The ulster rugby trial

[HiMucker]

Myths about rape

https://www.idas.org.uk/our-services/sexual-violence/myths-about-rape/

[Milltown Row2]

The fact that they were pissed will have a bearing on this, with no real hard medical evidence and witnesses not saying it looked like rape i find it hard that there will be enough to say, without doubt that this was rape, it could have well been and I hope that if it was rape then they get done good and proper. Just not conviced enough

Watched death row thing on TV the other night, there is a guy on death row who's there based on a 6 year olds ability to pick a man out from a line up after her mum was killed... No other evidence! now again he could have been the murderer but would you as a juror be happy with that type of case to convict knowing the outcome is the death penalty?

I'd find it very hard to be on a jury on a murder case, unless it was clear cut

[Milltown Row2]

Myths about rape

https://www.idas.org.uk/our-services/sexual-violence/myths-about-rape/

Job done, no point having court cases then and wasting that amount of tax payers money.. only 5% will be false according to the police

[HiMucker]

Myths about rape

https://www.idas.org.uk/our-services/sexual-violence/myths-about-rape/

Job done, no point having court cases then and wasting that amount of tax payers money.. only 5% will be false according to the police

Other than Syferus who is even insinuating that? 

[Milltown Row2]

Myths about rape

https://www.idas.org.uk/our-services/sexual-violence/myths-about-rape/

Job done, no point having court cases then and wasting that amount of tax payers money.. only 5% will be false according to the police

Other than Syferus who is even insinuating that?

Anyone who has judged this case found them guilty before all the evidence is read out!

[Keyser soze]

Myths about rape

https://www.idas.org.uk/our-services/sexual-violence/myths-about-rape/

No offence but I could have wrote this article and I am by no means an expert on the intricacies of sexual crime.

[gallsman]

Myths about rape

https://www.idas.org.uk/our-services/sexual-violence/myths-about-rape/

Job done, no point having court cases then and wasting that amount of tax payers money.. only 5% will be false according to the police

Other than Syferus who is even insinuating that?

Anyone who has judged this case found them guilty before all the evidence is read out!

Pretty much everyone on the thread other than Syferus has said it's hard to see how they'll be convicted.

[longballin]

Same as that, can't see a conviction. Beyond reasonable doubt is a high bar. Is a verdict maybe in America... case not proven maybe appropriate in trials.

[haranguerer]

I was veering towards believing the girl until I learned that she'd taken her own top off. Okay she says she was ordered to do it(would a man usually ask a girl politely to take her top off during consensual sex?) but she can't remember who ordered her to do it(imo if she'd been told to do it in a threatening way she'd remember). She also claimed that she "froze" when asked why she didn't cry out for help, but when asked/told to take her top off she did. That doesn't add up to me. Imo it looks like regret, not rape,  at this stage. The police interviews should be revealing though.

Would you not agree its possible your veering that way because you have a predetermined view of what rape is and what it looks like?  The vast majority of rapes are completely different from what we would see in a film.

Don't think so Mucker. I can accept that a girl could freeze and not struggle and my earlier posts on the thread would show I was inclined to believe her, but taking off her own top  because she was "ordered to" and yet being unable to recall which man ordered her to do so is something that doesn't add up to me at all.

If for example she had said "Olding ordered me to take my top off and I felt he was going to hurt me if I didn't" I could accept that, but to not remember and expect the jury to still accept the claim that she had done it due to intimidation and hadn't done so willingly is a huge stretch.

I would accept that there is a possibility you are right.  I would still doubt it though given the girls consistent evidence on the stand, but nevertheless that will be a factor for the jury.  I just find it odd that someone could be so adamant that the act of taking her top off, would determine if a rape took place or hadn't. Given the nature of a lot of rapes, ie nonviolent, victim compliant.

Most lads can't grasp that concept.

Compliance makes perfect sense in a threatening situation. There doesn't appear to me to have ever been the case made that the alleged victim was in fear of violence or felt threatened. Compliance in a non-threatening situation does not make sense, especially when there were numerous opportunities to ask for help, or extricate from situation.

[HiMucker]

Myths about rape

https://www.idas.org.uk/our-services/sexual-violence/myths-about-rape/

No offence but I could have wrote this article and I am by no means an expert on the intricacies of sexual crime.

Exactly. That's basically the point, but yet how many times have we seen posters on here propagate these misconceptions?

[Syferus]

Myths about rape

https://www.idas.org.uk/our-services/sexual-violence/myths-about-rape/

No offence but I could have wrote this article and I am by no means an expert on the intricacies of sexual crime.

Exactly. That's basically the point, but yet how many times have we seen posters on here propagate these misconceptions?

Repeatedly. But then they don't even have the perspective to understand they are wrong about rape nor why those misconceptions are so damaging to women.

[trueblue1234]

Myths about rape

https://www.idas.org.uk/our-services/sexual-violence/myths-about-rape/

No offence but I could have wrote this article and I am by no means an expert on the intricacies of sexual crime.

Exactly. That's basically the point, but yet how many times have we seen posters on here propagate these misconceptions?

Repeatedly. But then they don't even have the perspective to understand they are wrong about rape nor why those misconceptions are so damaging to women.

I think Fionn nailed Sfy with the below. Absolutely spot on.

I think it's quite interesting that Syferus is being rounded on here when there are a lot of posters here who have clearly made up their minds in the opposite direction based on nothing more than "rumour, wild speculation and innuendo", as the previous poster puts it.

Certainly the rumour and innuendo so far has been pretty much one way traffic against the complainant.

I haven't made up my mind and won't pass judgment on either party. However flawed the judicial system is,  its the best way to determine innocence or guilt.
How can Syferis pre-determine who is the innocent party based on media reports. To criticise other posters is to criticise himself.
If you study his post on any subject their is a constant theme of using it to project an image of superiority and condescension through belittling the average view. I find his writing quite delusional and completely devoid of any class or balance.
If he pulled the plug on this board you won't find too many expressing thoughts of sorrow and disappointment.
One the worst posters on the board.

Unfortunately Sfy has made this thread about him rather than the issue at hand. And you can be sure that is there is a guilty verdict, he will see this as victory and will point to other posters who had stated they would rather wait to see the rest of the evidence before making a decision as being wrong. He will play it out, trying to reinforce his superiority despite still being completely incorrect to make a decision based on one day's evidence.

Unfortunately he pollutes too many threads now.

I'm a little reluctant to take this thread off-topic more than it already has, but as it is...

...I have been messing about on the interwebs since around 1999 when I was first exposed to it as a naive, wild-eyed teen and ever since then I've participated on quite a lot of forums, message boards, chatrooms, newsgroups etc. right up to this day. And in my experience I don't think I've ever came across a poster/member/individual of any forum etc. that I have been on, or even in the off-line world, that displays a more blatant, stunning example of the Dunning-Kruger effect than the poster on this board who goes under the handle of Syferus. It is f*cking painful to read most of his/her posts, even though I have him/her on ignore they are inevitably quoted by others in response.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20131125-why-the-stupid-say-theyre-smart

And back on-topic, the trial has only really just begun, I'll wait until all evidence has been presented before I even being to start forming an opinion.

[Ty4Sam]

Mucker it's not just the fact that she took her top off. It's that she wants the jury to believe she did it under intimidation but can't remember who told her to take it off. I've said that 2 or 3 times already though and you seem to be deliberately misrepresenting what I said to suit your point.

Seanie, you're getting as bad as Syf for the condescending, self-righteous remarks and it seems to be a theme with one side of the argument in this thread.

The issue for the jury should be that no matter who "told" her to take off her top or whether she took it off voluntarily, the fact that she took off her top does not mean that she was consenting to have sex.  To make it more complex, as someone else posted, consent can be given and then withdrawn at any time.  I wouldn't fancy being a juror on this one.

Interesting point. If someone has given consent and then withdraws it during the 'incident' they surely have to make that known to the other person/persons? Would this have to be done verbally ie. 'no'?

[sid waddell]

Myths about rape

https://www.idas.org.uk/our-services/sexual-violence/myths-about-rape/

Job done, no point having court cases then and wasting that amount of tax payers money.. only 5% will be false according to the police

Other than Syferus who is even insinuating that?

Anyone who has judged this case found them guilty before all the evidence is read out!

Pretty much everyone on the thread other than Syferus has said it's hard to see how they'll be convicted.

I think it looks more likely than not that they will be convicted, particularly after what has happened this morning.

[Milltown Row2]

or what happened on the night is probably why they wont get convicted?