The Palestine thread

[tyrone exile]

Out of interest Ball DeBeaver, What would your dream settlement be to the current situation with Israel/Palestine?

[seafoid]

The only people to "have tightened its grip by further restricting crossings and by reducing the flow of desperately needed goods into this territory" was Hamas. There were over 100 trucks at one crossing alone with food that was rapidly rotting. But don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

Why doesn't Israel allow the free flow of food into Gaza?

Why doesn't Hamas allow the free flow of food into Gaza?

Why doesn't Egypt allow the free flow of food into Gaza?

Why is there a humanitarian crisis in Gaza? Israel wants it.

Egypt perpetuates it. Why doesn't Egypt just open their border and end this so called suffering? Palestinians want to be seen as victims.

Jews are the ones who run the humanitarian crisis. Israeli policy. Run out of Tel Aviv.
Modern day Judaism is the Gaza policy. Forget about the mitzvot.

It wouldn't make any difference if the border with Egypt were open. Israel destroyed the economy. Israel blew up the sewerage system.
Gazans have no money.

Gaza is Israel's creation.

[Ball DeBeaver]

Out of interest Ball DeBeaver, What would your dream settlement be to the current situation with Israel/Palestine?

Dream settlement would be 2 states with borders along the line of the security fence, with all settlers repatriated and any refugees of both sides unable to go home financially compensated.

Anyone else want to comment on their ideal settlement?

[Ball DeBeaver]

Jews are the ones who run the humanitarian crisis. Israeli policy. Run out of Tel Aviv.
Modern day Judaism is the Gaza policy. Forget about the mitzvot.

Thats it, get all the antisemitic bile out of ya. The only thing being run out of Tel Aviv is the bus company. Israel's capital is Jerusalem.

It wouldn't make any difference if the border with Egypt were open. Israel destroyed the economy. Israel blew up the sewerage system.
Gazans have no money.

Gaza is Israel's creation.

Egypt has a border with Gaza which is guarded by Egyptian soldiers. Egypt has closed it's borders with Gaza, and only allows through whatever takes it's fancy on the day.
NOT ONE ISRAELI SOLDIER PATROLS THE BORDER BETWEEN GAZA AND EGYPT.

[muppet]

Jews are the ones who run the humanitarian crisis. Israeli policy. Run out of Tel Aviv.
Modern day Judaism is the Gaza policy. Forget about the mitzvot.

Thats it, get all the antisemitic bile out of ya. The only thing being run out of Tel Aviv is the bus company. Israel's capital is Jerusalem.

It wouldn't make any difference if the border with Egypt were open. Israel destroyed the economy. Israel blew up the sewerage system.
Gazans have no money.

Gaza is Israel's creation.

Egypt has a border with Gaza which is guarded by Egyptian soldiers. Egypt has closed it's borders with Gaza, and only allows through whatever takes it's fancy on the day.
NOT ONE ISRAELI SOLDIER PATROLS THE BORDER BETWEEN GAZA AND EGYPT.

Some one stop me punching this quadriplegic!

[seafoid]

Out of interest Ball DeBeaver, What would your dream settlement be to the current situation with Israel/Palestine?

Dream settlement would be 2 states with borders along the line of the security fence, with all settlers repatriated and any refugees of both sides unable to go home financially compensated.

Anyone else want to comment on their ideal settlement?

4 june 1967 borders.
the wall is a land grab.

Anyway who is going to remove the Jewish settlers from Hebron?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXSFsJV084

[seafoid]

Jews are the ones who run the humanitarian crisis. Israeli policy. Run out of Tel Aviv.
Modern day Judaism is the Gaza policy. Forget about the mitzvot.

The only thing being run out of Tel Aviv is the bus company. Israel's capital is Jerusalem.

It wouldn't make any difference if the border with Egypt were open. Israel destroyed the economy. Israel blew up the sewerage system.
Gazans have no money.

Gaza is Israel's creation.

Egypt has a border with Gaza which is guarded by Egyptian soldiers. Egypt has closed it's borders with Gaza, and only allows through whatever takes it's fancy on the day.
NOT ONE ISRAELI SOLDIER PATROLS THE BORDER BETWEEN GAZA AND EGYPT.

The Starvation policy is run out of IDF HQ in tel Aviv.
Have you ever been to Tel Aviv?

And Egypt has nothing to do with Gaza.
When the Soweto massacre happened in 1976 Mozambique closed its border with South Africa. Apartheid was thus Mozambique's responsibility, was it ?

[Ball DeBeaver]

The Starvation policy is run out of IDF HQ in tel Aviv.
Have you ever been to Tel Aviv?

And Egypt has nothing to do with Gaza.
When the Soweto massacre happened in 1976 Mozambique closed its border with South Africa. Apartheid was thus Mozambique's responsibility, was it ?

Israeli government policy is carried out by IDF. The Israeli government is in the Israeli capital of Jerusalem. There is NO starvation policy except the one operated by Hamas. Have you been to Gaza? Have you seen the starving children in GHD's video of the Darfur like conditions?      Gaza is a war zone, with the problems many areas of it's kind have and will easily recover from with help. It won't recover if so-called "friendly" neighbours continue to enforce an even more draconian blockade than the one imposed by Israel. Israel is within it's rights to blockade Gaza, as it is in what can only be desribed as a de-facto state of war and as such has no obligation to aid Gaza. Even then, Israel still allows approx 250 trucks a day to pass into Gaza with aid. Egypt  is not at war with Gaza but still blockades it and goes to great lengths to prevent smuggling of goods into Gaza.  If Gaza is being starved, then why are these tunnels being used to smuggle consumer goods into Gaza, and not food? Don't get me wrong, the people of Gaza have every right to have the same consumer goods we enjoy, but you can't eat a flat screen TV.


Egypt has a lot to do with Gaza, so much so they occupied it for 20 years until Israel captured it.

Your feeble attempt to draw a comparison between S.A, Mozambique and Gaza is not worthy of you.

[seafoid]

The Starvation policy is run out of IDF HQ in tel Aviv.
Have you ever been to Tel Aviv?

And Egypt has nothing to do with Gaza.
When the Soweto massacre happened in 1976 Mozambique closed its border with South Africa. Apartheid was thus Mozambique's responsibility, was it ?

Israeli government policy is carried out by IDF. The Israeli government is in the Israeli capital of Jerusalem. There is NO starvation policy except the one operated by Hamas. Have you been to Gaza? Have you seen the starving children in GHD's video of the Darfur like conditions?      Gaza is a war zone, with the problems many areas of it's kind have and will easily recover from with help. It won't recover if so-called "friendly" neighbours continue to enforce an even more draconian blockade than the one imposed by Israel. Israel is within it's rights to blockade Gaza, as it is in what can only be desribed as a de-facto state of war and as such has no obligation to aid Gaza. Even then, Israel still allows approx 250 trucks a day to pass into Gaza with aid. Egypt  is not at war with Gaza but still blockades it and goes to great lengths to prevent smuggling of goods into Gaza.  If Gaza is being starved, then why are these tunnels being used to smuggle consumer goods into Gaza, and not food? Don't get me wrong, the people of Gaza have every right to have the same consumer goods we enjoy, but you can't eat a flat screen TV.


Egypt has a lot to do with Gaza, so much so they occupied it for 20 years until Israel captured it.

Your feeble attempt to draw a comparison between S.A, Mozambique and Gaza is not worthy of you.

There is NO starvation policy except the one operated by Hamas.

Do you want the links again? Dov Weisglass - put Gaza on a diet.
180 trucks per day to feed a population of 1.3 million. Most days not even 150 make it.
Do you know how many trucks of food per  day go into Belfast, population less than 40% of Gaza?

Why does Gaza need aid? Why is it a massive humanitarian crisis ?  Why can't it feed itself? 
Because Israel destroyed its industrial capacity.

Huge numbers of kids in Gaza have kidney stones because of the state of the water. Who destroyed the sewage system?

If Gaza is being starved, then why are these tunnels being used to smuggle consumer goods into Gaza

Non sequitur. say 10 telvisons get every day. What difference does that make to the calorie intake?

Gaza is where Israel parted ways with Judaism, habibi. 

[seafoid]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-soldier-on-facebook-there-s-nothing-better-than-a-dead-arab.premium-1.510434

An Israeli soldier has written "there is nothing better than a dead Arab" on his Facebook page, the second IDF soldier to post strongly anti-Arab sentiment on social media in as many months.

"The Arabs are the cancer of this country and must be dealt with," wrote the soldier, a member of the Israel Defense Forces' Golani Brigade. "There is nothing better than a dead Arab."

The soldier also referred to a bus crash in Jordan last week in which Palestinians died. "I'm glad Arabs were killed," he wrote. "I''ll be happy if not one Arab remains here, and I'm sorry only 14 were killed."

[give her dixie]

Israel detains more than 30 school children

Israeli occupation forces have entered three Palestinian primary schools in the occupied West Bank city of Hebron and detained more than 30 children, local sources have told MEMO. A bus was used to take the children away. Israeli sources claim that they are carrying out a campaign against "popular terrorists" who throw stones at occupation soldiers.

Hebron's Director of Education, Nisreeen Amr, said that the Israelis are still searching for specific pupils in Tariq bin-Ziad, Al-Khalil and Al-Ibrahimiyya Primary Schools. Witnesses said that any pupil crossing Tariq bin-Ziad Street in the city is being arrested.

A spokesman for the Israeli security forces, Avichay Adraee, wrote on his Facebook page on Tuesday evening that the phenomenon of throwing stones is widening in the West Bank. "This is a dangerous phenomenon which comes within the definition of popular terrorism," he wrote. "These incidents [throwing stones] take place almost every day and the media ignores them."

Meanwhile, a group of illegal Israeli settlers attacked Palestinian vehicles on the streets around the illegal Yitzhar settlement. Witnesses said that the windscreens and windows of 18 vehicles were smashed by the settlers.

A number of Palestinians were arrested by Israel's occupation forces on Wednesday morning in other West Bank cities.

http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/5527-israel-detains-more-than-30-school-children

[seafoid]

Israel detains more than 30 school children

Israeli occupation forces have entered three Palestinian primary schools in the occupied West Bank city of Hebron and detained more than 30 children, local sources have told MEMO. A bus was used to take the children away. Israeli sources claim that they are carrying out a campaign against "popular terrorists" who throw stones at occupation soldiers.

Hebron's Director of Education, Nisreeen Amr, said that the Israelis are still searching for specific pupils in Tariq bin-Ziad, Al-Khalil and Al-Ibrahimiyya Primary Schools. Witnesses said that any pupil crossing Tariq bin-Ziad Street in the city is being arrested.

A spokesman for the Israeli security forces, Avichay Adraee, wrote on his Facebook page on Tuesday evening that the phenomenon of throwing stones is widening in the West Bank. "This is a dangerous phenomenon which comes within the definition of popular terrorism," he wrote. "These incidents [throwing stones] take place almost every day and the media ignores them."

Meanwhile, a group of illegal Israeli settlers attacked Palestinian vehicles on the streets around the illegal Yitzhar settlement. Witnesses said that the windscreens and windows of 18 vehicles were smashed by the settlers.
A number of Palestinians were arrested by Israel's occupation forces on Wednesday morning in other West Bank cities.

http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/5527-israel-detains-more-than-30-school-children

Settlers can kill with impunity but any Palestinian who dares life a finger to the whole system that is so anti Jewish to its core is a terrorist.

[theticklemister]

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Obama on first Israel trip as president vows 'eternal'

President Obama: "The winds of change bring both promise and peril"

travel to the West Bank city of Ramallah to meet Palestinian President

Peace talks, Syria and Iran's nuclear plans are expected to dominate talks.

But US officials have tried to lower expectations of any significant headway on restarting the Israeli-Palestinians peace process.

Correspondents say Israelis are more preoccupied with instability in the wider Middle East region than with breathing new life into the peace process, which broke down in 2010 amid a dispute over continued Israeli

Settlement supporters are a big force in Israel's new coalition government.

Mr Obama was welcomed at Ben Gurion airport by Mr Netanyahu and

He was introduced to Israeli ministers and leaders of religious communities and later shown a missile battery that forms part of Israel's Iron Dome defence system against rocket attacks.

"Even as we are clear eyed about the difficulties, we will never lose sight of the vision of an Israel at peace with its neighbours," he said in brief

He added: "The United States stands with Israel because it is in our fundamental security interests to stand with Israel. Our alliance is eternal.

Mr Netanyahu thanked Mr Obama for "unequivocally affirming Israel's sovereign right to defend itself by itself against any threat".

Mr Obama later visited Mr Peres at his official residence.

In a joint news conference, the Israeli president said the two nations were united by a common vision - to confront dangers and bring peace.

He said he trusted the US in its policy of preventing Iran from developing

Mr Obama said he had reassured Mr Peres "that in this work Israel will

Mr Obama then went on to talks with Mr Netanyahu. On Thursday, he will travel to the West Bank to meet Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

At home, Mr Obama has been criticised for not having visited Israel in his first term as president, with some saying it shows he is not close enough

The state of the economy and social issues dominated Israel's last election, and the president has said he is not going to the region bearing

But with warnings that time is running out for a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, some still think he will try to lay the ground for some greater effort to restart talks, BBC North America editor Mark Mardell

The president's relationship with Mr Netanyahu has been notoriously frosty and one recent opinion poll suggested a mere 10% of the Israeli public had

The main event of this trip is a speech to Israeli university students on Thursday. The president's main task is to build bridges and improve his image, which could give him more leverage over the new Israeli

Thousands of Israeli and Palestinian security officers have been assembled in Jerusalem and the Palestinians' de facto capital in the West

Both Israeli and Palestinian groups have staged protests in the run-up to

In the West Bank city of Hebron, protesters wearing masks of Mr Obama and civil rights leader Martin Luther King called for an end to "apartheid".

There were clashes between the pro-Palestinian protesters and some of the settlers living in the divided city, and a number of Palestinians were

In Gaza City, protesters burned US flags outside UN offices, the Associated

One protester said the visit would "only bring us shame and add more

Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said the visit was "ominous" and unwelcome, and that its consequences would be negative.

"It gives legitimacy to the occupation and confirms the political support of the United States [to Israel]," AP quoted him as saying.

Meanwhile, Israelis have been staging protests in Jerusalem demanding Mr Obama free Jonathan Pollard, imprisoned in  thee US in 1987. Palestinians


[DrinkingHarp]

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2013/0318/The-latest-hot-language-among-Palestinians-in-Gaza-Hebrew?nav=644333-csm_article-spotlight



The latest hot language among Palestinians in Gaza? Hebrew


Students are flocking to a fledgling Hebrew program sponsored by Gaza's Hamas-run government, encouraged by their parents who learned Hebrew through years of working in Israel.

By Christa Case Bryant, Staff writer / March 18, 2013









Maysam El-Khateeb teaches Hebrew to ninth grade girls at the tidy Hassan Salma co-ed school in Gaza City, one of 20 schools participating in a pilot program launched this school year.

Christa Case Bryant / The Christian Science Monitor




Gaza City, Gaza


For the first time in nearly 20 years, government-run schools in Gaza are teaching Hebrew, and demand is outstripping the supply of qualified teachers. The driving force behind this pilot program? Hamas.


The Christian Science Monitor
Weekly Digital Edition

"[Israel is] more developed than us, so we can get benefits out of it – in terms of science, in terms of culture," says Mohamed Suleiman Abu Shqair, the deputy minister of education in the Hamas government. "This is also to prove to the rest of the world ... that we are open-minded, even to teach our enemy's language in our schools."

Many middle-aged Gazans know Hebrew well, since they spent years working in Israel before the border was tightened in 2003. They say it's only natural that their children should know Hebrew as well and even hold out hope that they could use it to do business with Israel in the future, hinting at a possible thawing of relations between Israel and Gaza. They also laud the insight of Israeli news analysts, and say that watching Israeli TV news – readily available in Gaza, along with cultural and educational programs – can help them better understand not only their neighbor, but also their own society and political climate.


The Hebrew language pilot program, launched in September 2012, is still small in scope. Today it reaches only 20 of 400 government schools in Gaza, with each school offering a single class of 30 to 40 9th-grade students. Mr. Abu Shqair says next year Hamas would like to expand to 10th grade as well, but faces a shortage of qualified Hebrew teachers.

Even the program's strongest proponents don't claim that it will improve ties between Israel and Hamas, which is designated by Israel and the West as a terrorist organization. In fact, some suggest that the intent is more to understand the enemy.

"We are not looking for developing things with the Israelis, we are learning Hebrew to protect ourselves and to defend our country from the Israeli occupation," says Maysam El-Khateeb, a Hebrew teacher at the Hassan Salma co-ed school in Gaza City. Citing a popular proverb, she adds, "As we say, if you know the language of the other nations, you will protect yourself from their hatred and evil work."

One of her students, 14-year-old Nadine, goes even further. When asked why it is important to know the language of one's enemy, she responds confidently, "To attack them, because we must know how they think, how they talk about us."

More opportunities over the border

Daniel Fares, a father of 15 who spent most of his life working in Israel, much of it at a Coca-Cola factory, is familiar with the proverb. But he also suggests Hebrew can help improve understanding between Jews and Arabs.

Sitting in his humble home in Gaza's Jabaliya refugee camp, he recalls one time when he saw a Jewish mother and daughter walking down the street in Israel, and the daughter dropped her chocolate on the ground. Because he speaks Hebrew, he understood what the mother said when the girl leaned over to pick it up: "Don't be like the Arabs."

So he took the opportunity to tell the mother she shouldn't teach her children that way.

His children haven't learned Hebrew, but he hopes the pilot program will expand to their schools.

"In the future they could be translators, analysts, businessmen," he says, speaking fondly of his Israeli boss at Coca-Cola.

The world as a classroom

Back at Hassan Salma school, Mrs. Khateeb opens her afternoon class by saying "Erev tov!" (Good evening!)

"Erev tov," the students respond.

"Who are you? What are you? What are you studying?" she asks, beginning a sing-song pattern of call and repeat that they are clearly familiar with. One by one, girls in white hijabs stand up to answer the queries.

"Where is the notebook? Where is the chair?" she quizzes them, and they answer in unison.

This is not the way their parents' generation learned Hebrew.

Saba, a taxi driver sitting on the sidewalk with his boss, says he picked up the language during the 12 years he worked in Israel, starting with only a three-month course and then learning from everyday conversations after that.

"To learn it with communication is better even than to learn it at schools," agrees his boss, Mohammed Johar, who regrets not having learned more Hebrew himself.

"It's good for us to know what Israel thinks, what they are saying in Hebrew," says Mr. Johar. "The Israeli analysts are really good and they know and are aware of their politics and our politics. So if we listen to their analysts and our analysts, we will get a better idea of what's going on."

A first step

Hebrew was taught in Gaza schools from 1967, when Israel captured the small coastal territory in the Six-Day War with its Arab neighbors, until 1994, when the Palestinian Authority was created under the auspices of the Oslo Accords. The PA became responsible for the curriculum in government-run schools and did not include Hebrew, although United Nations schools in Gaza are run separately and did.

The Gaza Strip and the West Bank are administered largely independent of each other. Hamas runs Gaza while the PA, dominated by Hamas's secular rival Fatah, runs the West Bank. While the PA is backed by the West and has ties with Israel, Hamas has refused to recognize Israel's right to exist and the two entities do not speak directly.


Abu Shqair at Gaza's Ministry of Education insists that the Hebrew pilot program is purely educational and cultural in scope. "We don't have strategic plans or political plans out of it," he says. "We don't have any other ideology in our mind."

But he is eager to expand the program if the government can find enough qualified teachers and hopes that Gaza may one day engage again with Israel.

"I don't want to guess or imagine," he says, "but if the two people do recognize each other, this will be a normal thing."

[Ball DeBeaver]

Rocket Victim: We're 'Victims of Obama,' And Nobody Cares

Whatever the reason for Hamas' rocket attack on Israel Thursday, says the attack's victim, Israel needs to prevent any future rocket attacks


AAFont Size
By David Lev
First Publish: 3/21/2013, 10:55 AM


Hamas on Thursday denied that it or any other Gaza terror group had fired rockets at Israeli targets in the midst of U.S. President Barack H. Obama's visit to Israel. "Israel has fabricated these reports in order to mar the reputation of the resistance forces," a spokesperson for Hamas said.

A rocket fired at Israel from Gaza caused heavy damage to a house in Sderot Thursday morning. A second rocket hit an open area near the Gaza border, and two other rockets aimed at Israel fell on the Gaza side of the border fence. There were no injuries, but two residents of the house were treated for shock.


Israel, for its part, said that the attack would not go unanswered, and that Israel would "choose the time and place for its response." Israeli officials said that it was possible that Hamas was trying to elicit an Israeli response to the attack while Obama was in the region, creating a diplomatic crisis when the President visits Palestinian Authority-controlled areas Thursday and Friday. If that is indeed their intent, the officials said, then Israel could expect more rocket attacks during Obama's visit.


Israeli officials added that they were interested in seeing if PA chief Mahmoud Abbas condemned the attacks when he spoke with Obama Thursday afternoon, something he had not done at all during the period leading up to Operation Pillar of Defense, when Hamas and other Gaza terror groups fired thousands of rockets at Israel.


In an interview on Israel Radio, Yossi Haziza, whose house was damaged in Thursday's attack, said that while physical damage – to houses and people – could be repaired, the real damage by attacks like these was to the psyche of the victims. Haziza's wife and child were sleeping at the time of the attack, and the shock of the attack caused them a great deal of fear that he was unsure they would ever be able to ovecome.


"I don't know how we are going to deal with this," he said. "The terrorists fire whenever they want and however they want and we seem unable to stop them. Apparently we did not do a proper job in stopping them in Operation Pillar of Defense.


"It could be that Hamas is doing this in 'honor' of Obama, sending him a message before he goes to Ramallah that he had better not forget about them," Haziza continued. "But so what? Because they want to send a message to the president we have to suffer? Are our children supposed to be sitting ducks for diplomatic reasons? Now they have to grow up with these negative experiences. Who knows what the damage will be later on? We need to be properly defended, regardless of diplomatic issues."

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/166448