The IRISH RUGBY thread

Started by Donnellys Hollow, October 27, 2009, 05:26:16 PM

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Insane Bolt

Rugby has evolved, and it's mainly the northern hemisphere teams trying to catch up with the southern hemisphere teams. They have closed the gap considerably, but I think that Irish teams have always been too conservative in their play. Wales, Scotland always seem to have a few tricks up their sleeve....quick line outs, tap penalties etc.....Ireland....box kick😩. For me Murray is too ponderous....move the effing ball quick....Ireland have great backs. Maybe all this is part of Joe's cunning plan.....but I would rather lose playing an expansive game than win 9-6 on kicks.

johnnycool

Quote from: Insane Bolt on February 11, 2019, 09:39:21 AM
Rugby has evolved, and it's mainly the northern hemisphere teams trying to catch up with the southern hemisphere teams. They have closed the gap considerably, but I think that Irish teams have always been too conservative in their play. Wales, Scotland always seem to have a few tricks up their sleeve....quick line outs, tap penalties etc.....Ireland....box kick😩. For me Murray is too ponderous....move the effing ball quick....Ireland have great backs. Maybe all this is part of Joe's cunning plan.....but I would rather lose playing an expansive game than win 9-6 on kicks.

A big good 'un is always better than a small good 'un...

Rugby when played well is a fine sport (so is gaelic football) but when you've a hoard of a backroom team with stats coming out their arses players are more or less playing to a set pattern with the off the cuff stuff few and far between.

I think Ireland are over coached but I do think we don't have the real flair players who can play with their heads up and make decisions and execute in the heat of action. Sexton is a good enough outhalf and is a brave soul but he's not going to engineer something out of nothing and at the same time Schmitt seems to be that type of manager not to allow it anyway. Murray has lost his zip and now you don't go into a blind panic when he is replaced.

Ireland are punching above their weight at the minute but sadly still a bit off claiming a World Cup. Hope I'm wrong though.

Anyone else think that England have blocking the kick chasers down to a fine art?

France are a shambles of a team but some fine individual talent there.



oakleaflad

Quote from: johnnycool on February 11, 2019, 10:26:34 AM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on February 11, 2019, 09:39:21 AM
Rugby has evolved, and it's mainly the northern hemisphere teams trying to catch up with the southern hemisphere teams. They have closed the gap considerably, but I think that Irish teams have always been too conservative in their play. Wales, Scotland always seem to have a few tricks up their sleeve....quick line outs, tap penalties etc.....Ireland....box kick😩. For me Murray is too ponderous....move the effing ball quick....Ireland have great backs. Maybe all this is part of Joe's cunning plan.....but I would rather lose playing an expansive game than win 9-6 on kicks.

A big good 'un is always better than a small good 'un...

Rugby when played well is a fine sport (so is gaelic football) but when you've a hoard of a backroom team with stats coming out their arses players are more or less playing to a set pattern with the off the cuff stuff few and far between.

I think Ireland are over coached but I do think we don't have the real flair players who can play with their heads up and make decisions and execute in the heat of action. Sexton is a good enough outhalf and is a brave soul but he's not going to engineer something out of nothing and at the same time Schmitt seems to be that type of manager not to allow it anyway. Murray has lost his zip and now you don't go into a blind panic when he is replaced.

Ireland are punching above their weight at the minute but sadly still a bit off claiming a World Cup. Hope I'm wrong though.

Anyone else think that England have blocking the kick chasers down to a fine art?

France are a shambles of a team but some fine individual talent there.
Really noticed this against France. As soon as they knew the box kick was coming men were filtering back to get in the way and stop there being any sort of a decent kick chase.

Insane Bolt

I've always admired the Welsh because they play an open expansive game no matter what team lines out. England are back on track....they have a seriously strong squad, and have sidelined Hartley, Cole and Brown quietly. Still think their discipline will be their downfall....in particular Itoje and Farrell.....although captaincy seems to have settled him. Ireland have either SA or All Blacks to look forward to in Japan.....hope they can get back to where they were last season.
If there was a transfer market I would break the bank for Barrett and McKenzie.

GetOverTheBar

Quote from: Insane Bolt on February 11, 2019, 10:51:08 AM
I've always admired the Welsh because they play an open expansive game no matter what team lines out. England are back on track....they have a seriously strong squad, and have sidelined Hartley, Cole and Brown quietly. Still think their discipline will be their downfall....in particular Itoje and Farrell.....although captaincy seems to have settled him. Ireland have either SA or All Blacks to look forward to in Japan.....hope they can get back to where they were last season.
If there was a transfer market I would break the bank for Barrett and McKenzie.

Send Aki back. Swap deal? ;D

seafoid

Quote from: thewobbler on February 11, 2019, 09:17:10 AM
After a couple of years of gradually losing interest, I'm now all but given up on rugby.

I fell for the game big time 20 years ago. Loved the constant strategic challenge of territory or possession. I loved the fact that the perfect formation seemed to consist of small fat man, tall ungainly men, a handful of testosterone-fuelled athletic freaks, and a couple of less-brave sorts out wide. The respect for referees was astonishing. That men could batter lumps out of each other for an hour and a half, then walk off arm-in-arm, did the heart good. And of course the 4 green fields all on show together at international level.

But if truth be told, it bores me senseless now. It is rugby league of 2 years ago, except with aimless box kicks thrown in at random intervals. It's no longer a game of skill or incision. It's just a series of over-sized, drug-fuelled robots playing a game of patience, waiting for a mistake to happen on the other side, while ensuring you make none yourself.

As a game I cannot see how it can fix itself either. They'll just keep getting bigger and stronger, and everyone will continue to pretend that it's entirely normal for Celtic nations to produce sons of  6' 4", 18 stone, finely tuned athletes.

I do fear that within 20 years, there will be a trend of pro rugby players dying in their early fifties from massive heart failure and brain haemorrhages. It's awful that we will have to wait for this to happen before the game can go back to being run.

Great post, Wobbler

Professionalism has changed the game for the worse.
English Injury stats are brutal

https://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Document/General/General/01/32/91/95/InjurySurveillanceReport2016-17_English.pdf

"The average severity of match injuries (the time taken to return to play) for the 2016-17 season was
32 days. This is the first time this figure has risen above the expected upper limit of season to season
variation. This is largely driven by the increase in injuries in the three highest severity groupings (8-
28 days, 28-84 days and >84 days absence).

• For the first time hamstring injuries and concussion feature in the top three injuries resulting in more than
84 days absence. The reasons for this change in the severity profile for hamstring injury severity profile
are unclear. The number of concussions requiring more than 3 months absence has also increased.
This likely reflects a trend to more conservative management of players who have sustained two or
more concussions in a 12-month period. "


Players get paid salaries to expose themselves week in week out to what are gladiatorial risks
Ireland is maybe less bad because the schedules are managed by the IRFU but French and English players are expected to
perform through the hits and collisions.

Nobody knows what long term damage players have already sustained



"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

dec

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/one-of-the-hardest-decisions-ive-ever-had-to-make-sean-obrien-confirms-london-irish-switch-37804687.html

London Irish have officially confirmed that Sean O'Brien will join the club from Leinster after the 2019 World Cup. The flanker will join the Premiership side in December 2019, bringing to an end his time with Leinster and Ireland. The 31-year-old, who turns 32 on Thursday, has played for his home province 122 times as well as winning 54 Ireland caps. He has signed a three-season deal with London Irish, where he will link up with Director of Rugby Declan Kidney and head coach Les Kiss, who previously coached O'Brien with the Ireland team.

Speaking about the move, O'Brien stressed that it wasn't an easy choice to end his career in Ireland. "This is one of the hardest decisions that I have ever had to make," O'Brien said. "I have played all my rugby in Ireland. "With Tullow, with Leinster and with Ireland and to move from the place I call home and that I love so much, was not easy. "That being said, I feel that the time has come to explore other opportunities, to challenge myself at a new environment, in a new city, with a new club and against different players and teams on a weekly basis. London Irish and what they are about is a club that I feel I can grow with and also contribute to and I feel that they have a set up and an ethos that will make me feel at home...

Rudi

Probably should put this in the wtf thread. The Independent have Bundee Aki, Connor Murray & Jacob Stockdale (fair enough) on the 6 nations team of the week. Akis passing is brutal & Connor Murray has to be up there with the worst kickers in the game at the moment.

screenexile

Quote from: Rudi on February 12, 2019, 10:58:57 AM
Probably should put this in the wtf thread. The Independent have Bundee Aki, Connor Murray & Jacob Stockdale (fair enough) on the 6 nations team of the week. Akis passing is brutal & Connor Murray has to be up there with the worst kickers in the game at the moment.

In fairness his kicking game has been the best in the world until this season so I wouldn't be giving him too much stick. Ben Youngs played well though so would probably feel a but hard done by.

AZOffaly

Conor Murray's form has been so-so since he came back from injury. He was poor against Exeter in the HEC as well. However he is still one of the best 9s in the world, and I think we need to calm down a bit.

Crete Boom

Quote from: Rudi on February 12, 2019, 10:58:57 AM
Probably should put this in the wtf thread. The Independent have Bundee Aki, Connor Murray & Jacob Stockdale (fair enough) on the 6 nations team of the week. Akis passing is brutal & Connor Murray has to be up there with the worst kickers in the game at the moment.

Listening a bit too much to Shag Horgan and Matty Wullliams there mate!! ;)

The problem with Bundee in the England game especially was he was in at first receiver too much when he is best used as a second or third option from rucks where he can use his strength to tie in defenders at the gain line or take them out with a quick offload or break!!

The problem against Scotland & England with the centers and back three was the passing was slightly to the back shoulder rather than out in front and this was confounded with slow ruck ball and slow service from Murray! It's very unusual for any of Joe's teams to have inaccurate passing and slow ruck ball so I would be confident this will be rectified sooner rather than later!!

screenexile

Quote from: Crete Boom on February 12, 2019, 11:28:24 AM
Quote from: Rudi on February 12, 2019, 10:58:57 AM
Probably should put this in the wtf thread. The Independent have Bundee Aki, Connor Murray & Jacob Stockdale (fair enough) on the 6 nations team of the week. Akis passing is brutal & Connor Murray has to be up there with the worst kickers in the game at the moment.

Listening a bit too much to Shag Horgan and Matty Wullliams there mate!! ;)

The problem with Bundee in the England game especially was he was in at first receiver too much when he is best used as a second or third option from rucks where he can use his strength to tie in defenders at the gain line or take them out with a quick offload or break!!

The problem against Scotland & England with the centers and back three was the passing was slightly to the back shoulder rather than out in front and this was confounded with slow ruck ball and slow service from Murray! It's very unusual for any of Joe's teams to have inaccurate passing and slow ruck ball so I would be confident this will be rectified sooner rather than later!!

Yeah also our kick chase has been fairly non existent for 2 games there which is very unlike Ireland!!

Dinny Breen

Our rucking has been poor, which means Murray is under the type of pressure that he's just not use to. This is compounded by his rustiness and his accuracy has suffered. Still one of the best 9s in World Rugby.

Bundee Aki has never been noted for his passing, he's not there to pass and if does find himself in the 1st receiver role it's generally because something has gone wrong in the first 3/4 phases - that's a typical pattern for JS, he won't plan for more than that as the variables will just become unmanageable.

He would never admit it but Ireland look they are holding back, apart from Stockdale's try there has been a distinct lack of innovation. Almost like he's keeping his powder dry...
#newbridgeornowhere

seafoid

Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 12, 2019, 11:43:22 AM
Our rucking has been poor, which means Murray is under the type of pressure that he's just not use to. This is compounded by his rustiness and his accuracy has suffered. Still one of the best 9s in World Rugby.

Bundee Aki has never been noted for his passing, he's not there to pass and if does find himself in the 1st receiver role it's generally because something has gone wrong in the first 3/4 phases - that's a typical pattern for JS, he won't plan for more than that as the variables will just become unmanageable.

He would never admit it but Ireland look they are holding back, apart from Stockdale's try there has been a distinct lack of innovation. Almost like he's keeping his powder dry...
I think Joe Schmidt and Jim Gavin may be operating the same playbook
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

screenexile

Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 12, 2019, 11:43:22 AM
Our rucking has been poor, which means Murray is under the type of pressure that he's just not use to. This is compounded by his rustiness and his accuracy has suffered. Still one of the best 9s in World Rugby.

Bundee Aki has never been noted for his passing, he's not there to pass and if does find himself in the 1st receiver role it's generally because something has gone wrong in the first 3/4 phases - that's a typical pattern for JS, he won't plan for more than that as the variables will just become unmanageable.

He would never admit it but Ireland look they are holding back, apart from Stockdale's try there has been a distinct lack of innovation. Almost like he's keeping his powder dry...

Is it that Ireland are being poor in the ruck or other teams are improving in this area. It definitely seems strange that things that were previously huge strengths are now weaknesses particularly when you know how high performing the group is from coaching to players and the players have been producing the goods for their provinces in the HEC... it does seem to suggest that they want to peak at the right time which is certainly not now