The Palestine thread

[seafoid]

I think the future of Israel looks really grim after this latest savagery. They have nothing but contempt for the rights of the people of Gaza. Hamas are asking for the siege to be lifted and for Gazans to be allowed to go to East Jerusalem and they call up 60,000 soldiers and blow up a rehab hospital . The level of brainwashing to keep the Jews in Israel onside in all of this is phenomenal and it takes years to get it right.

They'll still be moaning about the Holocaust as their friends abandon them one by one.   

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/17/the_slaughter_of_innocents_gaza_israel_hamas_ukraine_mh71

"The sight of dead children not only weakens Israel politically and dents the country's international standing, but it taints every defensible action Israel might take and devalues any future peace by literally having snuffed it out for those who might have benefited from that better future."

Hamas rejected the Egyptian ceasefire offer. They are as bad as the IDF. Neither care about the deaths of innocent Palestinian civilians.

Hamas want the siege lifted. 80% of people in Gaza are on food aid because of the siege.
But that's never explained to people 
Israel is slowly killing Gaza. Hamas are entitled to try to change things.

Are you condoning their attacks on Israel?
IMO they are not only futile but counter-productive as they give Israel the excuse they need and as a result children die.

International law is waived when it comes to Gaza. There are no Geneva Conventions for Gaza. why not? Because Gazans are not full people and poor Israel is the Jewish state.

Israel does whatever it wants. It'll kill people in hospital beds as necessary.

Hamas wants to leverage international disgust at the number of kids Israel kills  to lift the siege.  I think most decent people would support the people of Gaza. They have no other means of action. Netanyahu said last Friday there'll never be a Palestinian State. The Americans will veto everything at the UN. 

Israel's hatred of Gaza is limitless. They have to be stopped. It's going to destroy Israel anyway.   

[orangeman]

It seems to be a case now of how low you can go. There are no bounds. Nothing that cannot be excused or defended.

[give her dixie]

I think the future of Israel looks really grim after this latest savagery. They have nothing but contempt for the rights of the people of Gaza. Hamas are asking for the siege to be lifted and for Gazans to be allowed to go to East Jerusalem and they call up 60,000 soldiers and blow up a rehab hospital . The level of brainwashing to keep the Jews in Israel onside in all of this is phenomenal and it takes years to get it right.

They'll still be moaning about the Holocaust as their friends abandon them one by one.   

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/17/the_slaughter_of_innocents_gaza_israel_hamas_ukraine_mh71

"The sight of dead children not only weakens Israel politically and dents the country's international standing, but it taints every defensible action Israel might take and devalues any future peace by literally having snuffed it out for those who might have benefited from that better future."

Hamas rejected the Egyptian ceasefire offer. They are as bad as the IDF. Neither care about the deaths of innocent Palestinian civilians.

Hamas rejected the ceasefire as it was a scam put together by Blair, Sissi, Kerry and Netanyahu in order to corner Hamas so that the mass slaughter could go up a few notches by Israel.  Hamas were not even informed about the details of the ceasefire and what they knew about it was through the media.

It is all explained here

http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2014-07-16/how-us-and-blair-plotted-ceasefire-scam/

[give her dixie]

I think the future of Israel looks really grim after this latest savagery. They have nothing but contempt for the rights of the people of Gaza. Hamas are asking for the siege to be lifted and for Gazans to be allowed to go to East Jerusalem and they call up 60,000 soldiers and blow up a rehab hospital . The level of brainwashing to keep the Jews in Israel onside in all of this is phenomenal and it takes years to get it right.

They'll still be moaning about the Holocaust as their friends abandon them one by one.   

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/17/the_slaughter_of_innocents_gaza_israel_hamas_ukraine_mh71

"The sight of dead children not only weakens Israel politically and dents the country's international standing, but it taints every defensible action Israel might take and devalues any future peace by literally having snuffed it out for those who might have benefited from that better future."

Hamas rejected the Egyptian ceasefire offer. They are as bad as the IDF. Neither care about the deaths of innocent Palestinian civilians.

Hamas want the siege lifted. 80% of people in Gaza are on food aid because of the siege.
But that's never explained to people 
Israel is slowly killing Gaza. Hamas are entitled to try to change things.

Seafoid, i'm late to this .... but what should Israel do ? Are they allowed to defend themselves ?
And what did Hamas really expect was going to happen when they kidnapped the 3 Israeli teenagers and killed them ?
There is a lot of fault on both sides but while Hamas continue on their current path, then there will always be trouble around the corner...
Worth a read: http://m.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/07/what-exactly-is-hamas-trying-to-prove/374342/

What evidence do you have that Hamas kidnapped the boys?

[give her dixie]

How Politics and Lies Triggered an Unintended War in Gaza

Kidnap, Crackdown, Mutual Missteps and a Hail of Rockets

By J.J. Goldberg

In the flood of angry words that poured out of Israel and Gaza during a week of spiraling violence, few statements were more blunt, or more telling, than this throwaway line by the chief spokesman of the Israeli military, Brigadier General Moti Almoz, speaking July 8 on Army Radio's morning show: "We have been instructed by the political echelon to hit Hamas hard."

That's unusual language for a military mouthpiece. Typically they spout lines like "We will take all necessary actions" or "The state of Israel will defend its citizens." You don't expect to hear: "This is the politicians' idea. They're making us do it."

Admittedly, demurrals on government policy by Israel's top defense brass, once virtually unthinkable, have become almost routine in the Netanyahu era. Usually, though, there's some measure of subtlety or discretion. This particular interview was different. Where most disagreements involve policies that might eventually lead to some future unnecessary war, this one was about an unnecessary war they were now stumbling into.

Spokesmen don't speak for themselves. Almoz was expressing a frustration that was building in the army command for nearly a month, since the June 12 kidnapping of three Israeli yeshiva boys. The crime set off a chain of events in which Israel gradually lost control of the situation, finally ending up on the brink of a war that nobody wanted — not the army, not the government, not even the enemy, Hamas.

The frustration had numerous causes. Once the boys' disappearance was known, troops began a massive, 18-day search-and-rescue operation, entering thousands of homes, arresting and interrogating hundreds of individuals, racing against the clock. Only on July 1, after the boys' bodies were found, did the truth come out: The government had known almost from the beginning that the boys were dead. It maintained the fiction that it hoped to find them alive as a pretext to dismantle Hamas' West Bank operations.

The initial evidence was the recording of victim Gilad Shaer's desperate cellphone call to Moked 100, Israel's 911. When the tape reached the security services the next morning — neglected for hours by Moked 100 staff — the teen was heard whispering "They've kidnapped me" ("hatfu oti") followed by shouts of "Heads down," then gunfire, two groans, more shots, then singing in Arabic. That evening searchers found the kidnappers' abandoned, torched Hyundai, with eight bullet holes and the boys' DNA. There was no doubt.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu immediately placed a gag order on the deaths. Journalists who heard rumors were told the Shin Bet wanted the gag order to aid the search. For public consumption, the official word was that Israel was "acting on the assumption that they're alive." It was, simply put, a lie.

Moti Almoz, as army spokesman, was in charge of repeating the lie. True, others backed him up, including Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon. But when the truth came out on July 1, Almoz bore the brunt of public derision. Critics said his credibility was shot. He'd only been spokesman since October, after a long career as a blunt-talking field commander with no media experience. Others felt professional frustration. His was personal.

Nor was that the only fib. It was clear from the beginning that the kidnappers weren't acting on orders from Hamas leadership in Gaza or Damascus. Hamas' Hebron branch — more a crime family than a clandestine organization — had a history of acting without the leaders' knowledge, sometimes against their interests. Yet Netanyahu repeatedly insisted Hamas was responsible for the crime and would pay for it.

This put him in a ticklish position. His rhetoric raised expectations that after demolishing Hamas in the West Bank he would proceed to Gaza. Hamas in Gaza began preparing for it. The Israeli right — settler leaders, hardliners in his own party — began demanding it.

But Netanyahu had no such intention. The last attack on Gaza, the eight-day Operation Pillar of Defense in November 2012, targeted Hamas leaders and taught a sobering lesson. Hamas hadn't fired a single rocket since, and had largely suppressed fire by smaller jihadi groups. Rocket firings, averaging 240 per month in 2007, dropped to five per month in 2013. Neither side had any desire to end the détente. Besides, whatever might replace Hamas in Gaza could only be worse.

The kidnapping and crackdown upset the balance. In Israel, grief and anger over the boys' disappearance grew steadily as the fabricated mystery stretched into a second and third week. Rallies and prayer meetings were held across the country and in Jewish communities around the world. The mothers were constantly on television. One addressed the United Nations in Geneva to plead for her son's return. Jews everywhere were in anguish over the unceasing threat of barbaric Arab terror plaguing Israel.

This, too, was misleading. The last seven years have been the most tranquil in Israel's history. Terror attacks are a fraction of the level during the nightmare intifada years — just six deaths in all of 2013. But few notice. The staged agony of the kidnap search created, probably unintentionally, what amounts to a mass, worldwide attack of post-traumatic stress flashback.

When the bodies were finally found, Israelis' anger exploded into calls for revenge, street riots and, finally, murder.

Amid the rising tension, cabinet meetings in Jerusalem turned into shouting matches. Ministers on the right demanded the army reoccupy Gaza and destroy Hamas. Netanyahu replied, backed by the army and liberal ministers, that the response must be measured and careful. It was an unaccustomed and plainly uncomfortable role for him. He was caught between his pragmatic and ideological impulses.

In Gaza, leaders went underground. Rocket enforcement squads stopped functioning and jihadi rocket firing spiked. Terror squads began preparing to counterattack Israel through tunnels. One tunnel exploded on June 19 in an apparent work accident, killing five Hamas gunmen, convincing some in Gaza that the Israeli assault had begun while reinforcing Israeli fears that Hamas was plotting terror all along.

On June 29, an Israeli air attack on a rocket squad killed a Hamas operative. Hamas protested. The next day it unleashed a rocket barrage, its first since 2012. The cease-fire was over. Israel was forced to retaliate for the rockets with air raids. Hamas retaliated for the raids with more rockets. And so on. Finally Israel began calling up reserves on July 8 and preparing for what, as Moti Almoz told Army Radio, "the political echelon instructed."

Later that morning, Israel's internal security minister Yitzhak Aharonovitch told reporters that the "political echelon has given the army a free hand." Almoz returned to Army Radio that afternoon and confirmed that the army had "received an absolutely free hand" to act.

And how far, the interviewer asked, will the army go? "To the extent that it's up to the army," Almoz said, "the army is determined to restore quiet." Will simply restoring quiet be enough? "That's not up to us," he said. The army will continue the operation as long as it's told.

The operation's army code-name, incidentally, is "Protective Edge" in English, but the original Hebrew is more revealing: Tzuk Eitan, or "solid cliff." That, the army seems to feel, is where Israel is headed.

[give her dixie]

Ayman Mohyeldin, the NBC News correspondent who personally witnessed yesterday's killing by Israel of four Palestinian boys on a Gazan beach and who has received widespread praise for his brave and innovative coverage of the conflict, has been told by NBC executives to leave Gaza immediately.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/17/nbc-removes-ayman-mohyeldin-gaza-coverage-witnesses-israeli-beach-killing-four-boys/

[orangeman]

Any one seeking the truth in this or any conflict will naturally be very disappointed. Too bad when reporters can't report it as it is.

[give her dixie]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/dorsey/israeli-crowd-cheers-as-missile-hits-gaza-live-on-cnn

I actually happened to be watching this at the time. Made me feel ill. Thought the reporter herself looked nervous, her tweet explains why.  I wonder who made her delete the tweet, or i guess it could have been herself for safety reasons.

She got her P45 today

CNN has pulled correspondent Diana Magnay out of her post covering the Israeli-Palestinian conflict after the reporter tweeted that Israelis cheering bombs hitting Gaza, and who had allegedly threatened her, were "scum."

http://rt.com/usa/173888-cnn-reporter-scum-israel/#.U8lTMrSt61A.twitter

[give her dixie]

38 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza by airstrikes and artillery fire since Israel launched a ground operation late Thursday, medics said.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=714088

[JimStynes]

Has Israel got any supporters in here apart from Sheehy?

[give her dixie]

I think the future of Israel looks really grim after this latest savagery. They have nothing but contempt for the rights of the people of Gaza. Hamas are asking for the siege to be lifted and for Gazans to be allowed to go to East Jerusalem and they call up 60,000 soldiers and blow up a rehab hospital . The level of brainwashing to keep the Jews in Israel onside in all of this is phenomenal and it takes years to get it right.

Nah, this is just the latest in series of cycles of Israeli violence and certainly won't be the last. They know exactly how far they can push things before their US sponsors have to reign them in. A few weeks after they do, it'll all be forgotten about, agreements on border crossings and blockades will be reneged on and five years from now they'll do the same thing again.

100% on the money.

This isn't about rockets right now, its just the bi annual mass slaughter that Israel launch in order to satisfy their thirst for blood and supremacy. They can do what they want, when they want, to whoever they want, in any country they want and there is nothing anyone is doing about it. They have the full support to kill at will. Killing the 4 boys in front of all the media was a message to everyone that they are above any law. The USA will always have their back at the UN.

This is all about the land. Nothing else. They want it, and they will do all they can to get it. The rockets this time are the latest excuse. In a couple of years time there will be another excuse and the cycle continues.

[The Iceman]

"American's" are calling for huckabee to run for President based on his spot on calling of the situation in Gaza. Read the comments. Some crazy responses....
https://www.facebook.com/HuckabeeShow

[ballinaman]

"American's" are calling for huckabee to run for President based on his spot on calling of the situation in Gaza. Read the comments. Some crazy responses....
https://www.facebook.com/HuckabeeShow

Absolute gobshite...closely followed by those comments  ....the blonde one is a rhoyde

[Carmen Stateside]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/dorsey/israeli-crowd-cheers-as-missile-hits-gaza-live-on-cnn

I actually happened to be watching this at the time. Made me feel ill. Thought the reporter herself looked nervous, her tweet explains why.  I wonder who made her delete the tweet, or i guess it could have been herself for safety reasons.

She got her P45 today

CNN has pulled correspondent Diana Magnay out of her post covering the Israeli-Palestinian conflict after the reporter tweeted that Israelis cheering bombs hitting Gaza, and who had allegedly threatened her, were "scum."

http://rt.com/usa/173888-cnn-reporter-scum-israel/#.U8lTMrSt61A.twitter

That seems to answer my question.  Is there any news channel to watch that does not try and force feed Isreali lies?

[give her dixie]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/dorsey/israeli-crowd-cheers-as-missile-hits-gaza-live-on-cnn

I actually happened to be watching this at the time. Made me feel ill. Thought the reporter herself looked nervous, her tweet explains why.  I wonder who made her delete the tweet, or i guess it could have been herself for safety reasons.

She got her P45 today

CNN has pulled correspondent Diana Magnay out of her post covering the Israeli-Palestinian conflict after the reporter tweeted that Israelis cheering bombs hitting Gaza, and who had allegedly threatened her, were "scum."

http://rt.com/usa/173888-cnn-reporter-scum-israel/#.U8lTMrSt61A.twitter

That seems to answer my question.  Is there any news channel to watch that does not try and force feed Isreali lies?

Channel 4 news and John Snow is the only one to challenge the Hasbara spewed from the Israeli spokespeople.

This was John Snow grilling Mark Regev 2 days ago after the attack on the beach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-10JCxgEGLk