Sean Brady Steps Down

[Zip Code]

The mystery's of faith - you can't knock them. 

[Lar Naparka]

I have no problem with secularism,each to their own,but the clerical abuse is not driving secularism.

Your last comment is totally wrong.I have said time and again the church was wrong to try and protect its reputation 40 years ago by trying to manage this issue in house when it was not in any way experienced or equipped to do so effectively.But you would concede that lessons have been learned and apologies offered.

Tony, I don't want to muck up your day for you but I'd really like to know why you can state categorically that child abuse is not driving secularism.
And while you''r eat it, maybe you could explain what "secularism" means to you.
I believe it means the separation of church and state and that no religion should be held in higher regard than any other.
AS a matter of fact, it ties in nicely with the teachings of Jesus. If he said something, aren't you supposed to accept it as fact?
GO check for yourself. Try Mark 12:17 and you'll see what I mean.
(Y'know "Render unto Caesar .... ")
BTW, who said clerical abuse began only 40 years ago? Brendan Smyth was abusing kids as far back as the late 40s.  Do you think clerical abuse started with Smyth?
According to "The Nation," the oldest weekly magazine in the US;

"Documents going back to the fourth century show that the Church was aware of a pedophilia problem."
What do you think? Is it the usual, "Lies, all lies!"

[AZOffaly]

Clerical Abuse is absolutely contributing to the falling attendences at mass. I know for a fact that some people are saying 'Why should I listen to a priest lecturing about morality and sin, when they were covering up some of the worst sins and immorality for years'?

There are a number of factors, obviously, but it's head in the sand stuff to say that the scandal of Clerical abuse of children has not had an impact on people's devotion to the church. (Not necessarily God by the way).

[muppet]

Clerical Abuse is absolutely contributing to the falling attendences at mass. I know for a fact that some people are saying 'Why should I listen to a priest lecturing about morality and sin, when they were covering up some of the worst sins and immorality for years'?

There are a number of factors, obviously, but it's head in the sand stuff to say that the scandal of Clerical abuse of children has not had an impact on people's devotion to the church. (Not necessarily God by the way).

This is an important point in all of this. To Tony, anyone who thinks like this is anti-Catholic, which is an obvious cover for a lack of a reasonable response.

[foxcommander]

but the clerical abuse is not driving secularism.

Correct - it's a combination of laziness / wealth / and the notion that you are invincible.

Who needs a god when you can drive to the pub on a sunday in your big feck-off SUV you couldn't really afford to watch the Man Utd game on Sky Sports.

Or a realisation that they whole thing is a load of bollocks.

That's kinda arrogant. You don't know that.

[foxcommander]

Clerical Abuse is absolutely contributing to the falling attendences at mass. I know for a fact that some people are saying 'Why should I listen to a priest lecturing about morality and sin, when they were covering up some of the worst sins and immorality for years'?

There are a number of factors, obviously, but it's head in the sand stuff to say that the scandal of Clerical abuse of children has not had an impact on people's devotion to the church. (Not necessarily God by the way).

Only people who I've ever heard that from are the trendy brigade looking for excuses to condemn.

[Zip Code]

but the clerical abuse is not driving secularism.

Correct - it's a combination of laziness / wealth / and the notion that you are invincible.

Who needs a god when you can drive to the pub on a sunday in your big feck-off SUV you couldn't really afford to watch the Man Utd game on Sky Sports.

Or a realisation that they whole thing is a load of bollocks.

That's kinda arrogant. You don't know that.

And you don't know it's not.

[Zip Code]

Clerical Abuse is absolutely contributing to the falling attendences at mass. I know for a fact that some people are saying 'Why should I listen to a priest lecturing about morality and sin, when they were covering up some of the worst sins and immorality for years'?

There are a number of factors, obviously, but it's head in the sand stuff to say that the scandal of Clerical abuse of children has not had an impact on people's devotion to the church. (Not necessarily God by the way).

Only people who I've ever heard that from are the trendy brigade looking for excuses to condemn.

Jesus wept so anyone who has been put off Catholicism because of the vile child abuse and subsequent cover up within the organisation is only doing it to be trendy - and you have the nerve to say I am arrogant. 

[foxcommander]

Clerical Abuse is absolutely contributing to the falling attendences at mass. I know for a fact that some people are saying 'Why should I listen to a priest lecturing about morality and sin, when they were covering up some of the worst sins and immorality for years'?

There are a number of factors, obviously, but it's head in the sand stuff to say that the scandal of Clerical abuse of children has not had an impact on people's devotion to the church. (Not necessarily God by the way).

Only people who I've ever heard that from are the trendy brigade looking for excuses to condemn.

Jesus wept so anyone who has been put off Catholicism because of the vile child abuse and subsequent cover up within the organisation is only doing it to be trendy - and you have the nerve to say I am arrogant.

The trendy brigade already have no affiliation to the church (the secular lot). They left the church a long long time ago but still like to make their voices heard on any church subject as it suits their agenda.

fyi - I didn't say you were arrogant, I meant that it's an arrogant way to think.

[Zip Code]

You have a nice an arrogant way to think yourself, that is some bubble you have placed everyone who condemns the church in, a trendy brigade who already have no affiliation to the church.  It's people like yourself chewing the alter rails and not able to see the woods for the trees that will ensure others leave the church.

[imtommygunn]

Clerical Abuse is absolutely contributing to the falling attendences at mass. I know for a fact that some people are saying 'Why should I listen to a priest lecturing about morality and sin, when they were covering up some of the worst sins and immorality for years'?

There are a number of factors, obviously, but it's head in the sand stuff to say that the scandal of Clerical abuse of children has not had an impact on people's devotion to the church. (Not necessarily God by the way).

Only people who I've ever heard that from are the trendy brigade looking for excuses to condemn.

Jesus wept so anyone who has been put off Catholicism because of the vile child abuse and subsequent cover up within the organisation is only doing it to be trendy - and you have the nerve to say I am arrogant.

The trendy brigade already have no affiliation to the church (the secular lot). They left the church a long long time ago but still like to make their voices heard on any church subject as it suits their agenda.

fyi - I didn't say you were arrogant, I meant that it's an arrogant way to think.

I know one person in particular who was devout and the last scandal to hit the church has made him a lot less devout and he rarely goes now. This is 40 years later. It is not only people who are anti religion who feel that way.

It's very easy to say the trendy brigade just say that but that is not the case. That one is a specific example of a person who I know pretty well. There are a few others who I wouldn't know quite so well but feel like that.

[T Fearon]

Secularism would have expanded with or without clerical abuse.Anyone who abandons their faith due to.clerical abuse hasn't thought it through.The Church is more about theology rather than flawed people.

[T Fearon]

Lar, my understanding of secularism is the abandonment of religion in favour of exclusively worldly matters.I have no problem with separation of Church and State ,though the Church has a right to have its voice heard.

[imtommygunn]

Secularism would have expanded with or without clerical abuse.Anyone who abandons their faith due to.clerical abuse hasn't thought it through.The Church is more about theology rather than flawed people.

That makes no sense. They haven't thought it through applying the same logic as you apply - that is all.

[Zip Code]

Secularism would have expanded with or without clerical abuse.Anyone who abandons their faith due to.clerical abuse hasn't thought it through.The Church is more about theology rather than flawed people.

Cop yourself on - you don't have to chew the altar rails to have faith.  Now are you saying believers who don't go to mass will lose everything?  As Hardy says keep posting - you cover yourself and the Catholic church in glory with each new post.