The Palestine thread

[Mike Sheehy]

Did sheehy make up the quote above from 2010 or is it an actual quote. It implies your company has an Israeli office does it not. Feel free to set me straight because at the moment you look like a too grade hypocrite. I bet old Dixie is raging and he'll be boycotting you next for not towing the line 100% like he did when Sinn Fein didn't do like he said.

The quote is from mondoweiss.net. Anyone who wants to check its veracity just needs to go there and search his user history and go to the date.

[seafoid]

Meanwhile Israel slides further into nihilism

http://972mag.com/watch-israeli-jews-attack-palestinian-on-public-bus/93003/

[Mike Sheehy]

Meanwhile Israel slides further into nihilism

http://972mag.com/watch-israeli-jews-attack-palestinian-on-public-bus/93003/

I think I understand now why you are so concerned about Israel. In these volatile economic times a lot
of people are concerned about their jobs and their livelihoods and I suppose you are no different. That
is fair enough I suppose. If you had just explained to everyone your situation it would have been fine.
Everyman has a right to make a living and I suppose we cant all perfectly align what we practice with what we
preach.

Still, there has to be some proportionality....you cant be this uncompromising with other peoples principles and
so fluid with your own. It creates a great dissonance between your message and your actions.

[seafoid]

AlJazeera World 2 July Filmmaker: Bilal Yousef –  Journalist Gideon Levy is arguably the most hated man in Israel for his reports on the occupied Palestinian territories — Gideon Levy is someone who evokes strong emotions from fellow Israelis. The writer and journalist has made weekly visits, over the past three decades, to the occupied Palestinian territories, describing what he sees – plainly and without propaganda. For some Israelis, he is seen as a brave disseminator of the truth. But many others condemn him as a propagandist for Hamas. And his columns for the Tel Aviv-based Haaretz newspaper have made him, arguably, one of the most hated men in Israel. "When I joined Haaretz newspaper, I started to visit the occupied territories," Levy says. "I immediately realised this was what I wanted to do; to understand the brutality and inhumanity of the Israeli occupation." "I figured out three things. First, this was the biggest drama facing the state of Israel. Second, this story was not being covered by the Israeli media. And third, this was going to be my life mission – to report about the Israeli occupation to Israeli readers who did not want to know what was really happening there." Over the years, Levy's stories have shed light on the realities Palestinians face on a daily basis. One of his earlier reports, 'Death of a baby' in 1996, told of an incident involving the Abu Dahouk family. They were stopped at a checkpoint on their way to a hospital. Israeli soldiers delayed the family including a heavily pregnant Fayzeh Abu Dahouk, who ended up delivering her baby in the backseat of the car. The baby, who she hoped to name Yousef, died a couple of days later. Levy wrote at the time: "Who the hell are they? Who are those soldiers who saw Fayzeh Abu Dahouk in pain as she delivered her baby in her brother-in-law's car. Who are those soldiers who didn't let her pass to reach the hospital?" "Who are those soldiers who made Fayzeh have to wrap her baby in her clothes and walk two kilometres to reach the hospital?"
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/aljazeeraworld/2013/02/2013212837310172.html

[Mike Sheehy]

AlJazeera World 2 July Filmmaker: Bilal Yousef –  Journalist Gideon Levy is arguably the most hated man in Israel for his reports on the occupied Palestinian territories — Gideon Levy is someone who evokes strong emotions from fellow Israelis. The writer and journalist has made weekly visits, over the past three decades, to the occupied Palestinian territories, describing what he sees – plainly and without propaganda. For some Israelis, he is seen as a brave disseminator of the truth. But many others condemn him as a propagandist for Hamas. And his columns for the Tel Aviv-based Haaretz newspaper have made him, arguably, one of the most hated men in Israel. "When I joined Haaretz newspaper, I started to visit the occupied territories," Levy says. "I immediately realised this was what I wanted to do; to understand the brutality and inhumanity of the Israeli occupation." "I figured out three things. First, this was the biggest drama facing the state of Israel. Second, this story was not being covered by the Israeli media. And third, this was going to be my life mission – to report about the Israeli occupation to Israeli readers who did not want to know what was really happening there." Over the years, Levy's stories have shed light on the realities Palestinians face on a daily basis. One of his earlier reports, 'Death of a baby' in 1996, told of an incident involving the Abu Dahouk family. They were stopped at a checkpoint on their way to a hospital. Israeli soldiers delayed the family including a heavily pregnant Fayzeh Abu Dahouk, who ended up delivering her baby in the backseat of the car. The baby, who she hoped to name Yousef, died a couple of days later. Levy wrote at the time: "Who the hell are they? Who are those soldiers who saw Fayzeh Abu Dahouk in pain as she delivered her baby in her brother-in-law's car. Who are those soldiers who didn't let her pass to reach the hospital?" "Who are those soldiers who made Fayzeh have to wrap her baby in her clothes and walk two kilometres to reach the hospital?"
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/aljazeeraworld/2013/02/2013212837310172.html

Seafoid, there are a lot of Israelis that speak out against the policies of their own country. That is a very hard thing to do. It is something that should be applauded. It is not something that should be exploited by people who profess their hatred of Israelis at every turn. You stab them in the back with a lot of the stuff you post on here and mondoweiss. It is that two facedness that I particularily dislike about you.

[omaghjoe]

I've just been reading some of the comments on this thread and I have come to a conclusion about the whole thing

Jaysus! You two are mad!

[seafoid]

There aren't enough Israelis who speak up. That is the tragedy of Israel. The system rolls on and apartheid is the result. Will Israel be able to sell apartheid to the goys? I don't think so.
And trolling here won't change the awful dynamics of what is going on over there.

"Seafoid, there are a lot of Israelis that speak out against the policies of their own country"

Name 10 of them

[Itchy]

Seafood is now implying there are less than 10 Israelis that speak about about their behaviour. Hasn't even the balls to answer sheehys question instead labelling him as a troll. Almost Israeli like! At least old Dixie would never work for a company with links to Israel, he has some principles.

[Mike Sheehy]

Gideon Levy
Chemi Shalev
David Grossman
Yehuda Shaul
Yonatan Shapira
Uri Avnery
Hagit Ofran
Yariv Oppenheimer
Talia Sasson
Ronnie Barkan

and those are just the more public faces.

Also, even for those ordinary people that don't speak out but that have moderate views you do them a great disservice by constantly portraying Israelis a frothing tribe of rabid Zionists. The newspaper that you constantly quote from, haaretz has the third largest circulation in Israel. Who do you think buys those newspapers Seafoid ?  What kind of Israeli would continue to buy a newspaper that prints a headline "Why All Israelis are cowards" . A pretty tolerant one I would say...hardly a rabid Zionist. Can you imagine the reaction in Ireland if an Irish newspaper, at the height of the IRA's bombing campaign,  said all Irish people were cowards by having an ambiguous attitude to terrorism ?

The bottom line is that, fine...more could speak out...but you don't exactly encourage people to speak out if you constantly demonize them do you ?

[seafoid]

Gideon Levy
Chemi Shalev
David Grossman
Yehuda Shaul
Yonatan Shapira
Uri Avnery
Hagit Ofran
Yariv Oppenheimer
Talia Sasson
Ronnie Barkan

and those are just the more public faces.

Also, even for those ordinary people that don't speak out but that have moderate views you do them a great disservice by constantly portraying Israelis a frothing tribe of rabid Zionists. The newspaper that you constantly quote from, haaretz has the third largest circulation in Israel. Who do you think buys those newspapers Seafoid ?  What kind of Israeli would continue to buy a newspaper that prints a headline "Why All Israelis are cowards" . A pretty tolerant one I would say...hardly a rabid Zionist. Can you imagine the reaction in Ireland if an Irish newspaper, at the height of the IRA's bombing campaign,  said all Irish people were cowards by having an ambiguous attitude to terrorism ?

The bottom line is that, fine...more could speak out...but you don't exactly encourage people to speak out if you constantly demonize them do you ?

cheers

I'll see what they've written recently about Israel's occupation.

Here's a shameless muslim extremist, Roger Cohen, stabbing Israel in the back

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/four-boys-butchered-the-cost-of-spurning-efforts-for-peace-in-the-middle-east-1.1855590

"Still, Israel, a state of laws within the pre-1967 lines, is not a state of law beyond them in the occupied West Bank, where Israeli dominion over millions of Palestinians, now almost a half-century old, involves routine coercion, humiliation and abuse, to which most Israelis have grown increasingly oblivious.What goes on beyond a long-forgotten Green Line tends to impinge on Israeli consciousness only when violence flares. "

[Mike Sheehy]

From the same article

All four killings took place in territory occupied or annexed by Israel since 1967. Here the law has taken second place to the Messianic claims of religious nationalists who believe Jews have a God-given right to all the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River. Their view holds sway, even if it is not the view of most Israelis.

You should read the articles you post Seafoid. You might learn something.

[seafoid]

Gideon Levy

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.603232
"It's not the skinheads that are the Jewish state's main problem, it's the sanctimonious eye-rollers, the thugs, the extreme right wing and the settlers. It's not the margins but the mainstream, which is partly very nationalistic and partly indifferent.
In the Jewish state, there is no remnant of the biblical injunction to treat the minority or the stranger with justice. There are no more Jews left who marched with Martin Luther King or who sat in jail with Nelson Mandela. The Jewish state, which Israel insists the Palestinians recognize, must first recognize itself. At the end of the day, at the end of a terrible week, it seems that a Jewish state means a racist, nationalistic state, meant for Jews only. "

That is very sad, IMO.

[seafoid]

Ha'aretz editorial.


This doesn't pull any punches.
I think Mr Sheehy and Mr Dixie would both agree it's very good.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.603451
Jewish hate of Arabs proves: Israel must undergo cultural revolution

Without a revolution based on humanist values, the Jewish tribe will not be worthy of its own state.

Haaretz Editorial    |  Jul. 7, 2014 | 2:20 AM |  17


There are no words to describe the horror allegedly done by six Jews to Mohammed Abu Khdeir of Shoafat. Although a gag order bars publication of details of the terrible murder and the identities of its alleged perpetrators, the account of Abu Khdeir's family — according to which the boy was burned alive — would horrify any mortal. Anyone who is not satisfied with this description, can view the horror movie in which members of Israel's Border Police are seen brutally beating Tariq Abu Khdeir, the murder victim's 15-year-old cousin.

The Israel Police was quick to label the murderers "Jewish extremists," meaning they aren't part of the herd, they are outliers, "wild weeds." This is the police's way of trying to justify a sin, to "make the vermin kosher." But the vermin is huge, and many-legged. It has embraced the soldiers and other young Israelis who overran the social media networks with calls for revenge and with hatred for Arabs. The vermin was welcomed by Knesset members, rabbis and public figures who demanded revenge. Nor did it skip over the prime minister, who declared "Vengeance for the blood of a small child, Satan has not yet created."

Abu Khdeir's murderers are not "Jewish extremists." They are the descendants and builders of a culture of hate and vengeance that is nurtured and fertilized by the guides of "the Jewish state": Those for whom every Arab is a bitter enemy, simply because they are Arab; those who were silent at the Beitar Jerusalem games when the team's fans shouted "death to Arabs" at Arab players; those who call for cleansing the state of its Arab minority, or at least to drive them out of the homes and cities of the Jews.

No less responsible for the murder are those who did not halt, with an iron hand, violence by Israeli soldiers against Palestinian civilians, and who failed to investigate complaints "due to lack of public interest." The term "Jewish extremists" actually seems more appropriate for the small Jewish minority that is still horrified by these acts of violence and murder. But they too recognize, unfortunately, that they belong to a vengeful, vindictive Jewish tribe whose license to perpetrate horrors is based on the horrors that were done to it.

Prosecuting the murderers is no longer sufficient. There must be a cultural revolution in Israel. Its political leaders and military officers must recognize this injustice and right it. They must begin raising the next generation, at least, on humanist values, and foster a tolerant public discourse. Without these, the Jewish tribe will not be worthy of its own state.

[Mike Sheehy]

Yes, it is always good that bigotry is called out.

That is why I will continue to keep you in check.

[seafoid]

Yes, it is always good that bigotry is called out.

That is why I will continue to keep you in check.

good man yourself. You're making wonderful progress.