The Palestine thread

[macdanger2]

Unbelievable stuff, the Israeli govt and those who support them disgrace the name of days decent Jewish people all over the world

[LeoMc]

Unbelievable stuff, the Israeli govt and those who support them disgrace the name of days decent Jewish people all over the world

+1
There are many Jews and Israeli Jews (unfortunately not enough) who are disgusted with the Israeli governments actions and aims.

[moysider]

Unbelievable stuff, the Israeli govt and those who support them disgrace the name of days decent Jewish people all over the world

+1
There are many Jews and Israeli Jews (unfortunately not enough) who are disgusted with the Israeli governments actions and aims.

Just watching Senator Ted Cruz from Texas there on CNN.

On about the 'unshakable bond' between Israel and the US. Very critical of Obama for maybe getting flights into Israel banned and certainly being 'hostile' towards Israel during his administration.

There s no discussion about schools being bombed or kids being killed. The American media also seem to be looking to use this as an excuse to give Obama a kicking.

It seems to me that Israel can act with impunity because they know they have huge backing. And it is moral backing as well. The West sees these civilian deaths as being just unfortunate but sees the campaign as being perfectly justifiable.

On the ground now it looks like Hamas will/should go for broke. There s no future anyway for Gaza except more of the same. People blame Hamas but after this latest Israeli squeeze a more extreme version of Hamas will emerge - maybe under another name.  Will the West stand by and watch Israel raze the Palestinians from the face of the earth? I think the US would anyway from what I ve seen area. AFAIC the US has as much blood on their hands as the Israelis here.

[Mike Sheehy]

GHD....I appreciate that we have been able to conduct a civil dialogue and challenge each others views in an adult manner.

This whole tragedy is spinning out of control and unfortunately the civilians are caught in the middle

The advent of social media is bringing the horror of what is unfolding into everyones lives in a way that would have been unimaginable a decade ago

All our opinions are formed by our own life experiences.....yours have obviously been quite different to mine. (I have close family members who serve in the US Military...my nephew is currently deployed in Afghanistan.  I was also at the Boston Marathon last year, and experienced first hand what happens when an ideology morphs and gets warped to become the antithesis of what is at its core.)

Lets hope that the horror that has been unfolding will be the tipping point that leads to some sort of a permanent solution.  There is wrongdoing on BOTH sides and both sides will HAVE to make accommodations to bring this to a conclusion

GHD will not acknowledge your different perspective never mind acknowledge your families situation.
I'll bet he won't even respond to you at all.

If I was you I wouldn't waste my time with this Nazi sympathiser.

[Mike Sheehy]

https://twitter.com/MJayRosenberg


MJ (Mike) Rosenberg @MJayRosenberg     ·   44m   

In DC and suburbs every synagogue posts this in front: "We Stand With Israel In Its Struggle For Peace & Security." SHAMEFUL LIE.


MJ (Mike) Rosenberg @MJayRosenberg     ·   47m   

Berkeley rabbi: I'm cool with all those dead kids and I won't apologize for it. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-menachem-creditor/im-done-apologizing-for-i_b_5606650.html ...

One sure sign of a bigot is someone who monitors (to the minute) the words of other bigots. They use it to bolster their own bigotry.

Step outside the echo chamber for a while Seafoid. There is more to life than hating jews.

[east down gael]

Mike,I know you and GHD have a long running debate/dispute on this topic,but can you not put it to one side at present and accept that what the Israelis are inflicting upon the gazan people at present is beyond contempt? As a military tactic bombing hundreds and thousands of innocent people to death is about as morally wrong as I can imagine.

[Sidney]

One sure sign of a bigot is someone who monitors (to the minute) the words of other bigots. They use it to bolster their own bigotry.

Step outside the echo chamber for a while Seafoid. There is more to life than hating jews.

That's a rather thinly veiled admission that you're a bigot, mate. I'd be in agreement with your self-assessment on the matter.

I'd also class you as an anti-semite, but then again I'd be using the term under its true meaning, rather than the bigoted, racist, exclusionary manner in which you and other users of the term use it.

Anti-semite.

[Sidney]

Will the West stand by and watch Israel raze the Palestinians from the face of the earth? I think the US would anyway from what I ve seen area. AFAIC the US has as much blood on their hands as the Israelis here.

Of course it would. It's what the West wants.

[Mike Sheehy]

Mike,I know you and GHD have a long running debate/dispute on this topic,but can you not put it to one side at present and accept that what the Israelis are inflicting upon the gazan people at present is beyond contempt? As a military tactic bombing hundreds and thousands of innocent people to death is about as morally wrong as I can imagine.

east Down Gael, What Israel is doing is beyond contempt, beyond the pale. There will, hopefully, be war criminal proceedings in the wake of this bombing of Gaza.

I have said long before this escalation that Israel is guilty of war crimes. Israel , as it exists today, should not exist. The fact that Israel exists is one of the greatest crimes against humanity in the 20th century because it has led to the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people from lands that they should , rightfully, claim as a majority.

BUT, the jews have a right to live in Palestine as well, even as a minority. The problem is that I don't think Hamas, seafoid or GHD will allow this. This is why  I think the two state solution is the only way forward. It is the only way that the Israelies can ensure their continued existence........and this is the crux of the matter. If you assume, as I do,  that the two state solution is the way forward then you must deal with how to ensure the security of BOTH sides in such an arrangement.

So, If you want to understand my deep, deep antipathy to GHD and Seafoid it is because I see them as the source of the original sin. It is their bigotry that has led to all this, yet, they are the loudest voices shouting against the state they forced into existence.

[Mike Sheehy]

One sure sign of a bigot is someone who monitors (to the minute) the words of other bigots. They use it to bolster their own bigotry.

Step outside the echo chamber for a while Seafoid. There is more to life than hating jews.

That's a rather thinly veiled admission that you're a bigot, mate. I'd be in agreement with your self-assessment on the matter.

I'd also class you as an anti-semite, but then again I'd be using the term under its true meaning, rather than the bigoted, racist, exclusionary manner in which you and other users of the term use it.

Anti-semite.

You just run along and concern yourself with who Suarez is biting these days or some such shite..

Let the adults debate the real issues....dipshit

[Sidney]

You just run along and concern yourself with who Suarez is biting these days or some such shite..

Let the adults debate the real issues....dipshit

I see you haven't engaged with my point there, but then that isn't much of a surprise.

Debate wouldn't be something I would have had you down as being strong on, and you're merely providing some extra confirmation bias for me with your last post.

If you'd like to actually debate on the conflict, as opposed to calling somebody a "dipshit", I'd be happy to do so, but I don't think would work out well for you, based on the rather limited understanding (and that's being generous) of anything to do with the conflict you've shown so far.

[whitey]

GHD....I appreciate that we have been able to conduct a civil dialogue and challenge each others views in an adult manner.

This whole tragedy is spinning out of control and unfortunately the civilians are caught in the middle

The advent of social media is bringing the horror of what is unfolding into everyones lives in a way that would have been unimaginable a decade ago

All our opinions are formed by our own life experiences.....yours have obviously been quite different to mine. (I have close family members who serve in the US Military...my nephew is currently deployed in Afghanistan. I was also at the Boston Marathon last year, and experienced first hand what happens when an ideology morphs and gets warped to become the antithesis of what is at its core.)

Lets hope that the horror that has been unfolding will be the tipping point that leads to some sort of a permanent solution.  There is wrongdoing on BOTH sides and both sides will HAVE to make accommodations to bring this to a conclusion

Would love to hear your experience Whitey, some very interesting conspiracy theories RE Boston Bomb backed up with some shocking CCTV evidence. I take them all with a pinch of Salt, however there's something now right about the two brothers, sneaky feeling they were set up in some way.

I don't buy into the conspiracy that the bombing was "staged" as some people would have you believe. What does raise my antenna is the incident in Florida a few weeks later when the FBI agents and MA state trooper were questioning an acquaintance of the bombers about an I solved double murder in Boston. Whatever went down, they ended up shooting the guy dead in the struggle that ensued. How 3 cops couldn't subdue one unarmed guy is highly suspect. (The older brother was also a suspect in that double murder).

Most of the terror convictions since 9/11 have been sting operations where undercover law enformement engage "sympathisers" and then set them up with dummy explosives or some such weapon. Would I be shocked if I found out that they had engaged the older brother and were monitoring him-absolutely not.

I also find it amazing that the Russian intelligence tipped the FBI off about him having attended a training camp but that no one followed up

That entire family are/were a bunch of fvckin scumbags. They came under false pretenses and were given asylum. Then they had everything handed to them at taxpayers expense, while they were busy shoplifting, drug dealing and passing counterfeit currency. The older brother then somehow gotarried to a girl from a wealthy family, had her convert to Islam, then sent her out to work 80 hours a week while he sat on his arse at home

[seafoid]

Jon Snow is in Gaza

http://blogs.channel4.com/snowblog/gazas-birthplace-saints-deathyard-angels/24276

Israel has proved one bitter truth. There is no such thing as a forensic or even a surgical attack. In this densely packed slither of land, fenced off from the rest of the world, it has proved impossible to 'kill a militant', without taking out a child, twenty children, or a grandmother, aunt, cousin, cousin's cousin.

Gazan society is a construct of huge families interwoven across the territory. It is hard to pin-p***k one man – kill him, and leave. You can obliterate his house, and he most probably he wont be there, but his seventeen relatives will be, and at the end of the attack they will be beyond life.

Finally, I have been stranded in Gaza City these three days. It was too dangerous to move far. Yet some of the worst of the carnage has been south of here, where no journalist has yet ventured.

But blessed Youtube, combined with short bursts of phone and electricity supply have enabled locals' pictures to reach the outside world and we journalists to verify and then weave them into our reports.

The world is witnessing what is happening in Gaza. There is bound to be judgement

[johnneycool]

GHD....I appreciate that we have been able to conduct a civil dialogue and challenge each others views in an adult manner.

This whole tragedy is spinning out of control and unfortunately the civilians are caught in the middle

The advent of social media is bringing the horror of what is unfolding into everyones lives in a way that would have been unimaginable a decade ago

All our opinions are formed by our own life experiences.....yours have obviously been quite different to mine. (I have close family members who serve in the US Military...my nephew is currently deployed in Afghanistan. I was also at the Boston Marathon last year, and experienced first hand what happens when an ideology morphs and gets warped to become the antithesis of what is at its core.)

Lets hope that the horror that has been unfolding will be the tipping point that leads to some sort of a permanent solution.  There is wrongdoing on BOTH sides and both sides will HAVE to make accommodations to bring this to a conclusion

Would love to hear your experience Whitey, some very interesting conspiracy theories RE Boston Bomb backed up with some shocking CCTV evidence. I take them all with a pinch of Salt, however there's something now right about the two brothers, sneaky feeling they were set up in some way.

I don't buy into the conspiracy that the bombing was "staged" as some people would have you believe. What does raise my antenna is the incident in Florida a few weeks later when the FBI agents and MA state trooper were questioning an acquaintance of the bombers about an I solved double murder in Boston. Whatever went down, they ended up shooting the guy dead in the struggle that ensued. How 3 cops couldn't subdue one unarmed guy is highly suspect. (The older brother was also a suspect in that double murder).

Most of the terror convictions since 9/11 have been sting operations where undercover law enformement engage "sympathisers" and then set them up with dummy explosives or some such weapon. Would I be shocked if I found out that they had engaged the older brother and were monitoring him-absolutely not.

I also find it amazing that the Russian intelligence tipped the FBI off about him having attended a training camp but that no one followed up

That entire family are/were a bunch of fvckin scumbags. They came under false pretenses and were given asylum. Then they had everything handed to them at taxpayers expense, while they were busy shoplifting, drug dealing and passing counterfeit currency. The older brother then somehow gotarried to a girl from a wealthy family, had her convert to Islam, then sent her out to work 80 hours a week while he sat on his arse at home

Whitey,
    how many of these jihadi's involved in the 9/11 attacks, Boston or whatever were Palestinian, Afghani or even Iraqi?

[seafoid]

There's a new gallup poll in the States. Only 25% of those aged 18-29 support what Israel is doing. Overall 42% say justified, 39% unjustified.
Israel is losing middle America.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/174110/americans-reaction-middle-east-situation-similar-past.aspx

The problem for israel is social media. They are being wiped out online with the images of their ruthlessness.