The Palestine thread

[Ball DeBeaver]

Two pieces of land, East and West of the state of Israel. Palestine, I think they call it. They could have a lot more land in 1947 if they had accepted the UN resolution, but choose to refuse and ended up losing a hell of a lot more. Not the sharpest tools in the box.
Please call again if you want to discuss it seriously.

So the state of Israel existed pre 1947?

Image the Palestinians not being happy with the UN making them concede land to a then non-existent Israeli nation, just to appease the British who'd already done a deal with Rothschild during WWI.

Now you're being silly. No one said modern day Israel existed pre 1947.

How did palestinians concede land they never owned? The land Israel got was part of the UN deal with the British, who governed the British mandate of palestine. Under the agreement the arabs (there was no such thing as a "palestinian" then) were to get nearly double the land they have now. The land Israel was allocated had a majority jewish population, so could hardly have been classed arab. What is now Jordan was also part of the British mandate of palestine, but I don't hear much about the palestinians calling for that to be given to them. Could it be that they just want rid of the jews? No, surely not. 

[seafoid]

Two pieces of land, East and West of the state of Israel. Palestine, I think they call it. They could have a lot more land in 1947 if they had accepted the UN resolution, but choose to refuse and ended up losing a hell of a lot more. Not the sharpest tools in the box.
Please call again if you want to discuss it seriously.

So the state of Israel existed pre 1947?

Image the Palestinians not being happy with the UN making them concede land to a then non-existent Israeli nation, just to appease the British who'd already done a deal with Rothschild during WWI.

Now you're being silly. No one said modern day Israel existed pre 1947.

How did palestinians concede land they never owned? The land Israel got was part of the UN deal with the British, who governed the British mandate of palestine. Under the agreement the arabs (there was no such thing as a "palestinian" then) were to get nearly double the land they have now. The land Israel was allocated had a majority jewish population, so could hardly have been classed arab. What is now Jordan was also part of the British mandate of palestine, but I don't hear muwhch about the palestinians calling for that to be given to them. Could it be that they just want ridwherz of the jews? No, surely not. 

Where did jews live before they ethnically cleansed palestine? Peres was born in poland. Sharon's people were russian. By your logic norn irn belongs to the protestants. It is the same settler colonialism.

[Ball DeBeaver]

Nick Griffin would be proud of you. None of them pesky foreigners wanted here, isn't that right....

Any way, a happy new year to you and yours.

[seafoid]

Nick Griffin would be proud of you. None of them pesky foreigners wanted here, isn't that right....

Any way, a happy new year to you and yours.

why don't you slur the GLBT community while you are at it? The jewish state won't live to see 2048. Apartheid will kill it. You can't polish the turd of apartheid. Only one EU country supported Israel and voted against recognition of Palestine at the UNGA last month. 2014 will be even worse for Israel.

[Ball DeBeaver]

The Palestinian Lie

[Emanuel A. Winston, Middle East Analyst & Commentator]
Summary ... Even before the British Mandate, it was the Jews who were known as the Palestinians, not the Arabs. It wasn't until 1964 that the Arabs claimed the name for a non-existent people. Unfortunately, the world chooses ignorance over facts, and so this non-existent people have suddenly became a people, complete with a non-existent history.


The Brits, during their Mandate, always called the Jews "Palestinians" and they called the Land "Palestine". Arabs were simply Arabs and the British made little attempt to maintain a census of which Arab State they came from.(1)

It wasn't until 1964 (before the 1967 Six Days War, when Israel liberated and united Judea, Samaria, the Golan Heights and Jerusalem) that Egypt (having lost two major wars to the small in number, lightly armed Jews of Israel) created the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization). Shortly afterwards, Yasir Arafat became the Terror Leader of the Century, taking over as head of the PLO.

The Arab League liked the idea of the PLO, an organization for all the mix of Muslim Arabs who had moved from all the surrounding Arab Muslim countries into [the] area of Eretz Yisrael for the work and health benefits the Jews had provided since the 1800s when they began their modern immigration back into their ancestral lands of two thousand years past.

So the Arab League and Arafat wanted to give them an identity. Arafat called them Falastinians, which is Palestinian with an accent [there is no "p" sound in the Arabic language-ed].

In brief, Arafat created a false identity for his non-people. It is an accepted custom that whatever words leave the mouth of an Muslim Arab, no matter how inaccurate or absurd, become [an] instant reality — both to the speaker and those who hear their claims.

So, Jewish Palestinians — long before the Arabs stole the name, had their name erased and stolen by Arab Muslim nations — except for what they make up to suit their needs. Remember the Jews published the Palestine Post newspaper, created and ran the Palestine Banks, etc.

History is irrelevant to Muslim Arabs except for what they make up to press their claims.

Imagine, nations like Great Britain, France, Russia and America who not only document their history but expect all other nations to recognize their documents and claim on history.

But, when it comes to exactitude of Arab Muslim claims and history, they simply accept without challenge — lest they insult the vaunted pride and honor of an Muslim Arab caught in a lie.

Not so the Muslim Arabs. They make up what they wish to make up but, they expect the revisionists of history to go along and accept their claims where and when no truth exists.

Presently, the West is discussing Islam and Muslim terror as if it just occurred recently, on December 25th, or May 1st. However, as desert dwellers, Arab Muslims raided, looted, raped and slaughtered their captives. This was also true whether their captives were "infidels" or Muslims from a different tribe.

"The San Remo Conference decided on April 24, 1920 to assign the Mandate [for Palestine] under the League of Nations to Britain. The terms of the Mandate were also discussed with the United States which was not a member of the League. An agreed text was confirmed by the Council of the League of Nations on July 24, 1922." Their declared purpose was "to establish in Palestine a national home for the Jewish people."

The San Remo Agreement and subsequent ratification by the League of Nations was never revoked and thus is still legally binding.

The killing of Jews by Arab Muslims began long before the official stamp of approval by the League of Nations, and later the United Nations in 1947 for the Jewish people in the Land called Israel on May 14, 1948. But, how quickly the nations accepted the name and false claims made by Yasir Arafat in 1964. How anxious they all were to join the lie that Arafat's Falastinians actually had a past and a history.

The only historical truth in depth was that the Muslim Arabs lived by the sword and terror was their history.

So, here we are today, with Falastinians backed by President Barack Hussein Obama claiming that Jerusalem must be divided and shared by the Jews with a non-people who have no history — let alone any existence or historical claim on Jerusalem as a Capital.

What nation would willingly divide their Capital because others demanded it?

Granted, conquerors don't ask, they just take.

Nations, however, have their own interests and bias which is why the Christian nations of Europe, themselves persecuting Jews, found no difficulty in joining the Arabs against the Jews in the Land of Israel. Keep in mind that the European nations considered Muslims as lowly pagans, not worth of occupying Jerusalem and thus mounted several Christian Crusades from 1095 to 1291 ce to 'rescue' Jerusalem from the Muslims — killing many Jews along their journeys to Jerusalem.

The European nations managed to overcome their aversion to Arab Muslims when it came to pursuing oil and persecuting the Jews of Israel whose capital of Jerusalem was 3,000 years old and eternal.

So, if it means sacrificing little Israel to a pagan people for whatever it brings in profits, oil or whatever, these nations will lie, cheat, steal, betray — all without conscience or feelings of guilt.

The lie is the rule — not the exception.


http://emetnews.org/analysis/the-palestinian-lie.php

[Denn Forever]

Does this mean that Jerusalem is the Capital of Palestine?

[seafoid]

BDB
Do you believe that erez Israel was empty before the first zionists arrived and that the Palestinians are all descendants of economic migrants who only started arriving post 1880? Because that is what your post above says. I.presume you stand by it.

[muppet]

Jaysus that is one serious amount of bile there Baldy.

The only historical truth in depth was that the Muslim Arabs lived by the sword and terror was their history.

Imagine anyone saying that about us or anyone else. Or God forbid, about the Jews.

So, here we are today, with Falastinians (sic) backed by President Barack Hussein Obama claiming that Jerusalem must be divided and shared by the Jews with a non-people who have no history — let alone any existence or historical claim on Jerusalem as a Capital.

Now I see where you get your 'little mites' thinking. Or as the vicious supremacist author above calls them, 'non-people who have no history'. It is really incredible that within one generation of the Holocaust you can have a Jew, of all people, spouting the similar hateful ideology. For a man who pretends to lecture the world on history, he doesn't seem remotely capable of learning anything from it.

[muppet]

The Brits, during their Mandate, always called the Jews "Palestinians" and they called the Land "Palestine". Arabs were simply Arabs and the British made little attempt to maintain a census of which Arab State they came from.(1)

Contrary to the above the British Census of 1931 recorded the follow stats for those living in Palestine who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2341903?uid=3738232&uid=2&uid=4&sid=21101486467683

Evidently 98% of Muslims didn't come from another Arab State, i.e. they were locals. This makes a farce of the entire premise of that article.

[seafoid]

It has a law which entitles any jew anywhere to immediate citizenship .It  is the  soi  disant Jewish  state . It shuts  down on saturdays . It only observes Jewish holidays. It only funds Jewish archaeology .  Half of its population is not  Jewish. Why are we supposed not to mention 'jew 'in the same breath  as israel ? It suits the settlers  in hebron  to paint  stars of David alongside graffiti like 'gas the arabs' but any use of the term jew on this board is antisemitic . BS.

Israel doesn't stop someone from moving there because they aren't Jewish. Positive discrimination is in use in many countries world wide. UK and Ireland observe only Christian holidays, with the vast majority of laws based on Christian beliefs. There are extremists in every country who will paint graffiti with their warped views, Israel is no different.

any jew gets a passport. 10000 east jerusalem palestinians lose residency rights in their own city every year. There are no muslim public holidays in israel. Almost half of the population of greater israel.is muslim. Israel is worse than norn irn was in the 1920s. At least the unionists never used white phosphorous. Comparing Israel to the uk is a joke. The uk doesn't denominate road access on the basis of religion.

Where do you get your population numbers from? Out of a population of 7,981,000 Israel is 75.4% jewish, muslim 20.6% with the rest made up of christians etc. Some roads are restricted to cars witisraeh non Israeli number plates, nothing to do with the drivers religion. This is a security measure to cut down the number of drive-by shootings, and has been a big success.

Israel ceased to exist on 6 june 1967. It was replaced by greater israel which covers the old Israel. Gaza and the West Bank. All of the land of Greater Israel is Jewish according to the Likud. Only half of the people who live in greater Israel are Jewish. 

[Ball DeBeaver]

How long have I been asleep? I could have sworn that before I dropped off that Judea and Samaria hadn't been annexed. But it's a nice thought. 
Are you saying that it's part of Israel, and the "west bank" isn't occupied? If it isn't occupied, then who is oppressing the poor wee palestinians? Come on now, you can't have it both ways.

[seafoid]

How long have I been asleep? I could have sworn that before I dropped off that Judea and Samaria hadn't been annexed. But it's a nice thought. 
Are you saying that it's part of Israel, and the "west bank" isn't occupied? If it isn't occupied, then who is oppressing the poor wee palestinians? Come on now, you can't have it both ways.

no need for annexation . Just divide the land into 3 non contiguous cantons, plant 800000 jewish settlers or one in 6 of all Israeli jews on the land and follow dayan's advice on what to do with the Palestinians. Treat them like dogs. Those who want to can leave. Get the Jewish religion behind the project and fob the goys off with shite about peace and democracy.  Onwards to apartheid.
Of course you can't even define Israel's borders. It doesn't even have a constitution.

[muppet]

How long have I been asleep? I could have sworn that before I dropped off that Judea and Samaria hadn't been annexed. But it's a nice thought. 
Are you saying that it's part of Israel, and the "west bank" isn't occupied? If it isn't occupied, then who is oppressing the poor wee palestinians? Come on now, you can't have it both ways.

no need for annexation . Just divide the land into 3 non contiguous cantons, plant 800000 jewish settlers or one in 6 of all Israeli jews on the land and follow dayan's advice on what to do with the Palestinians. Treat them like dogs. Those who want to can leave. Get the Jewish religion behind the project and fob the goys off with shite about peace and democracy.  Onwards to apartheid.
Of course you can't even define Israel's borders. It doesn't even have a constitution.

Now I understand what the Gathering is about.

[Ball DeBeaver]

Security Fence Along Egypt Border Complete





Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu attended a ceremony Wednesday to mark the completion of the security fence along the Egyptian border.


The construction of the fence – 230 kilometers in length – took two years, approximately half of the time that was originally planned, and cost approximately NIS 1.6 billion. It was put up to help deal with the problem of infiltrators sneaking into Israel through the lengthy border with Egypt.



Netanyahu said, "For seven months, not one infiltrator has reached Israel's cities. Just as we have stopped infiltration into Israel's cities, so too will we succeed in the next mission – repatriating the tens of thousands of infiltrators in Israel to their countries of origin. We have already begun to do so. I have appointed Hagai Hadas to deal with the issue and we can already see results of his efforts. We also need to complete the work on the country's other borders."

The Prime Minister told those in charge of the project, "This is a great achievement. You did the impossible. I would like to convey to you the gratitude of all Israelis."

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/258923

One down.

[Lar Naparka]

BDB,
You mentioned to an earlier reply to me that the Israelis feel the weight of international opinion is largely against them; they have a siege mentality (or something to that effect.)
Undoubtedly, the former is true.
I believe that the Jewish struggle to establish a state was widely supported by people all over the world in the aftermath of WWII. Jews had built up an enormous fund of goodwill, arising out of sympathy people everywhere felt for them as the true extent of the atrocities they suffered at the hands of Hitler and Stalin became evident.
This is what my father told me and others of his generation said the same and I see no reason to doubt what I was told.
County Mayo at any rate, backed the Jewish attempts to establish a homeland of their own!
I think it's equally fair to say that most, if not all, of this sympathy has now disappeared.
From what I can gather, this in the main is due to the Israeli policy of establishing settlements on disputed territories.
There are other reasons of course but this is a central issue and it's  one with which Irish people can readily identify. Forceful eviction and being dumped on the roadside was an all too common occurrence down the ages for our ancestors.
I'd like to have your thoughts on the subject.
Do you feel that all of those forceful occupations are legal and justified?
Is the Israeli agenda  in this case being driven by religious zealots or is it considered government policy?
Do you agree that this encroachment on lands regarded as Palestinian by most of the international community is a reason for the loss of sympathy and support?
Finally, have you any idea of the extent to which the Israelis intend to go when establishing those settlements? In other words, what is the minimum amount of territory they are prepared to leave in Palestinian hands?
Once again, my questions are genuine and I'd very much like to find out what your  opinions on the subject may be.