Removal of Gaza flag in Croke Park!

[dferg]

Witty retort.  You could argue that about anything that is ever written.


http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Albert_Einstein#The_world_is_a_dangerous_place

The world is a dangerous place[edit]
The anonymous tip above about the source of the quote proved to be true.

The "Tribute to Pablo Casals" was solicited for and appeared in the book Conversations avec Pablo Casals: souvenirs et opinions d'un musicien by José María Corredor (1954). The book was translated into many languages including German, Gespräche mit Casals (1954), and English, Conversations with Casals (1957).

The original text from Einstein (Einstein Archive Catalog #34-347), and as it appeared in the German edition (emphasis added):

Die Wertschätzung Pablo Casals' als großen Künstler braucht fürwahr nicht auf mich zu warten, denn hierin herrscht Einstimmigkeit unter den Auguren. Was ich aber an ihm besonders bewundere, ist seine charaktervolle Haltung nicht nur gegen die Unterdrücker seines Volkes, sondern auch gegen alle diejenigen Opportunisten, die immer bereit sind, mit dem Teufel zu paktieren. Er hat klar erkannt, daß die Welt mehr bedroht ist durch die, welche das Übel dulden oder ihm Vorschub leisten, als durch die Übeltäter selbst.


In the English edition:

It is certainly unnecessary to await my voice in acclaiming Pablo Casals as a very great artist, since all who are qualified to speak are unanimous on this subject. What I particularly admire in him is the firm stand he has taken, not only against the oppressors of his countrymen, but also against those opportunists who are always ready to compromise with the Devil. He perceives very clearly that the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it.

Variants:

The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.
The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
—KHirsch 15:38, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

[thewobbler]

But I am not a campaigner!  Just 1 individual who has realised the protests on the streets are being ignored, and to be fair I didn't bring a Palestinian flag last week.  But when I saw what happened I give my self a kick up the ass.  I'm not telling you to bring any flag.  I simply asked that if you were bothered by the events in Gaza and were going on Saturday to bring one along in order to illustrate peoples disgust.  You on the other hand are telling me that there is no place in Croke Park for my feelings or the feelings of many like me.  Seriously??? Newsflash, If I buy my ticket to get into headquarters I couldn't give a damn about your sensitivities to be honest.  You don't like it or if it reminds you of real life (boo hoo) then just look away!  But you have no right to tell anyone where or where they cannot demonstrate in a democracy.  Thats what this is right???

The GAA is a democracy and Croke Park is a private property.

As with all democracies, we have elected representatives whose role is to lead, guide and even enforce where necessary. The will of those representatives is that the we do not use our games or stadia for protests or demonstrations.

As with all private properties, the owner has the right to set acceptable levels of conduct for entrance.

Is this a catch 22 for you? Or can you simply pick and choose which democratic values you will adhere to?

[Syferus]

Not waving a flag at a GAA match isn't equal to doing nothing. I don't see what relevance that quote has with this situation.

[deiseach]

Witty retort.  You could argue that about anything that is ever written.

Not true. You've provided a pretty convincing source for that quote, so fair play.

[whitey]

I'm not into politics at all but I certainly disagree with what's happening over there and I'd support anything that would stop it but any rallies or support should be kept away from inside of any sports grounds. I want to see plenty of Armagh flags and I still grin at the tongue and cheek flag from the Garvaghy Rd men on tour but that's as far as it should go and all other flags and emblems should be kept for another day for a rally or protest...

+1

No you wouldn't support anything that was happening to stop it as you have an issue with an innocent flag in Croke Park!  So how would you support anything when you have a problem with this? So stop being disingenuous and just tell the truth, people just don't care!  I'll accept that but don't use this sport is apolitical nonsense - it doesn't make sense considering the majority of people in the country are outraged by this.  Just out of curiosity, why is it such a problem if a flag opposing the slaughter of innocence is taken into Croke Park?  Explain why those people who want to are in the wrong?

Aoise...contrary to what most posters on here think.....there are 2 sides to this conflict

The mere suggestion of a dissenting show of solidarity for the Israeli side was met with an "Id have a word in their ear"  comment from a pro Palestinian supporter.

In fairness he did follow up and say he would be non confrontational, BUT I think any fair minded person could see this cpuld spiral out of control very quickly

[Sidney]

Aoise...contrary to what most posters on here think.....there are 2 sides to this conflict

There are two sides to it in the way there were two sides to the Apartheid struggle in South Africa, I guess.

[Aoise]

But I am not a campaigner!  Just 1 individual who has realised the protests on the streets are being ignored, and to be fair I didn't bring a Palestinian flag last week.  But when I saw what happened I give my self a kick up the ass.  I'm not telling you to bring any flag.  I simply asked that if you were bothered by the events in Gaza and were going on Saturday to bring one along in order to illustrate peoples disgust.  You on the other hand are telling me that there is no place in Croke Park for my feelings or the feelings of many like me.  Seriously??? Newsflash, If I buy my ticket to get into headquarters I couldn't give a damn about your sensitivities to be honest.  You don't like it or if it reminds you of real life (boo hoo) then just look away!  But you have no right to tell anyone where or where they cannot demonstrate in a democracy.  Thats what this is right???

The GAA is a democracy and Croke Park is a private property.

As with all democracies, we have elected representatives whose role is to lead, guide and even enforce where necessary. The will of those representatives is that the we do not use our games or stadia for protests or demonstrations.

As with all private properties, the owner has the right to set acceptable levels of conduct for entrance.

Is this a catch 22 for you? Or can you simply pick and choose which democratic values you will adhere to?

So who owns Croke Park?  I didn't get the memo that said the GAA had suddenly gone capitalist on the very people who make up the organisation?

[Aoise]

I'm not into politics at all but I certainly disagree with what's happening over there and I'd support anything that would stop it but any rallies or support should be kept away from inside of any sports grounds. I want to see plenty of Armagh flags and I still grin at the tongue and cheek flag from the Garvaghy Rd men on tour but that's as far as it should go and all other flags and emblems should be kept for another day for a rally or protest...

+1

No you wouldn't support anything that was happening to stop it as you have an issue with an innocent flag in Croke Park!  So how would you support anything when you have a problem with this? So stop being disingenuous and just tell the truth, people just don't care!  I'll accept that but don't use this sport is apolitical nonsense - it doesn't make sense considering the majority of people in the country are outraged by this.  Just out of curiosity, why is it such a problem if a flag opposing the slaughter of innocence is taken into Croke Park?  Explain why those people who want to are in the wrong?

Aoise...contrary to what most posters on here think.....there are 2 sides to this conflict

The mere suggestion of a dissenting show of solidarity for the Israeli side was met with an "Id have a word in their ear"  comment from a pro Palestinian supporter.

In fairness he did follow up and say he would be non confrontational, BUT I think any fair minded person could see this cpuld spiral out of control very quickly

You are right, there are 2 sides Whitey.  One that is the fourth biggest military power in the world, the other who are getting slaughtered on a daily basis.  How in the name of God could this spiral out of control?  This is a humanitarian issue, why would someone get offended at anyone showing  support for people who are being killed?  I just don't get it!  I thought that at least Irish people could show that regardless of the contextual history in Palestine, that what is happening is wrong - pure and simple!  Do you think what is happening to the people of Gaza is right?

[whitey]

I'm not into politics at all but I certainly disagree with what's happening over there and I'd support anything that would stop it but any rallies or support should be kept away from inside of any sports grounds. I want to see plenty of Armagh flags and I still grin at the tongue and cheek flag from the Garvaghy Rd men on tour but that's as far as it should go and all other flags and emblems should be kept for another day for a rally or protest...

+1

No you wouldn't support anything that was happening to stop it as you have an issue with an innocent flag in Croke Park!  So how would you support anything when you have a problem with this? So stop being disingenuous and just tell the truth, people just don't care!  I'll accept that but don't use this sport is apolitical nonsense - it doesn't make sense considering the majority of people in the country are outraged by this.  Just out of curiosity, why is it such a problem if a flag opposing the slaughter of innocence is taken into Croke Park?  Explain why those people who want to are in the wrong?

Aoise...contrary to what most posters on here think.....there are 2 sides to this conflict

The mere suggestion of a dissenting show of solidarity for the Israeli side was met with an "Id have a word in their ear"  comment from a pro Palestinian supporter.

In fairness he did follow up and say he would be non confrontational, BUT I think any fair minded person could see this cpuld spiral out of control very quickly

You are right, there are 2 sides Whitey.  One that is the fourth biggest military power in the world, the other who are getting slaughtered on a daily basis.  How in the name of God could this spiral out of control?  This is a humanitarian issue, why would someone get offended at anyone showing  support for people who are being killed?  I just don't get it!  I thought that at least Irish people could show that regardless of the contextual history in Palestine, that what is happening is wrong - pure and simple!  Do you think what is happening to the people of Gaza is right?

Aoise.....I have already had more than enough to say on the other thread so let's keep this about the flags. Here's my point-(a) what happens if a counter demonstrations takes place?  (It's unlikely but possible) (b) what happens if someone shows up with an Hamas flag or a Hezbollah flag as happened within the last week at other demonstrations Can you imagine the damage that would do to the GAA worldwide?

[Rossfan]

[So who owns Croke Park?  I didn't get the memo that said the GAA had suddenly gone capitalist on the very people who make up the organisation?

I doubt if everyone who attends a match in Croke Park is a member of the GAA.

[Aoise]

I'm not into politics at all but I certainly disagree with what's happening over there and I'd support anything that would stop it but any rallies or support should be kept away from inside of any sports grounds. I want to see plenty of Armagh flags and I still grin at the tongue and cheek flag from the Garvaghy Rd men on tour but that's as far as it should go and all other flags and emblems should be kept for another day for a rally or protest...

+1

No you wouldn't support anything that was happening to stop it as you have an issue with an innocent flag in Croke Park!  So how would you support anything when you have a problem with this? So stop being disingenuous and just tell the truth, people just don't care!  I'll accept that but don't use this sport is apolitical nonsense - it doesn't make sense considering the majority of people in the country are outraged by this.  Just out of curiosity, why is it such a problem if a flag opposing the slaughter of innocence is taken into Croke Park?  Explain why those people who want to are in the wrong?

Aoise...contrary to what most posters on here think.....there are 2 sides to this conflict

The mere suggestion of a dissenting show of solidarity for the Israeli side was met with an "Id have a word in their ear"  comment from a pro Palestinian supporter.

In fairness he did follow up and say he would be non confrontational, BUT I think any fair minded person could see this cpuld spiral out of control very quickly

You are right, there are 2 sides Whitey.  One that is the fourth biggest military power in the world, the other who are getting slaughtered on a daily basis.  How in the name of God could this spiral out of control?  This is a humanitarian issue, why would someone get offended at anyone showing  support for people who are being killed?  I just don't get it!  I thought that at least Irish people could show that regardless of the contextual history in Palestine, that what is happening is wrong - pure and simple!  Do you think what is happening to the people of Gaza is right?

Aoise.....I have already had more than enough to say on the other thread so let's keep this about the flags. Here's my point-(a) what happens if a counter demonstrations takes place?  (It's unlikely but possible) (b) what happens if someone shows up with an Hamas flag or a Hezbollah flag as happened within the last week at other demonstrations Can you imagine the damage that would do to the GAA worldwide?

Ok Whitey.
(a) What is the likelihood of any counter demonstration happening on this issue?  I'm not even calling for anything other than a flag to be flown in our seats as a message of solidarity, thats it! Don't dramatise what is simply a small statement.

(b) If someone showed up with a Hamas flag or a Hezbollah flag, what do you think is going to happen?  Do not equate those with the flag of Palestine it is a separate issue altogether and if anyone did turn up with one, I'm sure people are adult enough to make their own mind up on the person who brought it.  It certainly would not damage the GAA the way you are speaking off - Dramatising again!

You seem very scared of something, yet I do not know what.  How else do people make their voices heard on these issues?  The Government doesn't ask us, we get a say on who represents us at elections but what do they do? Carry on regardless of people's personal feelings on certain issues.  People have been calling for the Dail to be recalled over this issue, and they just ignore it.  If you feel strongly about something - stand up for it.  My only conclusion is that people are so indifferent to human suffering that they try to make it about them and their own sensitivities.  Its easy to say 'ach well sure its nothing to do with us'.  I hope to God that if our own grandchildren are ever in any war situation, that people will not take your stance because they will be screwed - no disrespect to you, you're entitled to your stance on this.  I just think Ireland has lost a wee bit of its soul and courage more's the pity!

[Hardy]

It's fairly simple. What do you think would happen if the GAA set a precedent of allowing political demonstrations, however worthy the cause in this particular case? How, then could they decide in any future event that another demonstration, however unworthy, should be prevented? Conduct a poll of the attendance on the particular day?

It's clearly reasonable that the GAA executive, as mandated either by Congress or by assumed responsibility for such decision by virtue of their management role, is making a reasonable decision that the only sensible course of action is to ban all political demonstrations. If you disagree, put a motion on the agenda for your next club AGM. But what would it say? All demonstrations are allowed? Only pro-Palestinian ones? What about pro-Ukrainian ones? What about Syria?

Alternatively, organise a demonstration OUTSIDE Croke Park next Sunday against Israeli barbarity in Gaza. I'd join you if I could make it.

[Aoise]

It's fairly simple. What do you think would happen if the GAA set a precedent of allowing political demonstrations, however worthy the cause in this particular case? How, then could they decide in any future event that another demonstration, however unworthy, should be prevented? Conduct a poll of the attendance on the particular day?

It's clearly reasonable that the GAA executive, as mandated either by Congress or by assumed responsibility for such decision by virtue of their management role, is making a reasonable decision that the only sensible course of action is to ban all political demonstrations. If you disagree, put a motion on the agenda for your next club AGM. But what would it say? All demonstrations are allowed? Only pro-Palestinian ones? What about pro-Ukrainian ones? What about Syria?

Alternatively, organise a demonstration OUTSIDE Croke Park next Sunday against Israeli barbarity in Gaza. I'd join you if I could make it.

Hardy I know what you're saying.  However, and maybe this is where we disagree but I happen to think that Croke Park is the people's park.  Regardless of management elites, the GAA is not an elite organisation (yet).  I have no problem if someone wants to make their voice heard on an issue - do so. If I don't agree with it, I just don't fly that flag, its simple.  Are we not mature enough as a nation to allow freedom of expression?  Why would you want to ban that?  Its like saying well sure everyone in the GAA should just remain neutral at all times - we are all human beings with opinions.  Thats like saying Donal Og Cusack should not have came out in defense of his homosexuality.  Why?  Are we all so delicate?

[haranguerer]

This is a humanitarian cause, not a political one

[whitey]

Aoise....I appreciate being able to have an adult dialogue with you on this. Obviously were viewing it through different lenses. Regardless , good luck with it however it turns out