The Palestine thread

[whiskeysteve]

Keep it up GHD, ignore that Sheehy troll, poor chaps wrapped up in the poison of his own personal vendettas

[balladmaker]

Where's the greater Arab world in all of this, if ever a people were disowned by their own, it's the Palestinians, and disowned by the greater world also.  Shocking how much violience can be inflicted upon a people while the outside world stands idly by.  Israel know how far they can go with this, and are taking it to the very limit.  It is Genocide pure and simple, but we won't see Netanyahu at the Hague any time soon.

[seafoid]

I think the future of Israel looks really grim after this latest savagery. They have nothing but contempt for the rights of the people of Gaza. Hamas are asking for the siege to be lifted and for Gazans to be allowed to go to East Jerusalem and they call up 60,000 soldiers and blow up a rehab hospital . The level of brainwashing to keep the Jews in Israel onside in all of this is phenomenal and it takes years to get it right.

Nah, this is just the latest in series of cycles of Israeli violence and certainly won't be the last. They know exactly how far they can push things before their US sponsors have to reign them in. A few weeks after they do, it'll all be forgotten about, agreements on border crossings and blockades will be reneged on and five years from now they'll do the same thing again.

No. The occupation is almost 50 years old. They are not interested in peace. They want all of the land and they have brutalised their society to achieve that goal. In 5 years you are more likely to see ethnic cleansing than anything else.

Israel is a really fucked up country. They never dealt with the trauma of the Holocaust. And the Yanks just encouraged them.

In the last 2 weeks

-  "death to arabs" riots all over the country
- young Palestinian man burnt alive by Orthodox Jews  - they poured petrol down his throat and lit it
- his American cousin beaten up on camera by Israeli cops
- 10 people blown to smithereens as they watch the World Cup at a Gaza beach cafe
- 18 members of the Al Batsh family killed all at once when Israel shelled their house
- calls for genocide of Palestinians widespread on Israeli social media
- killing of four young boys as they play soccer at the beach in front of hotel filled w/ international journos
- deliberate destruction of El Wafa Rehab Hospital

It's not stable

[Mike Sheehy]

Keep it up GHD, ignore that Sheehy troll, poor chaps wrapped up in the poison of his own personal vendettas

I see as well as being homophobic you support GHD's extremism. No surprise there.

[LeoMc]

I think the future of Israel looks really grim after this latest savagery. They have nothing but contempt for the rights of the people of Gaza. Hamas are asking for the siege to be lifted and for Gazans to be allowed to go to East Jerusalem and they call up 60,000 soldiers and blow up a rehab hospital . The level of brainwashing to keep the Jews in Israel onside in all of this is phenomenal and it takes years to get it right.

They'll still be moaning about the Holocaust as their friends abandon them one by one.   

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/17/the_slaughter_of_innocents_gaza_israel_hamas_ukraine_mh71

"The sight of dead children not only weakens Israel politically and dents the country's international standing, but it taints every defensible action Israel might take and devalues any future peace by literally having snuffed it out for those who might have benefited from that better future."

Hamas rejected the Egyptian ceasefire offer. They are as bad as the IDF. Neither care about the deaths of innocent Palestinian civilians.

[Mike Sheehy]

Where's the greater Arab world in all of this, if ever a people were disowned by their own, it's the Palestinians, and disowned by the greater world also.  Shocking how much violience can be inflicted upon a people while the outside world stands idly by.  Israel know how far they can go with this, and are taking it to the very limit.  It is Genocide pure and simple, but we won't see Netanyahu at the Hague any time soon.

There is plenty of discrimination against Palestinians in other Arab countries. Most Arab countries use the Israeli/Palestinian conflict as a diversionary tactic to deflect attention from internal domestic problems. During the Arab spring in Egypt you had both sides saying the other side was controlled by the Zionists. That should tell you something.

[seafoid]

I think the future of Israel looks really grim after this latest savagery. They have nothing but contempt for the rights of the people of Gaza. Hamas are asking for the siege to be lifted and for Gazans to be allowed to go to East Jerusalem and they call up 60,000 soldiers and blow up a rehab hospital . The level of brainwashing to keep the Jews in Israel onside in all of this is phenomenal and it takes years to get it right.

They'll still be moaning about the Holocaust as their friends abandon them one by one.   

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/17/the_slaughter_of_innocents_gaza_israel_hamas_ukraine_mh71

"The sight of dead children not only weakens Israel politically and dents the country's international standing, but it taints every defensible action Israel might take and devalues any future peace by literally having snuffed it out for those who might have benefited from that better future."

Hamas rejected the Egyptian ceasefire offer. They are as bad as the IDF. Neither care about the deaths of innocent Palestinian civilians.

Hamas want the siege lifted. 80% of people in Gaza are on food aid because of the siege.
But that's never explained to people 
Israel is slowly killing Gaza. Hamas are entitled to try to change things.

[whiskeysteve]

Keep it up GHD, ignore that Sheehy troll, poor chaps wrapped up in the poison of his own personal vendettas

I see as well as being homophobic you support GHD's extremism. No surprise there.

QED   

[seafoid]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/dorsey/israeli-crowd-cheers-as-missile-hits-gaza-live-on-cnn

[LeoMc]

On a separate note has anyone ever done any analysis of how the make-up of the Knesset would be affected by disenfranchsing the 600K illegal settlers in the occupied territories?

Assuming 300K are of voting age (Approx 11 seats worth) and are voting for Likud / Shas / The Jewish home, etc rather than the Centre left, could the Centre left (Yesh Atid / Labor / Hatnuah / Meretz / Hadash / Balad / Kadima / The Arab list, etc) form an alliance strong enough to govern.

Are Yesh Atid too tainted by this term in Government or is there any hope for the secular policies they once proclaimed?
UTJ claim to have no opinion on the occupied territories. Would they be for the 2 state solution?

[LeoMc]

I think the future of Israel looks really grim after this latest savagery. They have nothing but contempt for the rights of the people of Gaza. Hamas are asking for the siege to be lifted and for Gazans to be allowed to go to East Jerusalem and they call up 60,000 soldiers and blow up a rehab hospital . The level of brainwashing to keep the Jews in Israel onside in all of this is phenomenal and it takes years to get it right.

They'll still be moaning about the Holocaust as their friends abandon them one by one.   

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/17/the_slaughter_of_innocents_gaza_israel_hamas_ukraine_mh71

"The sight of dead children not only weakens Israel politically and dents the country's international standing, but it taints every defensible action Israel might take and devalues any future peace by literally having snuffed it out for those who might have benefited from that better future."

Hamas rejected the Egyptian ceasefire offer. They are as bad as the IDF. Neither care about the deaths of innocent Palestinian civilians.

Hamas want the siege lifted. 80% of people in Gaza are on food aid because of the siege.
But that's never explained to people 
Israel is slowly killing Gaza. Hamas are entitled to try to change things.

Are you condoning their attacks on Israel?
IMO they are not only futile but counter-productive as they give Israel the excuse they need and as a result children die.

[blast05]

I think the future of Israel looks really grim after this latest savagery. They have nothing but contempt for the rights of the people of Gaza. Hamas are asking for the siege to be lifted and for Gazans to be allowed to go to East Jerusalem and they call up 60,000 soldiers and blow up a rehab hospital . The level of brainwashing to keep the Jews in Israel onside in all of this is phenomenal and it takes years to get it right.

They'll still be moaning about the Holocaust as their friends abandon them one by one.   

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/17/the_slaughter_of_innocents_gaza_israel_hamas_ukraine_mh71

"The sight of dead children not only weakens Israel politically and dents the country's international standing, but it taints every defensible action Israel might take and devalues any future peace by literally having snuffed it out for those who might have benefited from that better future."

Hamas rejected the Egyptian ceasefire offer. They are as bad as the IDF. Neither care about the deaths of innocent Palestinian civilians.

Hamas want the siege lifted. 80% of people in Gaza are on food aid because of the siege.
But that's never explained to people 
Israel is slowly killing Gaza. Hamas are entitled to try to change things.

Seafoid, i'm late to this .... but what should Israel do ? Are they allowed to defend themselves ?
And what did Hamas really expect was going to happen when they kidnapped the 3 Israeli teenagers and killed them ?
There is a lot of fault on both sides but while Hamas continue on their current path, then there will always be trouble around the corner...
Worth a read: http://m.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/07/what-exactly-is-hamas-trying-to-prove/374342/

[Carmen Stateside]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/dorsey/israeli-crowd-cheers-as-missile-hits-gaza-live-on-cnn

I actually happened to be watching this at the time. Made me feel ill. Thought the reporter herself looked nervous, her tweet explains why.  I wonder who made her delete the tweet, or i guess it could have been herself for safety reasons.

[seafoid]

I think the future of Israel looks really grim after this latest savagery. They have nothing but contempt for the rights of the people of Gaza. Hamas are asking for the siege to be lifted and for Gazans to be allowed to go to East Jerusalem and they call up 60,000 soldiers and blow up a rehab hospital . The level of brainwashing to keep the Jews in Israel onside in all of this is phenomenal and it takes years to get it right.

They'll still be moaning about the Holocaust as their friends abandon them one by one.   

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/17/the_slaughter_of_innocents_gaza_israel_hamas_ukraine_mh71

"The sight of dead children not only weakens Israel politically and dents the country's international standing, but it taints every defensible action Israel might take and devalues any future peace by literally having snuffed it out for those who might have benefited from that better future."

Hamas rejected the Egyptian ceasefire offer. They are as bad as the IDF. Neither care about the deaths of innocent Palestinian civilians.

Hamas want the siege lifted. 80% of people in Gaza are on food aid because of the siege.
But that's never explained to people 
Israel is slowly killing Gaza. Hamas are entitled to try to change things.

Seafoid, i'm late to this .... but what should Israel do ? Are they allowed to defend themselves ?
And what did Hamas really expect was going to happen when they kidnapped the 3 Israeli teenagers and killed them ?
There is a lot of fault on both sides but while Hamas continue on their current path, then there will always be trouble around the corner...
Worth a read: http://m.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/07/what-exactly-is-hamas-trying-to-prove/374342/

They should quit the bullshit and give the Palestinians a state and start observing international law for a change.
They are running an apartheid system.  The siege of Gaza is immoral.
Even if 3 Jews were killed what is the point of spending half a billion dollars bombing the shit out of Gaza? Is it going to make Jews safer?
The whole situation is insane. 

[seafoid]

On a separate note has anyone ever done any analysis of how the make-up of the Knesset would be affected by disenfranchsing the 600K illegal settlers in the occupied territories?

Assuming 300K are of voting age (Approx 11 seats worth) and are voting for Likud / Shas / The Jewish home, etc rather than the Centre left, could the Centre left (Yesh Atid / Labor / Hatnuah / Meretz / Hadash / Balad / Kadima / The Arab list, etc) form an alliance strong enough to govern.

Are Yesh Atid too tainted by this term in Government or is there any hope for the secular policies they once proclaimed?
UTJ claim to have no opinion on the occupied territories. Would they be for the 2 state solution?

Yesh Atid hate the Orthodox but they aren't interested in 2 states, there is no constituency for that any more.
The Israeli political system is a big part of the problem- it's worse than Ireland for clientelism. 
The Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox vote for whoever will give them the most money.  52% of junior infants in Jewish schools are Orthodox/Ultra and their parents  tend to be more extremist that secular Israelis.   
The settlers get a lot of cash that isn't visible in any of the accounts.
And Israel has pumped so much money- over 100 bn dollars- into the settlements that they don't want to change anything.
It's a mess.

Slaughtering Gazans brings everyone together.