Brexit.

Started by T Fearon, November 01, 2015, 06:04:06 PM

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vallankumous

Quote from: johnneycool on November 10, 2017, 01:35:39 PM

They want to be as british as Finchley, but I'm sure the farmers in Finchley aren't shipping their meat and dairy products to processing plants in the South of Ireland.

What about the poultry farmers?

Breggsit will impact them too.

Rossfan

Will Finchley be having a border poll to see if they want to unite with someone?
I see British Minister Davis says "they" aren't going to split "our UK".
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

seafoid

Quote from: AQMP on November 10, 2017, 12:53:37 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 10, 2017, 12:43:02 PM
I don't think the British government gave much thought to 'the Irish problem'. To me they don't know what to do about it. Does NO remain inside the common market like the rest of Ireland with a frictionless border, or outside the EU totally and with a border. After all the whole Brexit vote was to 'protect the borders' despite what everyone says. What ecactly do the DUP want? Do they even know themselves?

The DUP's motivation is to support anything that makes the divide between the two parts of Ireland wider.  I don't think they've considered, or care about, day to day consequences.
Money is more important to voters than ideology.
Brexit will make NI poorer.

Fox says he can get 30 trade deals to replace the 40% of exports that go to the EU. Hammond calls him a fantasist.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

johnneycool

Quote from: vallankumous on November 10, 2017, 02:08:42 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on November 10, 2017, 01:35:39 PM

They want to be as british as Finchley, but I'm sure the farmers in Finchley aren't shipping their meat and dairy products to processing plants in the South of Ireland.

What about the poultry farmers?

Breggsit will impact them too.

Of course, not to be taken literally.  All manufacturers of dairy products are equally blessed.


8)

Denn Forever

So willl the Junior Doctors have to work 60 hours week now that we've got rid of those pesky EU laws?
I have more respect for a man
that says what he means and
means what he says...

AQMP

John Crace sums it up:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/10/babble-brexit-progress-dave-ooze-defeat-barnier

Babbling about Brexit progress, Dave only oozes defeat.

It's all starting to get a bit embarrassing. In the press conferences following the early rounds of negotiations, Michel Barnier used to make a point of making most of his remarks in English to make things easier for David Davis. But at the sixth time of asking he's clearly decided there isn't any language that Davis properly understands, so he might as well suit himself and speak in his native French.

Barnier bashed his head against the lectern. He wasn't sure how much plainer he could be. What bit of "sincere and real progress" did the British Brexit secretary not understand? He tried again. This time speaking a bit slower. As he would to a not-very-bright six-year-old.

If Britain wanted to move on to the next phase of talks, it had to come up with something better than making progress towards making progress, he said. The EU wasn't asking for, nor would be making, any concessions. It was all a matter of legal certainty. And while some work had been done – with a little help, Davis was now often able to locate the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland on a map – there was still much more that needed to be done.

When he moved on to the financial contributions, Barnier couldn't resist a little smirk. He'd had tougher negotiations with his kids over how much TV they could watch than he had with the British contingent. His kids would never have limited their options so catastrophically by triggering article 50 before they knew what they wanted as an outcome.

"The UK decided to leave the EU more than 500 days ago and..." he said, his voice tailing off. And next to nothing had happened since. The clock was ticking for the UK, not the EU. Britain would be leaving the EU on 29 March 2019 and it could either do so in an orderly manner by making an effort to get to grips with the situation, or fall out chaotically without a deal.

Davis – almost certainly unintentionally – gave every impression that a chaotic no deal was precisely his preferred option. He began by talking about the "new dynamic" of the negotiations since the prime minister's Florence speech. New dynamic as in slower dynamic. The monthly talks usually last four days; this round had been reduced to two days since everyone realised it would be a waste of time to spend any longer getting nowhere

On the substantive issues, Davis appeared equally lost. He still hasn't grasped the logic of Northern Ireland needing to remain in the single market and the customs union to prevent the need for a hard border and he also appears not to understand the fundamental imbalance of power within the negotiations. As for the financial settlement, "substantial technical progress" had been made. Britain had finally agreed the currency. If not the amount. "We've listened carefully and responded," he said. Barnier appeared bewildered by that.

Questions from the media only underlined how little progress had been made. Was it true there was no chance of the European council agreeing to move the talks on to the next stage unless Britain put a whole load more cash on the table within the next two weeks, a German reporter asked. Barnier paused. There was a time when he might have been inclined to dodge that question to give the Brits a bit of slack, but now he was right out of patience. Davis would just have to suck it up. "Je pense que oui," he said. ("I think so.")

Even Dopey Dave understood that. There were just two weeks to try to save Brexit. He looked around for help, before it dawned on him that he was the person on whom the country was counting. He mumbled something about being willing and able, while sounding anything but. His expression was of a man who had only just realised he was completely out of his depth. Defeat oozed out of every pore. The Brexiter for whom hubris beckoned unless the Maybot was suddenly willing to hand over €60bn.

The sense of deadlocked resignation spilled out into the room as Barnier went on to say they had barely scratched the surface of the negotiations. We were still a long way off the end of the beginning. He was then asked if he thought Theresa May would still be in power by the end of the year, let alone by the end of the negotiations. Barnier declined to comment though he didn't appear to care much either way. Or to offer much hope for her survival.

"We're making progress," Davis insisted as he was led away by his child minder. One day he would say it and it might be true. But not today. Or probably any time soon.

seafoid

Brussels and the Irish govt want to keep NI in the customs union and Single market to protect the GFA and avoid a hard border. The UK govt doesn't want this because it is dependent on the DUP for its majority. The DUP would pauperise its own people.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Farrandeelin

Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2017, 02:39:17 PM
Brussels and the Irish govt want to keep NI in the customs union and Single market to protect the GFA and avoid a hard border. The UK govt doesn't want this because it is dependent on the DUP for its majority. The DUP would pauperise its own people.

Thought the DUP wanted a frictionless border? Or am I mistaken with all the different scenarios that has been presented.
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

armaghniac

Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 11, 2017, 04:13:59 PM
Thought the DUP wanted a frictionless border? Or am I mistaken with all the different scenarios that has been presented.

They say, like their masters, that they want a frictionless border with the UK out of the Single market and the Customs Union.
This is impossible, of course, and you know rightly that they will go for non frictionless border. They would probably build a minefield and a fence if they thought they would get away with it.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

imtommygunn

Anything which would make crossing the "border" more difficult would in their eyes be great. They don't seem to grasp that they are just pushing middle ground people more towards desiring a united ireland. Fools.

armaghniac

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 11, 2017, 04:56:43 PM
Anything which would make crossing the "border" more difficult would in their eyes be great. They don't seem to grasp that they are just pushing middle ground people more towards desiring a united ireland. Fools.

From their perspective they could create such economic chaos and disconnection that you could have an unhappy NI, but one in which it was difficult to come up with a useful model to change it.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

The Unionists want something because they think the world owes them a living.  They think they are superior to the Irosh so they can get what they want. But that is over.

The Single market is like pregnant. There is no halfway. Protestant farmers will be the big losers. The battle of the Ford of the biscuits 2.0
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2017, 06:28:44 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 11, 2017, 04:56:43 PM
Anything which would make crossing the "border" more difficult would in their eyes be great. They don't seem to grasp that they are just pushing middle ground people more towards desiring a united ireland. Fools.

From their perspective they could create such economic chaos and disconnection that you could have an unhappy NI, but one in which it was difficult to come up with a useful model to change it.
Unionism assumes British is better off economically than Irish. Not any more. Sometimes the "parent " country fucks it up. Alsace isn't in Germany now.

Brexit is madness.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

armaghniac

If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Dubh driocht

Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2017, 02:39:17 PM
Brussels and the Irish govt want to keep NI in the customs union and Single market to protect the GFA and avoid a hard border. The UK govt doesn't want this because it is dependent on the DUP for its majority. The DUP would pauperise its own people.

This is it in a nutshell. The next few weeks are critical in the history of this island. The current Tory Government is the worst in my  lifetime, I feel sorry for the PM as she is clearly out of her depth but she is dependant on the DUP to save her. The same DUP whose political analysis and vision is being laid bare at the opening days of the RHI Inquiry, expertly summarised by Conor McAuley on BBC. So if David Davis maintains his position of no boundary or border in the UK we are headed for No Deal, Hard Brexit and economic disaster for both jurisdictions in Ireland.If anyone on here has any contact with someone in the DUP who has any sense, ask them if they really want this to happen ? Or is Lisa Evans the official spokesperson for progressive unionism?