Author Topic: Water Charges. How much?  (Read 15311 times)

Denn Forever

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Water Charges. How much?
« on: May 14, 2014, 02:14:17 PM »
With the charges coming, does anyone know where to find the information? 

All sorts of figures about from 60/quarter to 500 year.  Standing charges from 50 to 250 year.  Stories of Poole forgoing showers as they  are afraid of using too much water.
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Billys Boots

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Re: Water Charges. How much?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2014, 02:21:19 PM »
The general rule (in civilised parts) is that it is about the same annual cost as electricity, though they'll have different monthly costs (electicity high in winter, low in summer - water the opposite).  The bigger the household, the bigger the cost, annually, etc.
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AZOffaly

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Re: Water Charges. How much?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2014, 02:23:58 PM »
My electricity costs about 220 every two months. Is that what I'll be facing in Water charges?

orangeman

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Re: Water Charges. How much?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2014, 02:33:57 PM »
My electricity costs about 220 every two months. Is that what I'll be facing in Water charges?

Bottled water would be as cheap.

Electricity is cheap relatively speaking.

armaghniac

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Re: Water Charges. How much?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2014, 03:10:28 PM »
There is a lot of hype about water charges. You don't hear of many people nowadays taking cold showers to avoid the cost of putting on the water heater. And whether your bill is similar to your electric bill depends on a lot of things, e.g. what are you using electric for, this might be just lighting and appliances or you might be using it for heating etc.


Quote
Bottled water would be as cheap.

Only that Rockwell p1ss!!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 05:43:07 PM by armaghniac »
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Rossfan

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Re: Water Charges. How much?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2014, 05:34:31 PM »
People on group water schemes and who pump water from wells and the like have been paying for water for years and didn't get lower tax rates or the like.
The Govt were spinning that the "average" cost per household will be 240 p.a. = 4.80 per week. You wouldn't get a pint for that in some parts of the Country.
I believe the Energy Regulator will be announcing the scale of charges, free allowances and all that in August.
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Mayo4Sam

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Re: Water Charges. How much?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2014, 03:40:10 PM »
I find it hard to see how people are protesting against this.
It costs to get water to your tap, that has to be paid for, there are massive inefficiencies in the system that need to be fixed but also behavior needs to be addressed, the best way of doing that is through charges per unit.

The only people who should complain are those without drinkable water, which this should solve eventually and I believe they don't have to pay anyway.

Ever think that a lot of the people protesting are probably the same people who will receive free water?
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gallsman

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Re: Water Charges. How much?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2014, 03:50:34 PM »
I find it hard to see how people are protesting against this.
It costs to get water to your tap, that has to be paid for, there are massive inefficiencies in the system that need to be fixed but also behavior needs to be addressed, the best way of doing that is through charges per unit.

The only people who should complain are those without drinkable water, which this should solve eventually and I believe they don't have to pay anyway.


There are counter arguments to that though:

How has water been paid for since the founding of the state?
Why is another large semi state body (already surrounded in scandal) required to oversee this?
How believable are they when they say Irish Water won't be privatised down the line? Private water in the UK has been an unmitigated disaster.
What is the rationale for the proposed charges?
How can they justify charges without getting meters into homes?
How to they plan to use the revenue raised to improve the infrastructure?
If they fix the infrastructure, will the charges reduce accordingly?

It's not a black and white argument.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 03:53:11 PM by gallsman »
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Mayo4Sam

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Re: Water Charges. How much?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2014, 04:29:28 PM »
Well I should declare an interest and state that I've worked to Bord Gais in the past. IMO they did a good job with the gas network roll out.

On privatization, they haven't privatized the gas or elec network so no reason to believe they will with water.
The money has to go back into the infrastructure purely because we've had 90 odd years of a system where you got investment for water infrastructure when it was broken, there was no incentive for up keep, run it into the ground and then get government money to rebuild. The infrastructure is in dire shape and will take a long time to fix, I would estimate 15-20 yrs. in theory charges should reduce but it won't be today or tomorrow, if anything they may find the hole we're in is larger than they thought
meters are in their way, not sure what the programme is but I would imagine anyone without a meter will pay less than those with a meter, you have to start somewhere.
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foxcommander

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Re: Water Charges. How much?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2014, 04:38:57 PM »
If you knew that every cent raised by privatising the water was being put back into making it affordable and reliable for people then i don't think people would have a problem.

When it starts to line fat fockers pockets like politicians and mobile phone magnates then you have to ask questions about in who's interests these charges are for. seems like theres a fair few getting rich off the back of this.

Only thing next is oxygen. I think of Total Recall (the arnie one) when I think of how government will be able in the future to cripple the people with basic needs if they don't toe the line.

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NetNitrate

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Re: Water Charges. How much?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2014, 06:58:52 PM »
When I emigrated to USA, I was surprised to have to pay water charges, as I was accustomed to getting this for free in Ireland. The first leak I had the water authority were able to notify me by the meter reading that I was wasting water and running up my bill. It's the responsible thing for Ireland to do, to invest in water, to meter it. There's lot of things worthy of protest but metering and investing in our water should not be one. Total political opportunism by those parties telling people not to pay.

Maguire01

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Re: Water Charges. How much?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2014, 07:32:47 PM »
I find it hard to see how people are protesting against this.
It costs to get water to your tap, that has to be paid for, there are massive inefficiencies in the system that need to be fixed but also behavior needs to be addressed, the best way of doing that is through charges per unit.

The only people who should complain are those without drinkable water, which this should solve eventually and I believe they don't have to pay anyway.


There are counter arguments to that though:

How has water been paid for since the founding of the state? The point is that it hasn't been properly paid for, hence the state of the network.
Why is another large semi state body (already surrounded in scandal) required to oversee this? That's a different argument. You could have it as a stand-alone organisation and still have charges.
How believable are they when they say Irish Water won't be privatised down the line? Private water in the UK has been an unmitigated disaster. Again, a different argument. And water hasn't been privatised in Scotland (a publicly owned company) or Wales (a not for profit company), despite water charging being in place for some time.
What is the rationale for the proposed charges? There are many - so that people pay for what they use, so that people who don't use don't pay, so that funding is ring-fenced and invested in the infrastructure...
How can they justify charges without getting meters into homes? Not ideal clearly, but in itself, not an argument to rule it out altogether.
How to they plan to use the revenue raised to improve the infrastructure? That will be overseen by the regulator (the CER).
If they fix the infrastructure, will the charges reduce accordingly? As above, charges will be subject to agreement from the regulator and will be based on what IW needs to spend to deliver water, receive sewage, and maintain the network. Some things may reduce costs, such as reducing leakage, whilst other things may increase costs, such as the price of electricity, more stringent environmental regulation etc.

It's not a black and white argument.
See above in bold. There's a lot of info out there already.

FL/MAYO

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Re: Water Charges. How much?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2014, 07:47:16 PM »
When I emigrated to USA, I was surprised to have to pay water charges, as I was accustomed to getting this for free in Ireland. The first leak I had the water authority were able to notify me by the meter reading that I was wasting water and running up my bill. It's the responsible thing for Ireland to do, to invest in water, to meter it. There's lot of things worthy of protest but metering and investing in our water should not be one. Total political opportunism by those parties telling people not to pay.

I average about $80 a month in water charges,  $250 a month in electricity,  $300 a month in health care,  $4000 a year in property taxes and $3000 a year in house insurance.  Taxes are lower but the government will get their share no matter where you live.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 08:02:27 PM by FL/MAYO »

Maguire01

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Re: Water Charges. How much?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2014, 08:03:38 PM »
When I emigrated to USA, I was surprised to have to pay water charges, as I was accustomed to getting this for free in Ireland. The first leak I had the water authority were able to notify me by the meter reading that I was wasting water and running up my bill. It's the responsible thing for Ireland to do, to invest in water, to meter it. There's lot of things worthy of protest but metering and investing in our water should not be one. Total political opportunism by those parties telling people not to pay.

I average about $80 a month in water charges,  $250 a month in electricity,  $300 a month in health care,  $4000 a year in property taxes and $3000 a year in house insurance.  Taxes are lower but the government will get their share no matter where you live.
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FL/MAYO

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Re: Water Charges. How much?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2014, 09:17:07 PM »
When I emigrated to USA, I was surprised to have to pay water charges, as I was accustomed to getting this for free in Ireland. The first leak I had the water authority were able to notify me by the meter reading that I was wasting water and running up my bill. It's the responsible thing for Ireland to do, to invest in water, to meter it. There's lot of things worthy of protest but metering and investing in our water should not be one. Total political opportunism by those parties telling people not to pay.

I average about $80 a month in water charges,  $250 a month in electricity,  $300 a month in health care,  $4000 a year in property taxes and $3000 a year in house insurance.  Taxes are lower but the government will get their share no matter where you live.
Are you living in the White House?  :o

The cost of insurance in Florida is insane due to hurricanes. What would be the average cost of utilities in Ireland these days?