Dual Citizenship

[Fiodoir Ard Mhacha]

Similarly, for a 9-county Ulster to have remained wholly within the UK would certainly have had a logic and coherence to it. Indeed, the fact that the Unionist majority over 9 counties would have been much slimmer, might just conceivably have caused them to be more respectful of the rights of the minority in Ulster, thereby avoiding the discrimination which was inflicted on Nationalists in NI, and their subsequent resentment and resistance?

Good point. I wish I had a TARDIS! But of course a 6-county statelet was created to ensure a Protestant parliament for a Protestant people.

But then again, the British have always been very 'resourceful' (but ultimately damning the partitioned country to years of slaughter) when it comes to conflict resolution......India, Palestine, North and South Rhodesia spring to mind.


I still feel those lines in the Gandhi film are powerful.........

BRIGADIER (indignantly, choked): My dear sir – India is British! We're hardly an alien power!

GENERAL: And how do you propose to make (the problems of India) yours? You don't think we're just going to walk out of India.

GANDHI: Yes . . . in the end you will walk out.

[armaghniac]

Silly and possibly (deliberately?) offensive parallels or even comparisons with the Third Reich might appeal to Mary McAleese and others who follow in De Valera's foot-steps (to the German representative's house in Dublin?- there's the irony) but are ludicrous.

The second world war was the last example of one European country invading another. Britain invading Ireland was an earlier example of the same thing, even if it was not the unique evil of the Nazis, it was evil nevertheless. Such an example is not ludicrous, in metaphor you use clear examples.

Re. an "Ireland of Equals", don't disagree there, either. But whilst I accept that for peace to prevail, a place in the NI government as of right must be accorded to all parties with an electoral mandate, I don't know of any Unionist who would be prepared to trust his fate to any independent Ireland where Sinn Fein had a realistic chance of control.

Well if you've been looking at the election results today Sinn Fein control of an all-ireland situation doesn't seem likely. Sinn Fein have many unpleasant features, but are an oddity, born of the unjust nature of the NI state, what use would they serve in a united Ireland. By refusing to deal with moderates unionism brings these extremists to the forefront. In the early part of the 20th century unionist could have talked to Redmond, but they refused to talk to anyone or countenance any form of political progress whatsoever which lead to an uprising and partition. In a situation where protestantism was strongly identified with colonialism and where most protestants give two fingers to the notion of democracy in Ireland and carved out their own gerrymandered state, the south was then criticised for being too Catholic, which was largely a consequence of most protestants having nothing to do with it. Most of the anti-British feeling that unionists go on about is brought about by themselves (plus a bit when watching the England soccer team!).

My point is that unionism hasn't had to look at its position previously, at one time NI was seen to make economic sense and the South could be portrayed as priest-ridden, in more recent times defending NI was seen to be opposing terrorists, in the future these black and white reasons will not be available

[magickingdom]

A large majority in one part of the island wanted independence from the UK and a large majority in the other part wanted to remain in the UK. Any attempt to enforce the wishes of one part over the other (either way) would inevitably have led to a bloody and protracted War throughout the island. So a settlement was reached (Partition) which was accepted by the majority of Irish people throughout the island i.e. by a majority in both parts."

thats fine eg just file it under fiction  . would you be ok with the partition of scotland considering the hugh parts of the north of scotland that just voted snp?


Which part of my post was fictional (i.e. factually incorrect)?

eg, the bold part is factually incorrect...

[Aerlik]

But EG, you stated you have/would call yourself British/Irish and 6-county statelet-ish if the situation arose...?  I don't have to put myself in that situation-my nation (Ireland) can hold its head up high in the world.  Not so "Mother England"...for anyone to suggest otherwise is blinkered, DUP-esque ignorance.

And like I said, I have chosen to take out Aus. citizenship because of my son, who was granted it by the fact he was born here to an Aus. mum.  'Twas I who had to apply for his Irish citizenship/passport.   Now, I am well aware the Lizzie the hoor is the head of state of Aus. but that is dwindling as the 10 quid poms are starting to fertilize the daisies.  She is head of state of another nation and I have no issue with that...I do have major issues with the fact that she is "head of state" of a part of my country.  You see, Aus. citizenship means one thing and that is a passport.  That's all; my Irish nationality will always supersede all else.

Sammy G???...(I think it was you, if not apols)
"I'd be amazed if a section of Scotland wanted to break-away but if they did they should be allowed to do so, exactly the same as the Free State was allowed to break-away"

Interesting use of "break away"...that implies that it was right that Scotland (Ireland) be annexed by the English in the first place.  Perhaps "become independent again" (although a little wordy) is correct.

[SammyG]

Sammy G???...(I think it was you, if not apols)
"I'd be amazed if a section of Scotland wanted to break-away but if they did they should be allowed to do so, exactly the same as the Free State was allowed to break-away"

Interesting use of "break away"...that implies that it was right that Scotland (Ireland) be annexed by the English in the first place.  Perhaps "become independent again" (although a little wordy) is correct.

'Become independent again' would make little or no sense as neither Scotland or Ireland were ever independent entities prior to being members of the UK. The where divided up into various kingdoms/lairdships/tribes etc.

[armaghniac]

'Become independent again' would make little or no sense as neither Scotland or Ireland were ever independent entities prior to being members of the UK. The where divided up into various kingdoms/lairdships/tribes etc.

This has to be one of lamest posts ever in the non-GAA section. Since the term UK referred to the union of Scotland and England and Wales how can you say that Scotland did not exist as an independent entities before the UK. Scotland existed as an independent entity for much longer than the UK has existed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Scotland. As for Ireland whether it had a localised or centralised stucture is neither here nor there, it was not ruled from England before England invaded.

[SammyG]

'Become independent again' would make little or no sense as neither Scotland or Ireland were ever independent entities prior to being members of the UK. The where divided up into various kingdoms/lairdships/tribes etc.

This has to be one of lamest posts ever in the non-GAA section. Since the term UK referred to the union of Scotland and England and Wales how can you say that Scotland did not exist as an independent entities before the UK. Scotland existed as an independent entity for much longer than the UK has existed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Scotland. As for Ireland whether it had a localised or centralised stucture is neither here nor there, it was not ruled from England before England invaded.

When did I mention anywhere being ruled by England? Try reading what I posted.

[armaghniac]

When did I mention anywhere being ruled by England? Try reading what I posted.

neither Scotland or Ireland were ever independent entities prior to being members of the UK.

Independent - i.e not ruled by someone else, in this case England.

Perhaps you mean that Scotland and Ireland were not entities before England made them so. Odd that the Romans knew about Hibernia.