levels of perfection in here.  Inter generational poverty is directly linked with inter generational underachieving at education, linked closely to crime and generally associated with people living in dire circumstances. Of course you'll have spots where people are 'milking' the system but I recall a few years when I was helping out doing some work for the Citizens Advice and it opened my eyes. It's estimated that no more that 6-7 % of welfare claims are dubious, and that's at its worst. Yes there are people who take liberties but having visited clients over the years in parts of Belfast, Antrim, and the surrounding areas around Lurgan I can guarantee you that no one one here lives as poorly as most people on benefits. Cardboard for carpets, plastic over windows, living off food banks, go and walk in their shoes and see how you get on.....

UK benefit levels are very low.
The UK also has a lot of prejudice against the poor. You can feel.it in England.
It's not as strong in Ireland.

I used to help out in a homeless shelter in London.. English service users woukd tell you that they were scum and that their parents were.  The Irish ones would talk about someone in the family who did well.

NI has the UK system.

[Kidder81]

Jesus we have some levels of perfection in here.  Inter generational poverty is directly linked with inter generational underachieving at education, linked closely to crime and generally associated with people living in dire circumstances. Of course you'll have spots where people are 'milking' the system but I recall a few years when I was helping out doing some work for the Citizens Advice and it opened my eyes. It's estimated that no more that 6-7 % of welfare claims are dubious, and that's at its worst. Yes there are people who take liberties but having visited clients over the years in parts of Belfast, Antrim, and the surrounding areas around Lurgan I can guarantee you that no one one here lives as poorly as most people on benefits. Cardboard for carpets, plastic over windows, living off food banks, go and walk in their shoes and see how you get on.....

UK benefit levels are very low.
The UK also has a lot of prejudice against the poor. You can feel.it in England.
It's not as strong in Ireland.

I used to help out in a homeless shelter in London.. English service users woukd tell you that they were scum and that their parents were.  The Irish ones would talk about someone in the family who did well.

NI has the UK system.

Are they ? How much do you think they should be ? £250ish per month per child on Universal Credit isn't very low in my opinion