Why Ireland s will have to be united economically ?

[SuperMac]

I'm invovled in a discussion on Irish history and the needs for a United Ireland. Historically I can hold my own, but on economic matters, well lets say I'm not great. So lads - and some of you are white collar nerds etc - can you give me any pointers to the long term inevitably and how the country would be better off united ??

Also, since I'll have partionists/west brits etc opposing me, could you give me the negatives of partition economically ??

[fred the red]

The one currency (euro) would help promote cross boarder trade/investment etc.

[Gnevin]

Negatives
Expensive the unification of Germany cost billions
The North is a basket case economy ,nearly entirely supported by the state
The possible cost of security a loyalist counter war
Integration of the two systems could take years  

Positives
No border would lower costs by revenue
Integrated developed

[comethekingdom]

The whole economy of south armagh would collapse as no border = no smuggling!

[dec]

North would benefit from 12.5% corporate tax rate rather than current UK rate.

[Ash Smoker]

The downsides:
The cost of integrating services would be huge.
The education system would need to be overhauled.
Unionists could hold the balance of power in any new parliament with about 20% of the vote and may disrupt changes.
Also the North's unproductive economy would be exposed - the lack of innovation and entrepreneurship, the dependency on handouts, a less rounded education system that you receive from Britain.
There could also be a brain drain if there is a large departure of Unionists from top civil service positions or other key knowledge holding posts.

The benefits:
Tourism would eventually improve
Marketing the island abroad as a place to do business would be easier
Tax evasion and smuggling would cease and increase government revenue

[comethekingdom]

The country would be in a financial mess. The economy of the 6 counties is highly dependant on handouts from the english gov. I dont know what the figure for public sector/civil service employment exactly is in the north but it would be unsustainable for the rest of Ireland to support them. There would have to be major cut backs to some of the public services enjoyed by the people of the north eg the NHS would have to be thrown out. All in all - romantic as it may look to most nationalists, would they really give up all their freebees from the english and pay their own way? The irish gov. could certainly not afford a united Ireland - even before the current economic crisis. The only ones that would agree to a UI in my opinion would be the English obviously from a financial perspective.

[pintsofguinness]

All in all - romantic as it may look to most nationalists, would they really give up all their freebees from the english and pay their own way?

Well if they wouldn't they're not nationalists.

[comethekingdom]

All in all - romantic as it may look to most nationalists, would they really give up all their freebees from the english and pay their own way?

Well if they wouldn't they're not nationalists.

I'd say if you asked most of them to choose - they'd keep the status quo - money speaks all languages! And you'd have to agree with them - eg to road tax a car in ROI is €560. Equvalent car in the north under the english system is £135 stg! Cars cheaper to buy. VAT rate is 3.5% less than the Irish rate. Stamp duty rates much lower. Price of drink in pubs and hotels is much less in the 6 counties. It goes on and on!

[pintsofguinness]

All in all - romantic as it may look to most nationalists, would they really give up all their freebees from the english and pay their own way?

Well if they wouldn't they're not nationalists.

I'd say if you asked most of them to choose - they'd keep the status quo - money speaks all languages! And you'd have to agree with them - eg to road tax a car in ROI is €560. Equvalent car in the north under the english system is £135 stg! Cars cheaper to buy. VAT rate is 3.5% less than the Irish rate. Stamp duty rates much lower. Price of drink in pubs and hotels is much less in the 6 counties. It goes on and on!

So? I'm a northern nationalist I'd vote for a United Ireland no matter how out of pocket I'd be.

If you got a chance then would you vote for Britain to govern the whole of Ireland again?

[comethekingdom]

All in all - romantic as it may look to most nationalists, would they really give up all their freebees from the english and pay their own way?

Well if they wouldn't they're not nationalists.

I'd say if you asked most of them to choose - they'd keep the status quo - money speaks all languages! And you'd have to agree with them - eg to road tax a car in ROI is €560. Equvalent car in the north under the english system is £135 stg! Cars cheaper to buy. VAT rate is 3.5% less than the Irish rate. Stamp duty rates much lower. Price of drink in pubs and hotels is much less in the 6 counties. It goes on and on!

So? I'm a northern nationalist I'd vote for a United Ireland no matter how out of pocket I'd be.

If you got a chance then would you vote for Britain to govern the whole of Ireland again?

No way! But what we never had we could never miss (eg NHS). All I ever hear from people from the north say when I meet them is that the south is fierce dear and they dont know how we can afford to live there

[fred the red]

All in all - romantic as it may look to most nationalists, would they really give up all their freebees from the english and pay their own way?

Well if they wouldn't they're not nationalists.

I'd say if you asked most of them to choose - they'd keep the status quo - money speaks all languages! And you'd have to agree with them - eg to road tax a car in ROI is €560. Equvalent car in the north under the english system is £135 stg! Cars cheaper to buy. VAT rate is 3.5% less than the Irish rate. Stamp duty rates much lower. Price of drink in pubs and hotels is much less in the 6 counties. It goes on and on!

So? I'm a northern nationalist I'd vote for a United Ireland no matter how out of pocket I'd be.

If you got a chance then would you vote for Britain to govern the whole of Ireland again?

No way! But what we never had we could never miss (eg NHS). All I ever hear from people from the north say when I meet them is that the south is fierce dear and they dont know how we can afford to live there

Average salaries in the south are higher than the north. Its all relative.

[pintsofguinness]

No way!

exactly!

[armaghniac]

And you'd have to agree with them - eg to road tax a car in ROI is €560. Equvalent car in the north under the english system is £135 stg! Cars cheaper to buy.

These are just variations, there is little mention of things like rates which swing the other way. The only issue is the overall level of taxation, you can divide it up whatever way people want. Car tax goes to local councils you could introduce rates and lower car tax.

[brokencrossbar1]

Exactly armaghniac.  I had this discussion in work the other day.  A lad was complaining because his bin charges for the year had gone up to 390 euros.  I explained to him that when I lived in Belfast my rates for the year were £1750.  He couldn't believe it.  Also when we first moved down I got car insurance quotes for north and south.  The quote in the north was around £700 whereas the insurance down here was 380 euros!!!  You can compare all you like,but take it from me we have a better standard of living in Cork than we ad in Belfast.  An example of how there isn't a whole pile of difference, we would go out to a local place for food.  Your average steak meal with dessert and bottle of wine for me and Mrs BC would cost around 85 euros.  Nothing too fancy mind you, just nice and tasty.  We went to a similar style place in Cushendall the last time we were up.  We got the exact same type of meal and had no change out of £60.  Do the maths and you will see that there is little difference. 

It will happen in the next 5 years, but a closer link to Europe will be how it happens.  That will only happen though if the Tories do not win the election. That may just be the case.