Sean Brady Steps Down

[theskull1]

But the Catholic Church was founded by God

Any links?

Hurry up Tony

[Myles Na G.]

We messed up? Surely if God created us, he's the one who messed up, since he created something capable of sin? What's more, even as he was in the act of creating us, he must've known that he was creating a sinful creature, since he's omniscient. And if he knew that he was creating a sinful creature, he also knew that he was creating many of us to burn in eternal hell fire, no? And if he knew that, why did he continue? Why create mankind when he must've known that many of his 'children' would end up in hell?

Being all knowing and all controlling are two different things Myles. God created us. He didn't create us to be evil or to sin. That's on us. We have the ability (through free will) to choose Him or reject Him. To love him sincerely or out of fear or not at all. Without free will we would just be machines. Not humans. Even Satan cannot make us sin - he tempts us to sin but the choice is always ours.

Should God not have bothered at all knowing that some people would choose sin and choose hell? Is that what you are asking?

Do you know why God created the world? Or what the Church teaches or what Catholics believe?
That the world was created to show every aspect of God's character fully. His loving kindness, His creative Power, His justice, His mercy, His wrath...

I sometimes think you ask the questions without thinking about them and what the response might be.

If he knows all things, he created us in the full knowledge that he was creating a flawed creature. He created us knowing that many of us were destined for eternal punishment. So why bother? If I leave a group of 6 year olds in a room containing bowls of sweets and chocolates, after telling them not to eat any, who's to blame if some of the kids can't resist temptation and end up eating a sweet or two? I could say that the kids have free will and chose to disobey me, but I don't think many people would support me if I decided to inflict a catastrophic punishment on those kids who 'sinned'.

You are over simplifying it for your own argument.  God isn't inflicting catastrophic punishment on 6 year-old's for eating sweets. We have multiple opportunities in our life to repent - until our last breath. There are many sins and they aren't all as appealing as a bowl of sweets - unless you are one of the few who enjoy killing.....

I'm not sure I am over simplifying things by using an adult / child analogy. In fact, I'm possibly understating things, given that the gap between ourselves and the creator of the cosmos is far greater than the intellectual distance between an adult and a child. I don't think I'm over stating things in terms of proportionality, either. Any sense of injustice at the idea of me severely punishing a 6 year old is nothing compared to the notion of an all powerful, all knowing being inflicting eternal torment on mere mortals. As for repentance - if anyone has cause to repent, it surely has to be the architect of this flawed creation, the being who created mankind, gave him free will, then decided to punish him when he exercised it.

[T Fearon]

I do also subscribe to the theories that God has an elect and predestination.Sadly many will deny the existence of God for all their days and pay a heavy price.God surely knows the ultimate fate of every man and woman prior to their birth and I thank him for his benevolence to me personally in this regard.

Muppet Jesus said to Peter you are the rock upon whom I will build by church,so Peter was effectively the first Pope and the present Pope can trace a direct lineage to him,so for this reason the Catholic Church can claim him as its founder

[LCohen]

the immaculate conception is as credible as the resurrection,and I believe in both.

So you don't believe that Jesus Christ fulfils the prophecy of coming from the House of David?

I happen to believe a man died on the cross and Rose again 3 days later (if this was a fairytale it has been perpetuated for a hell of a long time), that is reason enough for me to believe.

Do you belive in Adam & Eve (this is a genuine & serious question)?

Go on Tony - any chance of an answer?

Yes/No would be good but certainly some form of an answer that leaves the reader in no doubt that you do/don't belive in the Line of David prophecy being fulfilled and separately about the Adam & Eve story?

[LCohen]

I do also subscribe to the theories that God has an elect and predestination.Sadly many will deny the existence of God for all their days and pay a heavy price.God surely knows the ultimate fate of every man and woman prior to their birth and I thank him for his benevolence to me personally in this regard.

Muppet Jesus said to Peter you are the rock upon whom I will build by church,so Peter was effectively the first Pope and the present Pope can trace a direct lineage to him,so for this reason the Catholic Church can claim him as its founder

Explain this heavy price for non-belief? You contend that god exists and will sit in judgement at the end of our early life but are you saying that God will value belief higher than say kindness or charity? If so why?

What is the veidence of what Jesus said to whom?

[T Fearon]

That's the dilemma that makes faith what it is,there is no evidence to satisfy doubters.Do you not believe a man died on the cross and rose again? That is the core evidence to prove the existence of God

[Myles Na G.]

I do also subscribe to the theories that God has an elect and predestination.Sadly many will deny the existence of God for all their days and pay a heavy price.God surely knows the ultimate fate of every man and woman prior to their birth and I thank him for his benevolence to me personally in this regard.

Muppet Jesus said to Peter you are the rock upon whom I will build by church,so Peter was effectively the first Pope and the present Pope can trace a direct lineage to him,so for this reason the Catholic Church can claim him as its founder

Predestination? So we don't have free will, then? And the fact that God 'knows the ultimate fate of every man and woman prior to their birth' is surely evidence of his supreme cruelty, is it not? What sort of being creates a sentient creature knowing that this creature is destined for eternal torture?

[Zip Code]

I do also subscribe to the theories that God has an elect and predestination.Sadly many will deny the existence of God for all their days and pay a heavy price.God surely knows the ultimate fate of every man and woman prior to their birth and I thank him for his benevolence to me personally in this regard.

Muppet Jesus said to Peter you are the rock upon whom I will build by church,so Peter was effectively the first Pope and the present Pope can trace a direct lineage to him,so for this reason the Catholic Church can claim him as its founder

Again any links, also and please answer what about those billions who believe in a different God than your God - are they fooked as well?

[Eamonnca1]

That's the dilemma that makes faith what it is,there is no evidence to satisfy doubters.Do you not believe a man died on the cross and rose again? That is the core evidence to prove the existence of God

Evidence? If that's "evidence" (big if), and belief in a deity is based on evidence, what's all this business about faith?

[muppet]

I do also subscribe to the theories that God has an elect and predestination.Sadly many will deny the existence of God for all their days and pay a heavy price.God surely knows the ultimate fate of every man and woman prior to their birth and I thank him for his benevolence to me personally in this regard.

Muppet Jesus said to Peter you are the rock upon whom I will build by church,so Peter was effectively the first Pope and the present Pope can trace a direct lineage to him,so for this reason the Catholic Church can claim him as its founder

Does everyone who died before Jesus 'pay a heavy price'? This seems terribly unfair doesn't it?

The 'direct line' from Peter is a shambles, containing many Popes who were considered anti-Christs, is at best debatable who should be on it and features men who broke every rule in the Church's book. The validity of the Archbishop of Rome as leader is also somewhat  debatable, but we have talked about that before. You seem to know nothing of the subject, but Iceman does. You are probably better leaving that subject to him.

[johnneycool]

That's the dilemma that makes faith what it is,there is no evidence to satisfy doubters.Do you not believe a man died on the cross and rose again? That is the core evidence to prove the existence of God

Evidence? If that's "evidence" (big if), and belief in a deity is based on evidence, what's all this business about faith?

Whilst Tony's quote is contradictory to say the least, but judging by his other posts Tony doesn't need evidence as he has faith, which is OK if you don't think too much about things.

[T Fearon]

Very simply I believe in an afterlife and a God who will judge and everyone will get what they deserve.

[theskull1]

Very simply I believe in an afterlife and a God who will judge and everyone will get what they deserve.

Do you believe every story you were told as a child is true Tony? Quite simply you were indoctrinated as a child and you've committed too much to your faith at this stage to question it. No investigation, no doubt. You just know it to be true. 

Heres a very good short audio lecture by New Testament Scholar Bart Erhmann. Well worth a listen
https://archive.org/details/HeynsLectureSeriesBartEhrman-MisquotingJesus

[T Fearon]

I said that is my core belief,I don't see the need to get bogged down in theological doctrinal.minutiae.Simply believe inHod,keep the commandments ,love your neighbour.

[theskull1]

I don't see the need to get bogged down in theological doctrinal.minutiae.

Surely your core beliefs came from somewhere? Your leaving yourself open to be exploited if your not prepared to look at the evidence/detail. Maybe ignorance is bliss