The Palestine thread

[whitey]

The reaction here in the states just blows me away. The people here are so instinctively pro-Israel you'd almost think the place was the 51st state. There's a right wing propaganda video going around that says it's a simple case of Hamas wanting peace-loving Israel dead, and that's all that's to it. Even people who I thought were sensible and informed have been posting it on social media and accepting it as fact.

That's because you're viewing events through an "Irish" lens rather than an "American" lens.  Here's how it works. On 9/11 America was attacked by Muslim terrorists......Hamas are also Muslim terrorists....so let's play a game of joint the dots and "associate" Hamas with Al Quada. 

As it pertains to the citizens of Gaza...well didn't they "elect " Hamas in 2006, so they, in essence elected Muslim terrorists to govern them, and was it not Muslim terrorists who attacked America on 9/11.....now you're able to associate the civilian population of Gaza with Al Quada. 

Then you flash up a video clip of Palestinians celebrating on the streets on 9/11 and there you have your smoking gun.....that the citizens of Gaza support terrorism, not just against Israel, but also against the US.

And if you happen to run into an American who has/had family members serving in Iraq/Afghanistan.....well now you're really going to hear an earful on top of everything I just told you

[Eamonnca1]

9/11 might have something to do with it, but I remember picking up a lot of pro-Israeli sentiment even before then. The pro-Israeli lobby has been very effective at building support here. The mantras of "Israel has a right to exist" and "Israel has a right to defend itself" have been repeated so often with the exact same wording that people just feel like it's the most natural thing to come out and say. They've stayed on message and it has gained traction.

[omaghjoe]

Support of Israel among the American public is actually irrelevant, same as gun control, and labour laws.

All of these political issues things are controlled by very powerful lobby groups who are very deeply entrenched in Washington politics. They use schmoozing, bribery, blackmail and political dealing to ensure that every politician in Washington supports their cause.

The NRA of course are famous, there is numerous pro business groups. The pro-Israeli group is called "APIAC". Set up in the 50s(?) by the Isreali government.

Politicians have to get elected of course and these lobby groups help make it is easy for them by using the media to coin catchphrases to support their cause:
In the case of gun control its "Well its our right to have a gun" or "If there is gun control it will mean that none of the good guys have guns"
In the case of labour laws its "Everyone should be able to work when they want"
In the case of Israel its " Israel has a right to defend itself" or "they are our allies"

Each of these catch phrases dont actually mean anything but if you keep saying it to oppose any argument to the contrary it strikes a chord with the ordinary man...meaningless but it does strike a chord with them and helps make the issue redundant.

So the Israel question is a non starter in America because they have a right to defend themselves.

[haranguerer]

There is no defence, its a war crime. The international community need to step up or otherwise anything goes. Obama has no business coming to this country again if he is going to hide away on this issue.

I havent heard much out of that eejit Kenny either, have you?

[seafoid]

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/war-crime-video-shows-sniper-killing-wounded-gaza-civilian

Up to 460000 views

Social media is getting a lot of media out that mainstream US media won't touch out of fear of being labeled anti semitic. 
Zionism depends on media management to keep Americans onside.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/303ecc4e-92d7-11e2-9593-00144feabdc0.html

The exercise underlined both the remarkable pull that Israel holds over American political life, and a neediness on the part of a country that expects not only to be supported financially and diplomatically, but also understood

[Eamonnca1]

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/war-crime-video-shows-sniper-killing-wounded-gaza-civilian

Up to 460000 views

Social media is getting a lot of media out that mainstream US media won't touch out of fear of being labeled anti semitic. 
Zionism depends on media management to keep Americans onside.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/303ecc4e-92d7-11e2-9593-00144feabdc0.html

The exercise underlined both the remarkable pull that Israel holds over American political life, and a neediness on the part of a country that expects not only to be supported financially and diplomatically, but also understood

That article's behind a paywall.  What's it saying?

[seafoid]

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/war-crime-video-shows-sniper-killing-wounded-gaza-civilian

Up to 460000 views

Social media is getting a lot of media out that mainstream US media won't touch out of fear of being labeled anti semitic. 
Zionism depends on media management to keep Americans onside.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/303ecc4e-92d7-11e2-9593-00144feabdc0.html

The exercise underlined both the remarkable pull that Israel holds over American political life, and a neediness on the part of a country that expects not only to be supported financially and diplomatically, but also understood

That article's behind a paywall.  What's it saying?

Really just the bit I highlighted. It was about Obama's visit to Israel a while back.
Israel depends on  international support. 

[Farrandeelin]

There is no defence, its a war crime. The international community need to step up or otherwise anything goes. Obama has no business coming to this country again if he is going to hide away on this issue.

I havent heard much out of that eejit Kenny either, have you?

I wonder what his thoughts on the matter are? That is if he has any.

[rossiewanderer]

Hamas are killing their own people,They are responsible for their dead children.They can stop this killing at any time but they prefer to sacrifice their own people and film the wailing cries of publicly
filmed funerals in a callous bid to instigate anti-Israel sentiment throughout the world.

[haranguerer]

There is no defence, its a war crime. The international community need to step up or otherwise anything goes. Obama has no business coming to this country again if he is going to hide away on this issue.

I havent heard much out of that eejit Kenny either, have you?

I wonder what his thoughts on the matter are? That is if he has any.

I think hes too busy trying to appear statesmanlike in tribute videos to Bill O'Herlihy and the like. It appears he imagines Taoiseach to be a largely ceremonial role.

[seafoid]

Hamas are killing their own people,They are responsible for their dead children.They can stop this killing at any time but they prefer to sacrifice their own people and film the wailing cries of publicly
filmed funerals in a callous bid to instigate anti-Israel sentiment throughout the world.

Israel can't manage social media. That's the vector of anti-Israel sentiment throughout the world.

[Rossie11]

Hamas are killing their own people,They are responsible for their dead children.They can stop this killing at any time but they prefer to sacrifice their own people and film the wailing cries of publicly
filmed funerals in a callous bid to instigate anti-Israel sentiment throughout the world.

How is this any different to what the west do against Muslims? Doesnt make it right but have some balance to the argrument

[seafoid]

http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2014-07-21/calls-for-genocide-enter-israeli-mainstream/

Calls for genocide enter Israeli mainstream
21 July 2014
As we watch the horrifying slaughter unfold in Gaza, bear in mind the Israeli psychosis that fuels and justifies it. Here are comments from three rightwing Israelis – two leading politicians and a professor – who very much reflect a strain of mainstream thinking in Israel, one that the international media largely avoids noting.
Each, in their different ways, is advocating a genocide of the Palestinians.
Ayelet Shaked, of economics minister Naftali Bennett's Jewish Home party, calls on her Facebook page for murdering the mothers of what she terms Palestinian "terrorists" (a very broad concept indeed in current Israeli thinking) so that they cannot give birth to more "little snakes":
They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists. They are all our enemies and their blood should be on our hands. This also applies to the mothers of the dead terrorists. ...
[The terrorists] are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.
Mordechai Kedar, a lecturer on Arabic literature at Bar Ilan University, believes the sisters and mothers of Palestinian "terrorists" should be raped:
A terrorist, like those who kidnapped the boys [in the West Bank on June 12] and killed them, the only thing that will deter them, is if they know that either their sister or mother will be raped if they are caught. What can we do? This is the culture that we live in.
Note that his university did not reprimand him. They defended his comments:
The purpose was to define the culture of death of the terrorist organizations. Dr Kedar illustrated in his words the bitter reality of the Middle East and the inability of a modern and law-abiding country to fight the terror of suicide bombers.
And finally we have Moshe Feiglin, a deputy speaker of the Israeli parliament and a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud party, urging the Israeli army to kill Palestinians in Gaza indiscriminately and use every means possible to get them to leave:
[Netanyahu] announces that Israel is about to attack military targets in their area and urges those who are not involved and do not wish to be harmed to leave immediately. Sinai is not far from Gaza and they can leave. This will be the limit of Israel's humanitarian efforts. ... All the military and infrastructural targets will be attacked with no consideration for 'human shields' or 'environmental damage'. ...
The IDF will conquer the entire Gaza, using all the means necessary to minimize any harm to our soldiers, with no other considerations. ... The enemy population that is innocent of wrong-doing and separated itself from the armed terrorists will be treated in accordance with international law and will be allowed to leave. Israel will generously aid those who wish to leave.
This psychosis is not going to get better on its own. In fact, it's going to get much worse. How much worse will depend entirely on the continuing inaction of western leaders.

Innocent Jews in Europe get the consequences

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/22/gaza-crisis-john-kerry-and-ban-ki-moon-step-up-attempts-to-broker-ceasefire-live-updates


The foreign ministers of Germany, France and Italy have condemned what they say is a rise in anti-Semitism in their countries amid protests against the conflict in Gaza. From AP:
In a joint statement the ministers said Tuesday that "anti-Semitic rhetoric and hostility against Jews, attacks on people of Jewish belief and synagogues have no place in our societies".
While the ministers say they respect freedom of speech, they say they will do everything possible to fight "acts and statements that cross the line to anti-Semitism, racism and xenophobia".

[rossiewanderer]

Hamas fires their rockets from schools, Kindergardens and Mosques using human shields in the process These are facts.It would appear to me that they hate Israel more than they love their people.

Israel are the right side in this unfolding tragedy.

No amount of esteemed professional Palestinian protesters in this country who continually quote out of context will convince me otherwise.In fact many of the rabble that constitutes these protests should get people thinking,Hang on a minute here....

[EC Unique]

Hamas fires their rockets from schools, Kindergardens and Mosques using human shields in the process These are facts.It would appear to me that they hate Israel more than they love their people.

Israel are the right side in this unfolding tragedy.

No amount of esteemed professional Palestinian protesters in this country who continually quote out of context will convince me otherwise.In fact many of the rabble that constitutes these protests should get people thinking,Hang on a minute here....

Could it be possible that there are wrongs on both sides?