The Palestine thread

[glens abu]

In fairness glens, I've had my run ins with GHD's views on the conflict over there (before this latest round of atrocities) but I don't think you can accuse him of being a hurler on the ditch with this one. The man drove a truck full of humanitarian aid to Gaza, and is always at these demos etc.

Wouldn't dream of accusing him on that Offaly as have seen at first hand the great work he does,but he seems to think others and especially Shinners don't do anything only support Israel and nothing could be further from the truth as even as we speak I am heading to Conway Mill to help load a container for Gaza.Just because he does good work for Palestine doesn't mean he should get a free run with his propaganda

[AZOffaly]

Absolutely not, but you said something like 'if they put as much effort into helping Gaza as criticising Sinn Féin'.

[glens abu]

Absolutely not, but you said something like 'if they put as much effort into helping Gaza as criticising Sinn Féin'.

I was talking about the amount of people who are anti SF using what is happening in Gaza to try and bash the Shinners instead of putting their differences aside for now and putting all  that effort into protesting together and helping together.Unfortunately there are some who can't do that.

[give her dixie]

Glens, you somehow think that it is great to have the support of the Palestinian Ambassador and that it gives cover for Sinn Fein to meet whoever they want. Sinn Fein are pushing the USA agenda, with the support of their paid stooge in Dublin.

As for sending a container, well good luck as there isn't a hope in hell that it will get in. The last 2 containers that left here ended up having their contents dumped in the Sinani desert. Funny how it has taken Sinn Fein until now to organise sending some aid? They never sent a thing before in case they were accussed of donating to Hamas. Has Gerry or Martin been on the phone to Hamas in GAza? No, and don't count on it happening as they dont want  to offend their paymasters in the USA.

You can meet all the Palestinian Ambassadors you want, but the fact that Sinn Fein support Caterpillar negates any support they might claim to have for Palestine. Trust me, the Palestinians arn't stupid, and they have seen through Sinn Fein a long time ago, especially in Gaza where they treated it a a photo opportunity and an excuse to promote their youth wing.

The SDLP also licked that Israeli Ambassadors ass a few weeks ago, and they too are spineless when it comes to Gaza. Gaza to Sinn Fin is like the Garth Brooks concerts. They see mass appeal, and they are sucking up to it. I see it, and so do the Palestinians. As for joining together, wise up. Sinn Fein will not share a platform with any other group here in the north as they can't control the message. In Dungannon they have been embarrased as only 12 showed up to their rally that they held the same time as ours. Plus, they told ALL of their members to stay away last week as Yousef spoke claiming he was Hamas.

To prove my point, the only time you have come onto this thread in 4 weeks is to promote Sinn Fein. Its pathetic, and predictable. As I have said before, when its quiet and only the dedicated still fight for Palestine, Sinn Fein are sucking up to whatever Israeli Ambassador is in town, or running around the USA with the cap out looking for donations from Pro Israeli Politicans and business men. Now don't insult my intelligence again, as i'm too long in the tooth to buy into any bullsh1t you or Sinn Fein try to spin.

[Carmen Stateside]

GHD, why is it Sinn Fein you have a gripe with? do you air your concerns when you meet them and stand side by side with them at these Rally's? Just last week i seen a photograph from Carrickmore.  Take Sinn Fein out of it and you and the guy from Gaza would have been standing on your own.

[glens abu]

GHD, why is it Sinn Fein you have a gripe with? do you air your concerns when you meet them and stand side by side with them at these Rally's? Just last week i seen a photograph from Carrickmore.  Take Sinn Fein out of it and you and the guy from Gaza would have been standing on your own.

 

[fearglasmor]

Just listened to John Kerry on BBC World News defending Americas defence of Israels right to "defend" itself.
The world is no place for innocents.
But no surprise, ask Japan about the principle of proportionality.
We truly are capable of being a disgusting species.

I think the Hamas charter is calling for the obliteration of the state of Israel, and any other Jewish controlled state that would be created in its stead. (Not necessarily Jewish people although it's hard to see how an entire nation could be subsumed into a Muslim country without major issues).

I can't see this working. The only solution I can possibly see is the two state solution, along the lines of the UN 1967 charter, with the borders being policed by an international armed force to ensure Israel does not breach the borders or try to attack or settle Palestinian land again, and to also make sure the more hardline, obliterate Israel, crew don't try and do just that.

But the solution has to be parked for the moment, the immediate priority has to be to stop the Israeli slaughter of Palestinians, and I am disgusted with the international community. Politicians really are c***ts.

[dowling]

Just listened to John Kerry on BBC World News defending Americas defence of Israels right to "defend" itself.
The world is no place for innocents.
But no surprise, ask Japan about the principle of proportionality.
We truly are capable of being a disgusting species.

I think the Hamas charter is calling for the obliteration of the state of Israel, and any other Jewish controlled state that would be created in its stead. (Not necessarily Jewish people although it's hard to see how an entire nation could be subsumed into a Muslim country without major issues).

I can't see this working. The only solution I can possibly see is the two state solution, along the lines of the UN 1967 charter, with the borders being policed by an international armed force to ensure Israel does not breach the borders or try to attack or settle Palestinian land again, and to also make sure the more hardline, obliterate Israel, crew don't try and do just that.

But the solution has to be parked for the moment, the immediate priority has to be to stop the Israeli slaughter of Palestinians, and I am disgusted with the international community. Politicians really are c***ts.

Why do you 'think' what the charter is about? Surely in this day and age you could find something definite. Some facts that could either support your thinking or cause you to think something else.

[whitey]

Dowling......direct quotes from the Hamas Charter were posted up here yesterdAy and the pro Hamas folks some how felt the "obliteration" of Israel did not equate to the "obliteration" of the Jews within Israel, even though another direct quote from the charter mandated the establishment of a Muslim Caliphate with Sharia law

[haveaharp]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/40000-iraqis-stranded-mountain-isis-death-threat

If it isn't already this could be a massive humanitarian tragedy. A shit storm has been created in the middle east and i don't think anyone can stop it.

[LeoMc]

Dowling......direct quotes from the Hamas Charter were posted up here yesterdAy and the pro Hamas folks some how felt the "obliteration" of Israel did not equate to the "obliteration" of the Jews within Israel, even though another direct quote from the charter mandated the establishment of a Muslim Caliphate with Sharia law

An alternative translation is the dissolution of Israel.
The eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel.

It also states "Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions—Islam, Christianity and Judaism—to coexist in peace and quiet with each other"

The Hamas charter was "drawn up by a Hamas-linked imam some 25 years ago but has never been adopted since Hamas was elected as the Palestinian government in 2006". In their legistlative program they stated "The question of recognizing Israel is not the jurisdiction of one faction, nor the government, but a decision for the Palestinian people." and describe the charter as "a piece of history and no longer relevant".

[AZOffaly]

Just listened to John Kerry on BBC World News defending Americas defence of Israels right to "defend" itself.
The world is no place for innocents.
But no surprise, ask Japan about the principle of proportionality.
We truly are capable of being a disgusting species.

I think the Hamas charter is calling for the obliteration of the state of Israel, and any other Jewish controlled state that would be created in its stead. (Not necessarily Jewish people although it's hard to see how an entire nation could be subsumed into a Muslim country without major issues).

I can't see this working. The only solution I can possibly see is the two state solution, along the lines of the UN 1967 charter, with the borders being policed by an international armed force to ensure Israel does not breach the borders or try to attack or settle Palestinian land again, and to also make sure the more hardline, obliterate Israel, crew don't try and do just that.

But the solution has to be parked for the moment, the immediate priority has to be to stop the Israeli slaughter of Palestinians, and I am disgusted with the international community. Politicians really are c***ts.

Why do you 'think' what the charter is about? Surely in this day and age you could find something definite. Some facts that could either support your thinking or cause you to think something else.

I posted quotes from the charter earlier on. It is clear in its call for the obliteration of Israel. My 'thinking' is that it would also obliterate any other jewish state set up in place of Israel. That's just my opinion though.

Hope that's clear enough for you.

[johnneycool]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/40000-iraqis-stranded-mountain-isis-death-threat

If it isn't already this could be a massive humanitarian tragedy. A shit storm has been created in the middle east and i don't think anyone can stop it.

God, Allah,
the middle east really is a hornets nest;

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/04/-sp-middle-east-politics-2014-egypt-syria-palestine-iraq-gaza

I think it was last week on newsnight they had a discussion with various people/scholars etc from middle eastern countries about the advent of Isis and all the other conflicts would play out. There was more or less agreement that there'd be new borders, caliphates etc, etc, but two, one Eqyptian woman and an Al Jazera correspondent in Qatar both felt that the current unrest would end with the 'common enemy' of Israel being attacked by an unified Muslim force well armed....

This will only get worse before it gets better...

[dowling]

So it's as simplistic as that AZ and Whitey. People put selective quotes on here referring to a charter and in particular one aspect of it with out any great context and that's what judgements are based on? Have there not been people on here quoting Israeli leaders making similar type statements? When you look at the reality there is indeed one state in danger of  obliteration but it'snot Israel. I'm really not trying to get into a row here but where else do people here get their information to make their judgements on Gaza? It can't all be down to quotes from the charter posted here.

[haveaharp]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/40000-iraqis-stranded-mountain-isis-death-threat

If it isn't already this could be a massive humanitarian tragedy. A shit storm has been created in the middle east and i don't think anyone can stop it.

God, Allah,
the middle east really is a hornets nest;

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/04/-sp-middle-east-politics-2014-egypt-syria-palestine-iraq-gaza

I think it was last week on newsnight they had a discussion with various people/scholars etc from middle eastern countries about the advent of Isis and all the other conflicts would play out. There was more or less agreement that there'd be new borders, caliphates etc, etc, but two, one Eqyptian woman and an Al Jazera correspondent in Qatar both felt that the current unrest would end with the 'common enemy' of Israel being attacked by an unified Muslim force well armed....

This will only get worse before it gets better...

Saw the same show and the depressing conclusion was that ww3 was not a fanciful notion.