The Palestine thread

[muppet]

Read yer bible. They've been there for thousands of years

Which Bible?

[Ball DeBeaver]

How many do you have? Try the one hidden under April's edition of Reader's Wives.

[seafoid]

How many do you have? Try the one hidden under April's edition of Reader's Wives.

Are Judea and Samaria in Israel ? Presumably they are if the IDF is there. 

[muppet]

How many do you have? Try the one hidden under April's edition of Reader's Wives.

I thought your were spoofing all right.

[seafoid]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/israeli-elections-2013/israeli-elections-opinion-analysis/what-israelis-really-want-to-be-left-in-peace.premium-1.495760#

He's not an extremist, heaven forbid, that's not who we are, nor does he stick his hand in the fire, that's not us either. He stays away from any divisive issues, just as Israelis prefer. Even when they took to the streets in that magical summer of 2011, remnants of which event were still evident on Tuesday, their protests turned out in retrospect to be encapsulated only in songs by popular singers Shlomo Artzi and Eyal Golan, without real substance. Lapid fits this mold perfectly, as characterized by protest singing in the city square, with no clear agenda and angry protest. "Let us Live in Peace" was the slogan of the General Zionist party in the 1951 elections. Let us live in this land was the slogan of many Israelis Tuesday. Let us live without Arabs and Haredi Jews, without wars and terror attacks, without the world and its preaching. Now, as it was then, this represents pure escapism. On Tuesday, Israel affirmed escapism.

On Tuesday, Lapid acquired power that he most likely did not anticipate, and that he may not know what to do with. It is difficult to know if he can put some content behind the power given to him, but perhaps there is room for hope. For someone who managed to change his conduct and mannerisms in the course of the preceding campaign, shedding some of those that characterized his columns and TV appearances, growing and maturing in the process, it is possible that he will grow into the role thrust upon him on Tuesday. Perhaps with the power will also come some meaningful utterances and a willingness to fight.

A new day is dawning upon us, a dawn of a day in which Israel only wants to be left alone with all its comforts. Only grant it Lapid and quiet, the terrible quiet at the brink of the abyss.

[seafoid]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/israeli-elections-2013/israeli-elections-opinion-analysis/the-rot-that-will-ruin-us.premium-1.495904
The rot that will ruin us

The only democracy in the Middle East has voted. The election was about nothing, and resulted in nothing.

By Gideon Levy | Jan.23, 2013 | 4:18 PM | 1

The sewage lately has been getting clogged and overflowing; they say it's because of the lady from the third floor, who throws wet wipes into the toilet. The stairwell halls, too, aren't as white as they used to be; they need to be whitewashed. The pipes have burst a couple of times lately, a plumber is urgently needed; the neighbor from the second floor says we should install an intercom, there's been a wave of break-ins in the neighborhood. His upstairs neighbor says the roof should be tarred.

The municipality demands we build a storage facility for the garbage bins, and the chinaberry tree in the yard needs trimming.

And so, the residents got together and elected a new building committee. The new neighbor with the jeep was, surprisingly, elected for second place: a good-looking guy, he always greets everyone with a friendly smile and kind manners. That's why he was elected.

The only democracy in the Middle East has voted. The election was about nothing, and resulted in nothing. The democracy's first citizen, Shimon Peres, sang its illusory praises: "This is a special state that will never give up its freedom," and also, "This is a state of builders, fighters and builders." And indeed this was an excellent election ... as far the building committee is concerned.

"The thoughtful people" of "the state that will never give up its freedom" wanted gardening, dreamed of an intercom, and chose the polite neighbor. The former chairman, the one who was always quiet between 2 P.M. and 4 P.M., was elected again as well. Living in inconceivable denial, the building's residents again ignored the bitter truth: The entire building stands on a rotten foundation. Neither the old committee chairman nor the new neighbor are likely to have enough courage to take care of that issue.

If Yair Lapid were brave enough, he could now try to build a new, surprising coalition of the center-left parties, the Arab parties, and Habayit Hayehudi or the ultra-Orthodox parties. That is possible, it's not a winter's tale. But it's doubtful Lapid has the courage to be prime minister. Perhaps he feels the position is too big for him.

Then why did he enter politics? And if not, why doesn't he try? But he'll need a lot more courage for a different goal: to get rid of the rot that's taken hold of the building's foundations, and is threatening to bring it down. In a situation like this, there's no point worrying about the gardening and the intercom. That's all Lapid has addressed so far – the "equal burden" of military duty and the "middle class."

There's no way to act for social justice in Israel while it is being trampled in the dirt beyond the Green Line. There's no way of acting for the interests of the middle class and ignoring the disgrace of the poor here and the refugees there. Democracy can no longer be fortified when it includes occupation. The justice system cannot be preserved when its foundations are rotten, there is a scandalous military justice system, and proven discrimination in the civil system as well. The economy cannot be fixed if we don't stop the waste of funds on the security budget and the no-less-scandalous waste of funds on settlements.

There is no way of improving the state's international status without freeing the Palestinian people of its hold. Israel's many ills can no longer be treated without making, first of all, the most crucial decision of all: ending the occupation. There's no time left for another government of maintenance, one that will behave like a building committee. In any case such governments are destined to vanish; the failure of Likud has proven that.

Most of the Israelis proved in this election that what they seek is nothing – maintenance, denial, and burying their heads in the sand. Benjamin Netanyahu has already proven in his years of office that he has no intention of acting differently.

Lapid has also proven so far, in his campaign, that he has no other intention.
But when there's no better choice, perhaps Lapid will be revealed as a leader: "We've come to make a change"? This is his life's chance, our life's chance. He can become prime minister, if he only so wishes; he can also become the Israeli Frederik Willem de Klerk, if he is brave enough. Am I exaggerating? It's the voice of despair.

[Ball DeBeaver]

Irish Official Denounces 'Corrosive Rise in Racist Rhetoric'

Irish official denounces "corrosive rise in racist and anti-Semitic rhetoric by a malign minority of politicians" in EU member states.


AAFont Size
By Rachel Hirshfeld
First Publish: 1/24/2013, 10:08 PM




Holocaust memorial ceremony in Romania

Reuters



Addressing an event commemorating International Holocaust Remembrance Day in the European Parliament in Brussels, an Irish official denounced the "corrosive rise in racist and anti-Semitic rhetoric by a malign minority of politicians" in a number of EU member states.


"It is a moral imperative that we unequivocally repudiate the reprehensible rhetoric of those who seek to contaminate our political discourse and attempt to inflame dangerous prejudice," said Irish Justice Minister Alan Shatter, whose country currently chairs the rotating EU presidency.


According to The European Jewish Press (EJP), Shatter, whose responsibilities also cover defense and equality, said that it is no longer enough to merely remember the Holocaust, but stressed that "we must also remember to act. We must do more under the rule of law to end intolerance, racism and anti-Semitism."


"The Shoah did not begin in the death camps. It began with words of hate," he added. "Those words of hate became weapons of mass murder because good people closed their doors and windows shutters and remained silent."


"Let us unite in our commitment to the victims of the Shoah and the lost generations to do all we can to ensure that the Holocaust of the 20th century will never again be repeated," concluded Shatter.


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/164546

[seafoid]

We must do more under the rule of law to end intolerance, racism and anti-Semitism."


there should be no place for racism in Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/arab-sixth-graders-passengers-on-jerusalem-bus-harassed-us.premium-1.496251

At least three passengers on a public bus in Jerusalem harassed a group of Arab sixth-graders on their way home from school this week, with one woman calling them monkeys, issuing death threats, and hitting one of the girls and pulling her hair, according to the girl's father.
Ayub, the father, said his daughter has grown accustomed to verbal abuse while passing through Jewish neighborhoods, but that this was the first time she was physically assaulted. He said only one passenger came to the children's defense and asked the woman to desist.

[Ball DeBeaver]

If you want to debate intolerance and hatred, how's this for a starter?



Gaza teens graduate from Hamas military school

First batch of teenagers graduate from Hamas terrorist training program

Associated Press Published:  01.24.13, 19:42 / Israel News 
 






More than 3,000 Palestinian teenagers have graduated from the Hamas terror group's first high school military training program in the Gaza Strip.



The Futuwwa, or Youth, program is a weekly elective that is offered in all of Gaza's high schools. Officials say 3,600 participated in the first session, which began in September and is aimed at fostering a new generation of leaders in the struggle against Israel.

"We teach the youth to honor the national flag and anthem, to strengthen their affinity with the homeland and Jerusalem, the spirit of resistance and the principles of steadfastness," said Abu Hozifa, a 29-year-old national security officer who teaches in the program. 

"We also prepare them in terms of faith and physical fitness to serve as resistance fighters if they want to be in the future."

During the one-hour session each week, students were taught to climb down buildings on ropes, jump through obstacle courses and crawl under barbed wire.

The oldest students are trained to use light weapons, while younger ones train with wooden rifles. Each participant is assigned to a security officer who oversees their training.

The Vangaurd
The first graduates, called the "Liberation Vanguards," were dressed in black T-shirts and hats, and some painted their faces black.

"My officer taught me the values of courage, sacrifice and love of jihad, as well as some battle tactics," said Radwan Wasfi, 15, whose black-painted face dripped with sweat after going through a drill. "I feel that I can free my energy in a good way. I can do for real what I do in video games."

Hamas' prime minister, Ismail Haniyeh, who attended the ceremony held at a soccer stadium, said he had ordered his education minister to establish a full-time military college to open next September.

"This is the generation that will bring victory to its people and will liberate their land," he told the audience.

Hamas, an Islamic militant group sworn to Israel's destruction, seized control of Gaza from the rival Fatah faction of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in 2007.

The group has survived repeated bouts of fighting against Israel, most recently an eight-day flareup of heavy violence in November in which Hamas fired more than 1,500 rockets into Israel. The fighting ended in an Egyptian-brokered cease-fire.




Repeated attempts by the rival Palestinian factions to reconcile have sputtered.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4336807,00.html

[Ball DeBeaver]

Shin Bet says it foiled 100 terror attacks in 2012
Ten Israelis killed in terrorist attacks in 2012, compared to 22 the previous year • Number of Jewish attacks against Palestinians decreases, but involvement of teens in these attacks increases • Dramatic increase in number of rockets fired from Gaza into Israel, most during Operation Pillar of Defense.

Lilach Shoval and Israel Hayom Staff


For first time in 40 years, no Israelis were killed in terrorist attacks in Judea and Samaria in 2012. |Photo credit: Lior Mizrahi

For first time in 40 years, no Israelis were killed in terrorist attacks in Judea and Samaria in 2012.


Israel's domestic spy agency, the Israel Security Agency (Shin Bet), says it thwarted 100 "serious" terror attacks in 2012, of which a third were planned kidnappings, the agency revealed in a report published Thursday. The Shin Bet said it arrested 2,300 terror suspects, which led to 2,170 indictments.


Half of the planned kidnapping attacks were planned roadside bombs followed by small-arms fire. Four planned suicide bombings were thwarted, as well as five infiltrations from the Sinai. Twenty kilograms of high-grade explosives and triggering mechanisms were caught — all smuggled through the border with Lebanon by Hezbollah. Command and control centers operated by Hamas in Ramallah and Hebron were uncovered. Hamas used the centers to rehabilitate its military infrastructure in the West Bank to carry out attacks, with an emphasis on kidnappings.


Some 10 million shekels to be used for terror financing were intercepted.


For the first time in four decades, no Israelis were killed in terrorist attacks in Judea and Samaria in 2012.


Despite the lack of deaths, there was an increase in the number of attacks in Judea and Samaria, from 320 in 2011 to 578 in 2012. The number of Molotov cocktail attacks in Judea and Samaria in 2012 rose 68 percent, compared to the previous year.


There were also no terror-related deaths in Jerusalem in 2012, but the number of attacks there also increased, from 191 in 2011 to 282 in 2012. The number of Molotov cocktail attacks in Jerusalem rose 31.5% in 2012, compared to the previous year.


Overall, 10 Israelis were killed in terrorist attacks in 2012, compared to 22 the previous year. Six of the deaths in 2012 were caused by rocket and mortar fire from the Gaza Strip.


Despite the decrease in terror-related deaths, the number of people wounded in terrorist attacks in Israel increased from 159 in 2011 to 309 in 2012. A vast majority (87%) of the latter injuries occurred during Operation Pillar of Defense in November. Some 232 people were wounded by rocket fire during Israel's eight-day offensive against terrorist groups in Gaza. Another 29 were wounded in the bombing of a Tel Aviv bus on the last day of the operation.


There was a dramatic increase in rocket fire from Gaza in 2012, with 2,327 rockets launched into Israel, compared to 419 in 2011.


The number of terror attacks against Israel originating in the Sinai Peninsula went up in 2012, as did the number of attempts by Hezbollah and Iran to strike Israeli targets overseas.


There was a prominent trend in 2012 of overseas attacks against targets with low security protection, such as local employees of Israeli diplomatic missions, members of the Jewish community and Israeli tourists. In July, five Israelis were killed in a bomb attack on their bus at the Burgas Airport in Bulgaria. In February, the wife of an Israeli Defense Ministry official was wounded when a bomb was attached to her vehicle in the Indian capital of New Delhi. On that same day, a bomb was discovered on the vehicle of a local employee of the Israeli Embassy in Tblisi, Georgia. Hezbollah and Iranian Revolutionary Guard operatives were also arrested in Thailand, Cyprus and Kenya in the midst of preparations for attacks against Israeli targets.


The number of attacks committed by far-right Jewish extremists against Palestinians fell by 40% in 2012 (18 in 2012, compared to 30 in 2011). There were three attacks by Jewish extremists against holy sites in 2012, a drop from seven in 2011. The number of cars set on fire by Jewish extremists also fell, from 21 in 2011 to 13 in 2012.


Jewish extremists were most active in the Binyamin area of Judea and Samaria, the Shin Bet report said.


Despite the overall decrease in attacks by far-right Jewish extremists against Palestinians in 2012, there was a significant increase in the involvement of minors in such attacks, including in the firebombing in August of a Palestinian taxi near Bat Ayin, in which six Palestinians were injured.


During 2012, 43 indictments were filed against far-right Jewish extremists. Some 18 were placed under house arrest and 29 administrative restraining orders against far-rightists were issued by the Israel Defense Forces Central Command.

http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=7170

[seafoid]

This reminded me of of our house Zionist

"When Cohen pressed Weiner on where Israel's eastern border is, he said something about the Jordan River. I have the tape, I have to dig that out. At this point a man in the audience shouted, Are you in Israel now? It was a New York crowd. A heckler from the other side attacked Brian Baird over his statement that the Israelis had bombed Al Quds hospital with white phosphorus. The heckler said that there were militants hiding themselves at the hospital. Baird (a contributor to our book on the Goldstone Report) shook his head in consternation. He said it was no credit to the heckler or the country he was supporting that he was actually defending the bombing of a hospital. "

[stew]

Since the 'ceasefire' after the last Israeli attack on Gaza 2 months ago...

In Gaza, at least...

4 people have been killed
77 people have been injured (16 of them children)
5 Israeli military incursions (not to mention regular fire into Gaza from Israeli border positions)
14 attacks on fishermen at sea

In the West Bank and East Jerusalem, at least...

6 people have been killed (3 of them children)
79 people have been injured (18 of them children)
531 Israeli military incursions
29 attacks by illegal (usually armed) Israeli settlers
2105 olive trees destroyed or damaged
18 houses or agricultural structures demolished
4 tented dwelling villages attacked with confiscation or damage to residential tents
1 new settlement outpost officially recognised by the Israeli state
3000+ new settlement units announced

And in all occupied Palestine together, at least...
438 Palestinians have been arrested (66 of them children, including one baby)
8 International and Israeli human rights defenders arrested

AND..... drum roll... inside Green Line Israel...

0 prosecutions of settlers or Israeli soldiers

(figures based on PCHR reports and media coverage)

GHD, what is your take on the destruction of the Jewish temple?

Some of those Palestinians are almost as bad as the Israeli's!

[Ball DeBeaver]

GHD doesn't reply to any of my posts. He seems to think I'll get bored and go away.

















































Yeah, like that's gonna happen.  Once the Israeli goverment starts investing some dosh for Hasbara in Europe, I think I'll apply for a wee job. 

[give her dixie]

Since the 'ceasefire' after the last Israeli attack on Gaza 2 months ago...

In Gaza, at least...

4 people have been killed
77 people have been injured (16 of them children)
5 Israeli military incursions (not to mention regular fire into Gaza from Israeli border positions)
14 attacks on fishermen at sea

In the West Bank and East Jerusalem, at least...

6 people have been killed (3 of them children)
79 people have been injured (18 of them children)
531 Israeli military incursions
29 attacks by illegal (usually armed) Israeli settlers
2105 olive trees destroyed or damaged
18 houses or agricultural structures demolished
4 tented dwelling villages attacked with confiscation or damage to residential tents
1 new settlement outpost officially recognised by the Israeli state
3000+ new settlement units announced

And in all occupied Palestine together, at least...
438 Palestinians have been arrested (66 of them children, including one baby)
8 International and Israeli human rights defenders arrested

AND..... drum roll... inside Green Line Israel...

0 prosecutions of settlers or Israeli soldiers

(figures based on PCHR reports and media coverage)

GHD, what is your take on the destruction of the Jewish temple?

What temple was destroyed?

Some of those Palestinians are almost as bad as the Israeli's!

Indeed they are. What I can't understand is how 130 "Terrorists" escaped prosecution !!!!

The Shin Bet said it arrested 2,300 terror suspects, which led to 2,170 indictments.

[seafoid]

BDB

You need to work on your rhetoric

I thought this
"We must do more under the rule of law to end intolerance, racism and anti-Semitism."
was quite a decent effort of yours.

It would be great if Israel could be run on the basis of decency and that intolerance had no place there.

But you know yourself what a cruel society it is.

And then when this is pointed out your only possible answer is whataboutery.

If you want to debate intolerance and hatred, how's this for a starter?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4336807,00.html