Westminster Election 12th December 2019

[trailer]

The Tory campaign is well run and organised. Similar to the Leave.EU campaign. They're keeping Johnston out of the clutches of other leaders especially Sturgeon who would tear him another him. They are also keeping him away from the good interviewers, Neil, and others on Ch4. They've honed in on a few weaknesses in the Labour party policy and rammed it down the throats of the electorate. Brexit. Corbyn can't be trusted. Over and over and over again.

Labour on the other hand with their spending plans and wishy washy Brexit policy as well as Corbyn appear toxic.
Corbyn is a good man. Well meaning. But he has no charisma. And that is everything in this game. You have to be able to carry a crowd. I am no fan of Nigel Farage but their is no doubt that he has pushed the anti EU message in the UK for well over 20 years despite never having been elected to the HOC. He is box office and attracts a following. Corbyn attracts that studenty protesty type, grand people but not gonna get you elected. 

[smelmoth]

The Tory campaign is well run and organised. Similar to the Leave.EU campaign. They're keeping Johnston out of the clutches of other leaders especially Sturgeon who would tear him another him. They are also keeping him away from the good interviewers, Neil, and others on Ch4. They've honed in on a few weaknesses in the Labour party policy and rammed it down the throats of the electorate. Brexit. Corbyn can't be trusted. Over and over and over again.

Labour on the other hand with their spending plans and wishy washy Brexit policy as well as Corbyn appear toxic.
Corbyn is a good man. Well meaning. But he has no charisma. And that is everything in this game. You have to be able to carry a crowd. I am no fan of Nigel Farage but their is no doubt that he has pushed the anti EU message in the UK for well over 20 years despite never having been elected to the HOC. He is box office and attracts a following. Corbyn attracts that studenty protesty type, grand people but not gonna get you elected.

Tory campaign is well run. It is a national shame that the lies and cowardice are not being exposed. The failure of media scrutiny and the seeming ease with which they can evade it is likely to have ramifications beyond this election.

The toxicity of the Tory plans to basically sit back a do nothing about food banks, universal credit, the manifold aspects of the housing crisis and working conditions should be deeply concerning to anyone who cares about society. The failure to put anything forward on social care is as scary as anything in this election.

How would you describe LDs policy of revoke Article 50 without a second referendum? Can you see that working electorally or as a post election policy?
Are you happy with the Tory Brexit stance? Are you ok with no deal or do you think it is completely ruled out

[seafoid]

The Tory campaign is well run and organised. Similar to the Leave.EU campaign. They're keeping Johnston out of the clutches of other leaders especially Sturgeon who would tear him another him. They are also keeping him away from the good interviewers, Neil, and others on Ch4. They've honed in on a few weaknesses in the Labour party policy and rammed it down the throats of the electorate. Brexit. Corbyn can't be trusted. Over and over and over again.

Labour on the other hand with their spending plans and wishy washy Brexit policy as well as Corbyn appear toxic.
Corbyn is a good man. Well meaning. But he has no charisma. And that is everything in this game. You have to be able to carry a crowd. I am no fan of Nigel Farage but their is no doubt that he has pushed the anti EU message in the UK for well over 20 years despite never having been elected to the HOC. He is box office and attracts a following. Corbyn attracts that studenty protesty type, grand people but not gonna get you elected.

People like the editor of the Spectator and some of the FT columnists are wondering if the Tory strategy is enough. Johnson repeats "get Brexit done" over and over. During the time the yougov poll was in preparation the Tory lead contracted by almost 5%. Are the tories on top of things ?

[trailer]

I don't support the Tories. So pointing out stuff about food banks etc isn't what I am getting into. What I am saying very clearly is that they recognise their own weaknesses, basically the entire front bench is a liability and the less time they spend in front of the camera the better and their strengths, Johnston lacks any substance but can get a few soundbites, he can make people laugh and that with a bit of hard work and belief things will be fantastic.

Contrast this with the Labour campaign. Corbyn who is grey and dull as dishwater is rolled out all over the place and he has loads of substance but cannot engage. Their policies are delivered in such a monotone that people literally turn off.

Politics is theatre and the failure to recognise that is a serious shortcoming in labours policy. Sorry not policy but strategy. 

[smelmoth]

I don't support the Tories. So pointing out stuff about food banks etc isn't what I am getting into. What I am saying very clearly is that they recognise their own weaknesses, basically the entire front bench is a liability and the less time they spend in front of the camera the better and their strengths, Johnston lacks any substance but can get a few soundbites, he can make people laugh and that with a bit of hard work and belief things will be fantastic.

Contrast this with the Labour campaign. Corbyn who is grey and dull as dishwater is rolled out all over the place and he has loads of substance but cannot engage. Their policies are delivered in such a monotone that people literally turn off.

Politics is theatre and the failure to recognise that is a serious shortcoming in labours policy. Sorry not policy but strategy.

So parking delivery for a minute how would you judge the policies of Tories, Labour and LDs?

[maddog]

Politics is theatre and the failure to recognise that is a serious shortcoming in labours policy. Sorry not policy but strategy.

I suppose that partially explains why snake oil salesmen like Farage exist. No substance just vote for the biggest bullshitter. The electorate get the politicians they deserve in the end.

[johnnycool]

Politics is theatre and the failure to recognise that is a serious shortcoming in labours policy. Sorry not policy but strategy.

I suppose that partially explains why snake oil salesmen like Farage exist. No substance just vote for the biggest bullshitter. The electorate get the politicians they deserve in the end.

Trailer has a point though.

Keep the message simple and drive it home at every opportunity. Never worry about facts or details seems to be the way forward.
Easier done with a complicit media all the same.

The Tory lad on QT last night Brandon someone or other was pissed off at the end as Brexit wasn't really discussed and he'd his arse handed to him by all and sundry on the NHS.

Labour need to keep hammering on about the NHS and forget about Nationalisation, broadband and the likes. That can happen later when you're in power.

[maddog]

Politics is theatre and the failure to recognise that is a serious shortcoming in labours policy. Sorry not policy but strategy.

I suppose that partially explains why snake oil salesmen like Farage exist. No substance just vote for the biggest bullshitter. The electorate get the politicians they deserve in the end.

Trailer has a point though.

Keep the message simple and drive it home at every opportunity. Never worry about facts or details seems to be the way forward.
Easier done with a complicit media all the same.

The Tory lad on QT last night Brandon someone or other was pissed off at the end as Brexit wasn't really discussed and he'd his arse handed to him by all and sundry on the NHS.

Labour need to keep hammering on about the NHS and forget about Nationalisation, broadband and the likes. That can happen later when you're in power.

I know trailer has a good point. It is just disappointing that more people can't see through the bullshit. "get brexit done" "strong and stable" etc etc.

[seafoid]

Politics is theatre and the failure to recognise that is a serious shortcoming in labours policy. Sorry not policy but strategy.

The problem
I suppose that partially explains why snake oil salesmen like Farage exist. No substance just vote for the biggest bullshitter. The electorate get the politicians they deserve in the end.

There is a quote from H Mencken who called democracy « the art of giving the common people what they want, good and hard »

[maddog]

Attack on London Bridge this afternoon. One man shot on ground by looks of it after being disarmed but that is just initial impression. Will feature in the electioneering no doubt.

[maddog]

Politics is theatre and the failure to recognise that is a serious shortcoming in labours policy. Sorry not policy but strategy.

The problem
I suppose that partially explains why snake oil salesmen like Farage exist. No substance just vote for the biggest bullshitter. The electorate get the politicians they deserve in the end.

There is a quote from H Mencken who called democracy « the art of giving the common people what they want, good and hard »

If they return a Johnson majority that quote will be quite apt.

[seafoid]

Politics is theatre and the failure to recognise that is a serious shortcoming in labours policy. Sorry not policy but strategy.

The problem
I suppose that partially explains why snake oil salesmen like Farage exist. No substance just vote for the biggest bullshitter. The electorate get the politicians they deserve in the end.

There is a quote from H Mencken who called democracy « the art of giving the common people what they want, good and hard »

If they return a Johnson majority that quote will be quite apt.

That quote reminds me of Brexit

[smelmoth]

Politics is theatre and the failure to recognise that is a serious shortcoming in labours policy. Sorry not policy but strategy.

The problem
I suppose that partially explains why snake oil salesmen like Farage exist. No substance just vote for the biggest bullshitter. The electorate get the politicians they deserve in the end.

There is a quote from H Mencken who called democracy « the art of giving the common people what they want, good and hard »

Maybe not the best person to quote given the anti-semitism "debate" ongoing

[smelmoth]

Politics is theatre and the failure to recognise that is a serious shortcoming in labours policy. Sorry not policy but strategy.

I suppose that partially explains why snake oil salesmen like Farage exist. No substance just vote for the biggest bullshitter. The electorate get the politicians they deserve in the end.

Trailer has a point though.

Keep the message simple and drive it home at every opportunity. Never worry about facts or details seems to be the way forward.
Easier done with a complicit media all the same.

The Tory lad on QT last night Brandon someone or other was pissed off at the end as Brexit wasn't really discussed and he'd his arse handed to him by all and sundry on the NHS.

Labour need to keep hammering on about the NHS and forget about Nationalisation, broadband and the likes. That can happen later when you're in power.

I know trailer has a good point. It is just disappointing that more people can't see through the bullshit. "get brexit done" "strong and stable" etc etc.

If we start trying to out-Boris Boris or out-Trump Trump (maybe out-Donald the Donald would sound better) the world is bucked.

It is not inevitable that simplistic sloganeering and populism has to win. We don't have to engage in a race to the bottom. In the long term the arc always bends towards progress (to bastardise MLK's fine words)

[five points]

If we start trying to out-Boris Boris or out-Trump Trump (maybe out-Donald the Donald would sound better) the world is bucked.

It is not inevitable that simplistic sloganeering and populism has to win. We don't have to engage in a race to the bottom. In the long term the arc always bends towards progress (to bastardise MLK's fine words)

The most successful sloganeering populist of the past quarter century was Labour's Tony Blair. The arc certainly didn't bend towards progress in his time nor in the decade following. Trump for all his faults hasn't at least as yet started a huge war like Blair did and all indications are that neither he nor Boris have any inclination in doing so.