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Not the group Armagh would have wanted to be in of course. It looks like it will be very tough. Westmeath probably should have caught us at this stage last year and they almost caught Tyrone too. That certainly isnt an easy game.

Going to Celtic Park is always difficult for any team.

I dont expect there to be a big margin between the teams in any of the games and so the final standings could well be up in the air. Topping the pile would be amazing.  If not, then getting 2nd and securing that home advantage is essential. 

I'd agree. Winning the group is vital.
Galway definitely favourites with the 3 forwards all back and they've have had another 2 weeks training banked

The bookies don't share your view. Derry are 4/5 for next week's game and Galway 11/8.

Ahh naw! Hope the bookies aren't wrong this time

Galway are our bogey team and will be on a high after winning the provincial title.
Derry bound to be rattled and a little bit nervy after the Donegal thumping.
Wouldn't surprise me if we got beat - 50/50 game at best especially as we are away.

Hard to guage this group now.
Will Galway push on now they have some key players back?
Will Derry improve after the tanking by Donegal or fall apart?
Will Armagh be able to recover from the heartbreak of losing another final to another penalty shoot out?
Will Westmeath be rubbing their hands in anticipation of being all but written off by most.

There's no easy games in this group that's for sure.

This is getting hard to take at this stage.  It's ok sucking up one near miss on penalties but 4 now in 2 years?  Forgive me as an Armagh supporter for never wanting to see penalties in our games again.  For any  of you neutrals who think it's great entertainment, be careful what you wish for.  A lot said here and elsewhere about penalties being a lottery?  Sorry, that's nonsense. It's down to skill and composure.  If it was a lottery on the law of averages we would have won 1 or 2 out of those 4. 

For me it's hard to escape the notion that we do have a mental block when it comes to seeing out a game, and especially when we are in front.  I've got to the point now where I would rather we were a couple of points behind going into the final minutes where we don't have to think to much about it and just for for it. 4 points up in a game like that where 2 teams set up defensively was a big advantage heading into the last 15.  We just had to match Donegal on the scoreboard but we stopped scoring completely. Just one or two points in that final 15 or 20 minutes would have won it.  Collectively I think there's a lack of nous and smartness in decision making when the pressure is on, and I don't see a go-to player who will demand the ball and do something to get us over the line, whether that is a crucial high catch in the middle, having the confidence to nail an important score, or a driving run to set up somebody. To be fair I thought Nugent showed some of that confidence and attitude but there wasn't enough.

Really feel for the management and players though. It's a tough one to take and will be hard to motivate themselves.  McGeeney has had so many near misses with Armagh and Kildare. He must feel bloody cursed at this point.

I'd agree with with a lot of this.
I feel Armagh are now getting the maximum from these players and I think they now play a structure that suits the players they have, with O'Neill in MF.
However, the crux of the problem is that they are just a little short on quality overall. Otherwise they would have won some of those close games, or some of those penalty shootouts.
No shame in any of that, just the reality of "nearly" being there.

Can still beat anyone, but if trying to beat a top team they'll need to be at the top of their game and for their opponent to be off theirs.

I actually enjoyed that game.
Some brilliant defending, some class scores, not a goal chance over the whole game though.

That was actually the best I've seen Armagh playing in years. And the most disciplined, have to say they were much better than I expected.
Rian Oneill in midfield I think is definitely the best position for him. They are just short a few players I think.

When it went to penalties I fully expected donegal to win them and that Armagh would choke again. But as it played out, only one bad penalty out of 6. For the first time, I think Armagh would have won with a bit of luck.

Donegal maybe not as good as I thought they were either after the derry game. Certainly struggled for scores at times and around the middle 3rd. But they just have a few individuals who are a level above Armagh. When Armagh were 4 up they really should have pushed on, but donegal had the experience and know how to pull it back.

I though donegal substitutions were strange. Mcbrearty was an obvious penalty taker.
I'm guessing Rian was took off as geezer didn't want him taking a penalty maybe?

I enjoyed it. I'm in the minority but I love penalties, so for me it was a really good game.

Would actually rather have had donegal in our group games, but Armagh v derry will be tasty.

Rian was limping badly when he went off. Was clearly injured

Ah right, that explains it. Thought it was strange taking him off.

I actually enjoyed that game.
Some brilliant defending, some class scores, not a goal chance over the whole game though.

That was actually the best I've seen Armagh playing in years. And the most disciplined, have to say they were much better than I expected.
Rian Oneill in midfield I think is definitely the best position for him. They are just short a few players I think.

When it went to penalties I fully expected donegal to win them and that Armagh would choke again. But as it played out, only one bad penalty out of 6. For the first time, I think Armagh would have won with a bit of luck.

Donegal maybe not as good as I thought they were either after the derry game. Certainly struggled for scores at times and around the middle 3rd. But they just have a few individuals who are a level above Armagh. When Armagh were 4 up they really should have pushed on, but donegal had the experience and know how to pull it back.

I though donegal substitutions were strange. Mcbrearty was an obvious penalty taker.
I'm guessing Rian was took off as geezer didn't want him taking a penalty maybe?

I enjoyed it. I'm in the minority but I love penalties, so for me it was a really good game.

Would actually rather have had donegal in our group games, but Armagh v derry will be tasty.

Great game so far. Armagh look threatening in attack and owning the kickouts.
Some brilliant scores from both sides.
Armagh look slightly stronger right now.

I personally think its a mistake for Donegal to start McBrearty.
He's not the player he was, but would make a hell of an impact sub with 20 to go.

There's not an awful lot between the two, but I think Donegal edge it in terms of having better players overall. If they bring anywhere close to the same intensity they did to the Derry game, I don't see Armagh living with them for 70+ mins.

But it also wouldn't be a huge surprise if Armagh win it.
I wonder what the odds are for this to go to penalties? I almost hope it does to see how Armagh react.
I just hope its a good game to be honest.
I wish Derry were there going for 3 in a row so I am slightly jealous.

Derry away to Galway at 5:30 on a Saturday, taking the piss, that's some spin to come up the road again on the same nite.

What would be taking you up the road again?

Derry people don't like spending money.

Don't mind spending money, but I do mind being ripped off. Accommodation around Galway, especially if taking a family, is extortionate.
I'll pay my Gaago price before lining the pockets of some hotel or b&b who are sticking the arm in.

I don't know. I just have visions of Rian O'Neill giving a Tohillesque tour de force, driving Armagh on to win through sheer force of will.

Pundits leaning Armagh from what I've heard so far. "It's their time!" seems to be the consensus.

Sacrilege to even mention Rian O'Neill in the same sentence as Tohill!
One was a complete footballer who won everything there was to win in the game, a absolute collosus widely regarded as one of the best midfielders to ever play.
The other is Rian somebody.

[He didn't bury Shane McGuigan for biting him last year]

I don't know. I just have visions of Rian O'Neill giving a Tohillesque tour de force, driving Armagh on to win through sheer force of will.

Pundits leaning Armagh from what I've heard so far. "It's their time!" seems to be the consensus.

O'Neill will do well to see out the game!

on what basis?

He didn't bury Shane McGuigan for biting him last year so I'm sure the Donegal boys won't be able to goad him into anything.

That was big of him.
If Rian hadn't just fouled McGuigan needlessly, Armagh probably won that game. As for biting - I think that argument has been had and there was no clear evidence of biting. If there was, he should have got the line, but there wasn't even a retrospective view on it - so nothing to see there.

But they've done nothing in recent years to show they have the nerve to win a big game - I think they are just short a few players and need to focus on the football and not the physical antics they often get themselves involved in. If they focus on playing their own game and I think they'll do better than trying to out-tactic Donegal.

What physical antics? Have they been giving away more frees than the opposition? Have they had more cards?

Ok it may be a subjective view, but Armagh seem to overly focus on trying to out-muscle other teams. Often resulting in cards, sometimes resulting in spendings off. Example is last year's ulster final - it was a game Armagh could have won (especially given the circumstances around Derry), game almost over and Rian O'Neill made a bee line for McGuigan and took him down at shoulder height conceding a free which ultimately cost Armagh the game. No reckless physical tackle, Armagh win.
Armagh have been involved in a number of incidents over recent years with melee's and multiple sendings off.
Rian is close to being a liability in my view - undoubtedly very talented, but he's just as likely to get himself sent off in the first 10 minutes as he is to putting in a match winning performance imo.

That's what I mean by physical antics.
I've not issue with teams playing an aggressive game, but Armagh seem to step over the line more often than others. In my opinion, reigning that part of the game in a little and focusing more on footballing side of it will be of more benefit to Armagh.

I personally think that Donegal will be 4-5 point winners.
Donegal didn't get the credit they deserved for walloping Derry and were narrowly beaten in an Ulster final 2 years ago.
They've already beaten Armagh in a final this year, however, were didn't perform at the same level against tyrone as they did against Derry. Some of their attacking play against Tyrone was poor enough.
They have, in my opinion, a better manager and overall better players than Armagh.

Armagh have struggled to beat a limited Down team and were not that impressive against Fermanagh.
Ok, they are perhaps trying to peak for the final so may improve.
But they've done nothing in recent years to show they have the nerve to win a big game - I think they are just short a few players and need to focus on the football and not the physical antics they often get themselves involved in. If they focus on playing their own game and I think they'll do better than trying to out-tactic Donegal.

Of course I could be entirely wrong, just my read on it.

Derry were 4 up at HT in ET and then decided to give up the kickouts (which they dominated in the first half of ET) this gave Tyrone the impetus to come and chase down the lead - Derry will be devastated - poor game management both on the pitch and along the line letting that lead slip.

It thought in general, that team was badly managed. All afraid to shoot until the certain score was on, side-to-side, pass back mentality seems to be ingrained in this group of Derry players.
I thought we had better footballers all over the field, but our attack play was so slow and rarely did the player on the ball look up to see the runner.
Tyrone's blanket got back really quick, and they attacked directly and at pace.
Management need to take responsibility for that loss if you ask me as tactics won/lost that game

Agree with some of the other comments on turnovers - really cost us.

The whole game just felt like if Derry threw caution to the wind in attack, we'd get through or get fouled.

Tyrone more "cute" out the field and definitely more physical. But for me, Derry had the better players.

Generally I like penalties (I know I'm in the minority), but that was brutal from a Derry pov. Size difference in the two keepers was really noticeable, but the quality of penalties by Tyrone was much better.

Any word on Padraig McGrogan's injury?

I heard that it is a cruciate ligament injury. If that's true he's gone for the season.

When did he do that?
Huge loss for us but hopefully he makes a full recovery.
Really need Mckinless's injuries to be cleared up.

Donegal will win at a canter.

It's Armagh's to lose.
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unless it goes to penalties