Sean Brady Steps Down

[deiseach]

What you posted.

Yep  and you might as well go play handball against a haystack as trying to have a logical argument with him.
I started this topic with the hope that the discussion would move on to the aftermath of Brady's resignation.  What happens next?
Attacking Tony may help to lower blood pressure but it won't solve anything.
In the broader context, Brady was only a bit player also.
What about the Norbertine Order?
Smyth's superiors knew about his nefarious activities as far back as the late 40s but did nothing to stop him as he abused children everywhere he went. After he fled south, following his first conviction, his order continued to shield him until the RUC requested that he be extradited to the north to face charges.
Why has nobody from the Norbertine Order been brought to court to face charges. There's a wide selection to pick from.
What about DesmondConnell. the last Archbishop of Dublin?
He refused to co-operate with the gardai s until his successor threatened to bring civil charges against him unless he cooperated.
No mention of him being prosecuted but, IMO, he is at least as guilty as the abusers he tried to shield.
What about Brendan Comiskey and his predecessor as bishop of Ferns, Donal Herlihy and their failure to resort instances of child abuse to the authorities?

Ah, the list could go on and on but I'm feeling like Hardy right now and I know it's pointless to lose my  temper.
My point is that there are far bigger fish to fry than Tony Fearon. And the same goes for the laitcheko he's trying to defend.  Brady was only one of the very many who connived to put the welfare, as they saw it, of the church before the safety of children in their care.
So what happens next? .

What Tony sees.

Brady was only a bit player.

[T Fearon]

I apologise for my absence, I was celebrating my wedding anniversary in a magnificent Co Leitrim castle,while thanking God for his providence.

I was struck reading the glowing tributes paid to Sean Brady in the Irish News yesterday by all the main Protestant Church leaders (all of whom have worked with him politically and pastorally over the years and know the measure of the man),and it struck me that there is today no one more vitriolic in Irleand than lapsed Catholics.

It is once again comforting to know that this is the majority view of Sean Brady's long pastoral mission and the views of warped individuals on this thread represent an insignificant but nonetheless sad minority who cannot see beyond blind and irrational hatred.

[muppet]

I apologise for my absence, I was celebrating my wedding anniversary in a magnificent Co Leitrim castle,while thanking God for his providence.

I was struck reading the glowing tributes paid to Sean Brady in the Irish News yesterday by all the main Protestant Church leaders (all of whom have worked with him politically and pastorally over the years and know the measure of the man),and it struck me that there is today no one more vitriolic in Irleand than lapsed Catholics.

It is once again comforting to know that this is the majority view of Sean Brady's long pastoral mission and the views of warped individuals on this thread represent an insignificant but nonetheless sad minority who cannot see beyond blind and irrational hatred.

There is certainly one person more vitriolic.

[T Fearon]

You're views on Brady are way out of touch with the vast majority,including top Protestant clerics and the highly respected and experienced religious correspondent of the Belfast Telegraph. Go figure.

[imtommygunn]

Who are your views inline with Tony? Very few I'd imagine.

How do you know what the vast majority think? Is that what the vast majority think or what you think the vast majority think?

[Agent Orange]

It seems to me that Brady and the parents "assumed" Smyth would be dealt with.Now I'm saying if a Brady is guilty (and the vast majority of people on this thread think he was ) then the parents were similarly guilty in not following up.So if Brady is culpable so are the parents, that's my argument

Are you a parent yourself Tony?

I'll ask again Tony, in case you missed my question last time round.

[T Fearon]

I have seen no sustained vitriolic criticism of Sean Brady out with this Board, no protests about his continuation in office, a unanimous rousing reception by a nearly 10,000 strong crowd at last year's Armagh County Final and glowing tributes from Protestant Church Leaders and esteemed media commentators. I repose my case.

[muppet]

I have seen no sustained vitriolic criticism of Sean Brady out with this Board, no protests about his continuation in office, a unanimous rousing reception by a nearly 10,000 strong crowd at last year's Armagh County Final and glowing tributes from Protestant Church Leaders and esteemed media commentators. I repose my case.

Tony, I posted proof of your complete self delusion on this particular issue before.  You ignored it then and obviously will have to ignore it now (either that or admit your lunacy).

I strongly suspect Sean Brady would rather you stayed quiet instead of making such idiotic claims.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0614/132157-abuse/

The poll for The Irish Times found 76% believed Cardinal Sean Brady should resign, 15% believed he should not and 9% had no opinion.

The reality is it wouldn't matter if everyone Tony ever met wore a 'Brady should go' t-shrt, he would still claim to be in the majority.

[T Fearon]

Newspaper polls prove nothing,especially not Dublin 4 polls.I witnessed the acclaim from 10,000 people

[LCohen]

Newspaper polls prove nothing,especially not Dublin 4 polls.I witnessed the acclaim from 10,000 people

Tony wise up

I was at that game. The man was introduced and there was bit of cheer and a bit more applause. There were others introduced and there were cheers/applause. Most of the cheers were polite but most peolpe didn't bother making any noise at all.

There certainly was no ringing endorsement of the man, his role, his perfomance within that role or his record on the particular issue being discussed here.

It would be deceitful to pretend otherwise

[LCohen]

I apologise for my absence, I was celebrating my wedding anniversary in a magnificent Co Leitrim castle,while thanking God for his providence.

I was struck reading the glowing tributes paid to Sean Brady in the Irish News yesterday by all the main Protestant Church leaders (all of whom have worked with him politically and pastorally over the years and know the measure of the man),and it struck me that there is today no one more vitriolic in Irleand than lapsed Catholics.

It is once again comforting to know that this is the majority view of Sean Brady's long pastoral mission and the views of warped individuals on this thread represent an insignificant but nonetheless sad minority who cannot see beyond blind and irrational hatred.

Calling for action to be taken against child abusers and those who protected them could not be described as warped.

I missed your direct response to the below

I totally agree that the perpretrators of abuse are depraved. What is your view on those who do not commit the abuse but are confronted with compelling evidence of abuse and either a) say nothing, b) actively cover it up, c) act to leave the perpretrator in a position with access to children (say vulnerable children in one on one scenarios), d) move the pepretrator to a new position where this situation could arise, e) do nothing when its known that children are at risk from this type of perpetrator in this type of situation or f) presurise a victim or a family to keep quiet.

What about these people - are they depraved or what word would you use to decribe them?

When known offenders were packed off to continue their "holy orders" in Uruaquay or the Phillipines say - was that just plain racism and exposing "lesser" victims?

The church has 2 very real problems here. Firstly there is the abuse (and the shear level of it). But secondly there is (too early to say "was") the truly horrifc and completely immoral reaction to the abuse. Only the first can be blamed on the "depraved" abusers.

It would be impossible to argue that those involved in the latter are the ones to provide moral guidance

[LCohen]

Newspaper polls prove nothing,especially not Dublin 4 polls.I witnessed the acclaim from 10,000 people

Was it the Brothers Grimm who wrote "there's none so blind as those who will not see"?

It was somebody like that anyway

[LCohen]

Tony, would you support prison sentences for any individual who was aware of child abuse and did not report it to the appropriate public authorities?

[T Fearon]

But Brady wasn't aware of child abuse,he was involved in the preliminaries in which young children made allegations,unproven against a priest with whom Brady was unaquainted.He reported these allegations to his superiors.Now this is a totally different scenario to being aware if child abuse,to witnessing an act of child abuse, or a colleague telling you he is involved in child abuse.World of difference between hearing as yet unsubstantiated allegations of child abuse and catching someone in the act.

[LCohen]

But Brady wasn't aware of child abuse,he was involved in the preliminaries in which young children made allegations,unproven against a priest with whom Brady was unaquainted.He reported these allegations to his superiors.Now this is a totally different scenario to being aware if child abuse,to witnessing an act of child abuse, or a colleague telling you he is involved in child abuse.World of difference between hearing as yet unsubstantiated allegations of child abuse and catching someone in the act.

OK - on the first bit take Brady out of the equation and answer the question - should AN Other, when aware of child abuse report it to the appropriate public authorities and if they fail to do so should they go to prison?

You go on to describe 3 scenarios;
Being aware of allegations (from a victim) of child abuse
Witnessing an act of child abuse,
Hearing an admission of child abuse.

The senarios are different but the response in all 3 scenarios must include a report of the matter to the appropriate public authority where it can be investigated and the perpertrator is legally presumed innocent until proven guilty but the victims (and potential victims) are protected from the outset. No other position is defensible