Messages

As alluded to earlier, we have shipped heavy beatings with one and even two sweepers in the past.

Our wing forwards and midfielders need to drop deeper, and work-rate/tackling from wing forwards and midfield need to be upped massively. This would help stop our half backs being dragged those crucial 20/30 metres up he field. Also, on the Limerick puck outs our half backs were chasing Limerick lads (often on dummy runs) across and around the field. If the midfield positioning was a bit better and half forwards were back a bit to congest the space, the half back line could hold their positions on opposition puck outs.

We seem to be way too nice too, hardly got a shoulder on to a Limerick runner all game. Not enough defenders that could be described as uncompromising.   Leigh Bergin is a nice hurler but not strong enough in the air or aggressive enough in the tackle for an inter count 3 or 6, at least not yet. Paddy Purcell for me is not a natural defender either, Dwayne Palmer often plays as forward with his club, a lovely hurler and like Paddy good in the sweeper role. Sean Downey another light young lad starting out. It would be easier for the likes of Sean Downey and Leigh Bergin to learn the ropes if players like Tom Delaney, Darren Maher, Gearoid Burke were around, but we have who we have I suppose. Hopefully Mathew will be back soon.

I did find a bit strange that manager and selectors were not down on the sideline again, especially when we were in such trouble. I understand the logic that it gives a better view, but at the same time, nothing seemed to be getting down to address way space was opening up in front of our full back line.

On a positive note, most of forwards did pretty well, Willie Dunphy had one of his best matches for Laois and Aaron Dunphy showed some sweet striking.

Obviously none of ye saw the performance which Dwayne Palmer put in for IT Carlow on John McGrath from Tipp. Have Offaly a forward of that quality inside. I doubt it very much

Palmer is fine against light fast corner forwards. Of all the full back line he is the least of our worries. Full back has been a problem since Brian Campion retired and Darren Maher's absence is a big blow.

He has pace, a nice touch and will sweep up behind his corner men alright but I don't think young Bergin has the all-round game suited to full back, at least not yet.

Think they have a few from ballypickas on it which is suprising considering delaney (who i felt was excellent tonight) and a few others were poached off them by abbeyleix. I was probably a bit harsh earlier on but it really was a game that should of been won by by 10-15 points especially after cranny got the goal. All thinggs going well we'll finish the job in the replay

You are right, you were harsh earlier, they are young lads doing their best.

"Delaney and a few others were poached off them by Abbeyleix" is a pretty one-eyed and exaggerated view at best.   

Where does the Gaels come from ? was Liam Delaney playin or is he still injured

It is Abbeyleix with 3 players from Ballypickas. Liam Delaney was playing.

Camross laid down a marker last night. They were hungry, physical and made sure second half against the wind was played on their terms. Clough Ballacolla played some nice hurling in first half against the wind, but couldn't get any traction in the face of Camross determination and aggression in the second half. Brendan McEvoy and Tom Delaney are being missed. Shane Hanlon aslo didn't play - is he injured ?

Camross have a strong panel too, able to bring in the likes of Dean Delaney and Mattie Collier and are probably favourites now. Clough Ballacolla have the talent to recover and are possibly still the best bet to pip Camross, question is have they hunger to go for it again.

without digging too deep

1999 laois senior hurling championship

2 groups of 4....
group a
castletown, rathdowney, clonad, camross

rnd 1
castletown drew with camross, rathdowney bt clonad,

rnd 2
castletown bt clonad,  rathdowney bt camross

rnd 3
castletown bt rathdowney, camross bt clonad

if memory serves, the last game was a dead rubber, and it was one of the few(if only) times that camross were eliminated at group stage.
the harps and portlaoise came out of the other group.


so yes, there you have proof that there did exist 2 groups of 4 as a format in the laois senior hurling championship.

I don't buy the rubbish about extending the senior to ten teams to help mountrath, colt etc.....if they are not good enough and not going to be competitive, all you will be doing is dragging others down to their level. the onus should be on these clubs to improve and strife to join the elite on merit and be competitive.

I admire what abbeyleix have done in hurling now and of late, great work and time being invested in the sport in the town. however I find your attitude on the senior hurling format a little defeatist....what you want for abbeyleix, is to increase the number of senior teams to 10, so that your club will always be safe from relegation and each year have at least one handy game, and perhaps one year get a pudding of a group draw with as many as 3 of the makeweights!.....never mind, if you happen to lose your next 2 games, you will have plenty of handy games at senior b next year, if easy winnable games is the endgoal.

On your last two paragraphs;

You might disagree with someone else's opinion, that doesn't make it rubbish.

Neither do you know what I want for my own club. I have said in earlier posts that the argument for 10 teams was lost for the moment and also that my views on the format of the Laois SHC are not based ensuring "handy games" for my own club.  I don't know why, but for some reason you choose to ignore this and post the above again.

we 100% did have the system of 2 groups of 4 in the past, in the 90s....did not work in that era.

I don't remember there just being 8 teams in senior during the 90's . Maybe groups of 4 but wiith 12 teams? fair enough if it was 8 back then, but it doesn't mean it wouldn't work now, especially if every team was either in a relegation or championship semi final and two R1 winners and losers play each other in R 2. That would mean r3 could not feature teams who have won or lost both games.

Borris and Ballinakill played out a lack lustre affair tonight and loser would have still been in Championship. Wasn't a dead rubber, but not far off.

Castletown will walk the so called senior b this year and Harps, Abbeyleix or Portlaoise will go back and walk it next year.  Ballyfin, Mountrath, Colt, not to mention Rosenallis And Clonad are going backwards at rate of knots . A ten team senior championship would give those teams at that level something to strive for. If they go back down after a few beatings, they are back in the mix again, but with a years senior experience

home boys home
you are in a minority of one, when it comes to wanting to ditch the current system and revert to two groups of 4.....over the years no matter what you done in terms of game order, there were always dead rubbers and this resulted in one team gaining and another losing due to the group format and it failed to ignite the interest of spectators.

there may only be room for 8 teams under the current system, but that is the right number as it is ultra competitive. to extend to 10 or 12, all you are doing is bringing in non competitive teams that will be cannon fodder.

I note, you do refer to "luck of  the draw" being a factor in the current format, and I suspect that you may be from abbeyleix, because they seem to have been dealt the weakest hand "draw wise"............an open draw is a fair lottery system, sometimes it favours you, other times not. In most people's eyes Abbeyleix are about seed number 6, they should be embracing the challenge of moving up the ratings by beating a higher seed, rather than complaining about the "bad draws".

this weekend
I think B/K  will just have a little too much for ballinakill,

C/Ballacolla v Camross, comes down to the CB attitude...if they are not 100% tuned in, then Camross may shade  it.

I think Rathdowney/E v abbeyleix will be entertaining, with R/E pulling away in the final quarter.

Portlaoise v Harps. most are making this a win for Portlaoise, I will swing the other way.....P/L did not impress me at the Senior B ranks last year, and I felt they were flattered by C/B, who looked to be going through the motions. The Harps were awful v Ballinakill, but in 2015 they pulled a massive performance  out of no where to hammer castletown. I think the Harps have the better players and if you are into odds, the 5/2 about them beating Portlaoise is very tempting. This Portlaoise side struggles big time when it comes to scoring goals, and such teams in hurling are always vulnerable.

Don't mind being in a minority, but don't use arguments I never made to reason against me !

Tow groups of 4 with matches in right order greatly reduces chance of dead rubbers. I never suggested increasing it to 10 or 12. (As it happens, I would actually prefer 10 teams but accept that argument is lost for now). We never had a group system with just 2 x 4 teams.

Yes I am from Abbeyleix. I was not "complaining about bad draws", just pointing out the luck/anomaly element. In case it escaped your attention I also mentioned R/E last year and how their reward for beating Abbeyleix in R1 was a much tougher subsequent draw than Abbeyleix's.

As you say, it is a lottery system.

Also, dead rubbers in a two groups of 4 system could be avoided by pairing Round 1 winners together and Round 1 losers together for Round 2.

Seems I am in the minority on this, but I just feel too much depends on the luck of the draw for me under the current system.  Maybe that adds to the excitement for some.

For e.g. I may be wrong, but last year R/E beat Abbeyleix in R1 and were subsequently knocked out after being drawn against CloughBallacolla and Borris Kilcotton I think.  Abbeyleix went back to play Casteltown in losers group and were drawn against Ballinakill in QF. So you could argue R/E would have been better off losing to Abbeyleix because of the luck of the draw.

Also, for two teams you are looking at two matches in a fortnight and out of the Championship after 6-8 months preparation.

Another e.g., if C/B were drawn against R/E and Camross v B/K the losers of these two matches could be playing each other to avoid relegation final.

As it is I'm not sure the big guns are overly concerned with R1 if draw in March is 'kind' with some players going abroad and coming back for R2.

With two groups of 4 and two sets of semi finals the only real dead rubber would arise if two teams arrived into last match both having lost or won both matches.

It's not a perfect system but two groups of 4 with two separate sets of semi finals would generate just as much
excitement, would give most teams an extra match and remove some of the luck element.

The current system is better than before I would agree, and is not the biggest problem we have in Laois hurling.I would be more worried about the standard in the Senior B which apart from Castletown is not good. Also, the hurling in Divsion 1 B league this year was more like Junior hurling than Division 1 B or Senior B.

B/K V Ballinakill

BB/K should come through this, especially if Joe Campion and Patrick Whelan are back ?  Ballinakill have a strong, experienced half back line and a good pairing in midfield too. Eamon Jackman showed some good form against The Harps and if he can  repeat that and Cha cuts loose then they might be in business. Conor Dunne did a good job man marking Cha the last day but he sacrificed his own game totally in doing so and never got a puck himself, which is not how you want your centre back hurling.

B/K should return Neil Foyle to the forwards, they missed his target man qualities against Abbeyleix. If there is to be an upset this round this match could be it, but as has been said B/K have the strength in depth that Ballinakill don't and should get through by 3-4 points.

Portlaoise V Harps

Portlaoise showed great determination against Clough Ballacolla, which couldn't be said for The Harps who seemed to accept their lot a bit too easily against Ballinakill. However Harps have put Ballinakill and Castletown down in recent years and will surely put up a better fight this weekend to avoid another relegation final. Portlaoise should have enough to win by 4-5 points.

Abbeyleix v Rathdowney Errill

Didn't see R/E play Camross but they will be favourites here. Abbeyleix like Ballinakill don't seem to have the panel depth yet and have 2 or 3 forwards who blow hot and cold. If these 2/3 lads catch fire they have a chance with Mark Kavanagh and Liam O'Connell big losses for R/E. Questions about Abbeyleix's belief against the 'big 4' too after last year when they lost from a winning position against R/E (as they did against B/K in first round).  R/E to win by 6.

Clough Ballacolla v Camross

I thought Clough Ballacolla lookd very slick at times V Portlaoise and always looked like they could get the scores when they needed them. A bit casual though and almost got caught at the end by a determined Portlaoise. For me C/B are the team to beat from what I saw in first round even though they were not at their best. Didn't see Camross, but wouldn't be surprised if these two wound up in the final.

On another note, I am not a fan of the current format.  With 8 teams, two groups of 4 would give everyone 3 matches before knockout. Top two teams in each group into semi finals, bottom two in each group into relegation semi finals should ensure no dead rubbers.  Also, if playing in O'Moore park two matches needed on same day to get a bit of a crowd into the place
 

Clonad/Park Ratheniska 5.8 - 5.10 Portlaoise
I'm sure it left a sour taste in the mouths of a lot in Clonad or particularly Ratheniska, a former PR player was their main scorer.

Don't know if one new player can explain the difference between League and Championship results for Portlaoise U14 hurlers. They must not have had a full squad for League. According to Laois GAA website they lost  to Clonad by 6-17 to 0-3 in the League and then beat them by two points as above a few weeks later in Championship.

Also according to the website, they lost to Clough Ballacolla by 0-13 to 0-04 in League and then beat them by 14-10 (yes 14 goals !) to 3-06 in first round of Championship. Maybe the 14 goals is a mistake on the website, but even allowing for League vs Championship, the difference in results is massive.

Leinster League is worse for the absence of Kilkenny and Wexford but these games could be crucial in preparing for Offaly.

Robbie Phelan from Clough/Ballacolla has not gone in this year; big loss to our forward line.

Is Stephan Phelan borris kilcotton minor this year ?  Haven't seen him in this year either.  Rumour Cillian McEvoy Full back out of Offaly match with a broken hand recently sustained in Challenge match with Clare. Very unlucky for the young lad after months of training. A big loss for the team too. Those 3 are lads we can't really afford to be without.  On the upside, we are in Leinster minor league final.

The worrying thing is that surely we would have targeted yesterday as a must-win match, with an equally vital clash with Offaly following next week. Training 5 times a week in November, surely we were targeting two wins in these games.

So I don't think we took Kerry for granted. Kerry were better organised, hungrier and hurled with more confidence.

First thing we need to do is pick players in their best positions. Matthew Whelan centre back, Paddy Purcell midfield and Neil Foyle at centre or full forward for a start. We have lost most of our best defenders to retirement in the last 12 months and that is enough upheaval without making changes we don't need to make.   

In fairness then it's just Paul O'Shea from Abbeyleix as Carroll is from Kilkenny. Best of luck to them. Hopefully they get the very best out of the minors. Is Carroll still managing Abbeyleix seniors now that he is coaching the Laois minors or has Abbeyleix got a new manager?

Carroll is not managing Abbeyleix seniors this year. From what I know he is a good 'hands on' type of coach, hopefully he can bring some of the Kilkenny mentality to our minors. 

Abbeyleix looking for a new manager for 2016.