Sean Brady Steps Down

[T Fearon]

I am on recod as saying the Catholic Church woefully mishandled child abuse.However if you go further back in time you will see slavery etc condoned and indeed facilitated by various Governments in the so called civilised world yet the contemporary governments of these countries are not pilloried on account of the mistakes, failings etc of their long distant predecessors.

Let's have an investigation in child abuse in comparable major institutions like the Catholic Church, ie inner circles in various Governments etc.

[easytiger95]

Pure whataboutery and misdirection. Sean Brady's actions are not in the distant past.

[T Fearon]

Well 1975 happened 39 years ago

[easytiger95]

Well slavery was abolished by the US in the 1860s, they were the last Western power to do so domestically.

That was your comparison

I am on recod as saying the Catholic Church woefully mishandled child abuse.However if you go further back in time you will see slavery etc condoned and indeed facilitated by various Governments in the so called civilised world yet the contemporary governments of these countries are not pilloried on account of the mistakes, failings etc of their long distant predecessors.

Let's have an investigation in child abuse in comparable major institutions like the Catholic Church, ie inner circles in various Governments etc.

39 years ago is a hell of a lot closer than 150.

Do just spend all day on the wind up? You must "work" for yourself, do you?

[easytiger95]

Oh sorry, I forgot

[muppet]

Well slavery was abolished by the US in the 1860s, they were the last Western power to do so domestically.

That was your comparison

I am on recod as saying the Catholic Church woefully mishandled child abuse.However if you go further back in time you will see slavery etc condoned and indeed facilitated by various Governments in the so called civilised world yet the contemporary governments of these countries are not pilloried on account of the mistakes, failings etc of their long distant predecessors.

Let's have an investigation in child abuse in comparable major institutions like the Catholic Church, ie inner circles in various Governments etc.

39 years ago is a hell of a lot closer than 150.

Do just spend all day on the wind up? You must "work" for yourself, do you?

He covered up his involvement until 2010. 8 years after football began.

[LCohen]

I am on recod as saying the Catholic Church woefully mishandled child abuse.However if you go further back in time you will see slavery etc condoned and indeed facilitated by various Governments in the so called civilised world yet the contemporary governments of these countries are not pilloried on account of the mistakes, failings etc of their long distant predecessors.

Let's have an investigation in child abuse in comparable major institutions like the Catholic Church, ie inner circles in various Governments etc.

Slavery and the anal rape of young boys by the clergy (and cover ups/failures to report) are all horrific wrongs but legally they are very different things.

Slavery was always wrong but not always illegal. Even when slavers were still alive they could not be pursued for their earlier wrong doing. Legal or not they were certainly very bad men and nobody would advocate them as moral guides

The anal rape of young boys by the clergy, the  cover ups and failures to report were illegal actions. In that very important sense they are very different from early slavery. Obviously this illegality has to be prosecuted. Those alive should face the full force of the criminal law. The civil law will tackle the more institutional issues. Its only right and no moral person would frustrate or decry those processes

[lynchbhoy]

I doubt the systems and procedures and protection of humans in any organisation 50 years ago will not stand up to scrutiny when compared with modern day standards.Even the British Govt failed to guarantee basic civil rights for a substantial number of its citizens here for close on 60 years, but I see no witchhunt for this.

Other than the 30 years of war, yea no one was bothered about it. 

It went back a lot longer than 30 or 60 years lads!
You can prob start counting from the cromwellian or plantation times

[T Fearon]

LCohen there are plenty of perverts who masqueraded as clergy in jail,and rightly so.It's more about morality than legality.

[muppet]

LCohen there are plenty of perverts who masqueraded as clergy in jail,and rightly so.It's more about morality than legality.

It is about the cover-ups Tony. It has nothing to do with morality. Look at Sean Brady in particular to see that.

[LCohen]

LCohen there are plenty of perverts who masqueraded as clergy in jail,and rightly so.It's more about morality than legality.

Morality and legality are not mutually exclusive.

But I find no difficulty in your claim that morality trumps legality. I wholeheartedly agree. I would are argue that anybody who acted in morally reprehensive way can find no solace in that they they were merely following laws (criminal, civil or indeed canon). The logic you have most recently displayed must mean that you wholeheartedly agree. Can you confirm?

[T Fearon]

Depends on the motivation of those who took decisions.If they genuinely felt they could deal with the matter in house (which was a massive failure) then I wouldn't be too hard on them.Once again one must take account of the action /or lack of action that would have been taken/not taken by the statutory authorities,who moved a clergyman suspected of involvement in a fatal bombing quietly to a cross bored parish.

But hey let's expand morality beyond the Catholic Church in contemporary Ireland,let's look at the morality of people in government currently,North and South who were part of an organisation that meted out their own form of justice,without resorting to the statutory authorities,by means of,amongst other things,disappearing people.

[LCohen]

Depends on the motivation of those who took decisions.If they genuinely felt they could deal with the matter in house (which was a massive failure) then I wouldn't be too hard on them.Once again one must take account of the action /or lack of action that would have been taken/not taken by the statutory authorities,who moved a clergyman suspected of involvement in a fatal bombing quietly to a cross bored parish.

But hey let's expand morality beyond the Catholic Church in contemporary Ireland,let's look at the morality of people in government currently,North and South who were part of an organisation that meted out their own form of justice,without resorting to the statutory authorities,by means of,amongst other things,disappearing people.

Oh the lack of morality in other walks of life is there for all to see and moral judgements and criminal sanctions should apply to all. Nobody is or should be exempt. Those who purport to have either moral insight or indeed to be moral guides who infact behave in the most morally reprehensable manner will always attract direct criticism and seems fair and logical. 

No reporting an dangerous criminal is always wrong. Some concern that they report may not result in a proper inquiry is a nonsense. Minds convinced that reach that sort of reasoning have had their natural intelligence corrupted by some foreign and malignant force.

[T Fearon]

For what it's worth I believe that Smyth should have been reported to the Police in the mid 70s by the church or the parents of the victims (lets not forget they were aware of the abuse and their dereliction of duty was every but as bad as that of the church), but if the Church genuinely thought they could deal with the problem in house at the time,and the parents of the victims trusted the church in this respect,then I wouldn't be too hard on either the church of the time or the parents.

[LCohen]

All who abused children were wrong. Legally and morally.
All who knew of it and did nothing were wrong. Morally and from 1968 (in NI) legally
All who knew and did not report it to the legal authorities were wrong. Again both legally and from 1968 legally (in NI)
All who knew and took steps to frustrate legal inquiry (seeking to silence witnesses, failing to answer requests fro information etc) were morally and legally wrong (no need for a qualification re pre/post 1968)
All who frustrated retrospective inquiries were also legally and morally wrong.

All right thinking people will want guilty parties to face the legal and moral consequences of their acts of commission and omission with the appropriate civil/criminal sanction being implemented.

All right thinking people will make their own moral judgements about individuals and organisations who on a regular or indeed consistent basis made truly despicable decisions. The morality and moral authority of these individuals will be subject to logical appraisal and the conclusions reached will hopefully be evidence based.