A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[sid waddell]

Hilariously, Franko, you're now adopting what are, in your own words "absolutely disgraceful" tactics

You're some laugh

It just proves that when you complained about the dead children jibe (which is true by the way, and applies to you just as much as Snapchap and Angelo) it was all a fraud on your part

Virtue signalling nonsense

You're only embarrassing yourself now

Nothing new there though

[Franko]

Hilariously, Franko, you're now adopting what are, in your own words "absolutely disgraceful" tactics

You're some laugh

It just proves that when you complained about the dead children jibe (which is true by the way, and applies to you just as much as Snapchap and Angelo) it was all a fraud on your part

Virtue signalling nonsense

You're only embarrassing yourself now

Nothing new there though

Nope, it's your line... just pointing it back at you.  Uncomfortable as it may be for you, you'll have to own it...

But we're getting distracted here...

1 or 2?

Which is it?

[trueblue1234]

Hilariously, Franko, you're now adopting what are, in your own words "absolutely disgraceful" tactics

You're some laugh

It just proves that when you complained about the dead children jibe (which is true by the way, and applies to you just as much as Snapchap and Angelo) it was all a fraud on your part

Virtue signalling nonsense

You're only embarrassing yourself now

Nothing new there though

I think you've been cornered Sid.

I expect some fairly substantial mental gymnastics to try and not answer this. 😂

[sid waddell]

Hilariously, Franko, you're now adopting what are, in your own words "absolutely disgraceful" tactics

You're some laugh

It just proves that when you complained about the dead children jibe (which is true by the way, and applies to you just as much as Snapchap and Angelo) it was all a fraud on your part

Virtue signalling nonsense

You're only embarrassing yourself now

Nothing new there though

Nope, it's your line... just pointing it back at you.  Uncomfortable as it may be for you, you'll have to own it...

But we're getting distracted here...

1 or 2?

Which is it?

There's nothing remotely uncomfortable here for me

I've never hidden I was a former SF supporter

I say this as somebody who voted no. 1 for Sinn Fein in 2011 and 2016

"The Fianna Gael bot"

Deary me

Never voted for a Fianna Fail or Fine Gael candidate in me life, never will

I voted number one for Sinn Fein at two successive general elections - 2011 and 2016 (Eoin O'Broin in Dublin Mid-West)

The difference between me and you is I decided to think deeply about what Sinn Fein actually are, and I'm no longer prepared to support the party

To Shinners like you, changing one's view is a sign of weakness

Renouncing support for SF is a betrayal, because to those on board, it's a cult

It's why people who leave Sinn Fein or the Republican movement get so vilified by them, up to and including murdering them

So to you, any new Sinn Fein supporters, and there are many, are weak because they changed their view to support the party

You complained about the line - and yet you're prepared to use it yourself

You were the one that complained about it, yet you are prepared to use it unironically, so you're the hypocrite

Good luck with your deprogramming

[Franko]

Hilariously, Franko, you're now adopting what are, in your own words "absolutely disgraceful" tactics

You're some laugh

It just proves that when you complained about the dead children jibe (which is true by the way, and applies to you just as much as Snapchap and Angelo) it was all a fraud on your part

Virtue signalling nonsense

You're only embarrassing yourself now

Nothing new there though

Nope, it's your line... just pointing it back at you.  Uncomfortable as it may be for you, you'll have to own it...

But we're getting distracted here...

1 or 2?

Which is it?

There's nothing remotely uncomfortable here for me

I've never hidden I was a former SF supporter

I say this as somebody who voted no. 1 for Sinn Fein in 2011 and 2016

"The Fianna Gael bot"

Deary me

Never voted for a Fianna Fail or Fine Gael candidate in me life, never will

I voted number one for Sinn Fein at two successive general elections - 2011 and 2016 (Eoin O'Broin in Dublin Mid-West)

The difference between me and you is I decided to think deeply about what Sinn Fein actually are, and I'm no longer prepared to support the party

To Shinners like you, changing one's view is a sign of weakness

Renouncing support for SF is a betrayal, because to those on board, it's a cult

It's why people who leave Sinn Fein or the Republican movement get so vilified by them, up to and including murdering them

So to you, any new Sinn Fein supporters, and there are many, are weak because they changed their view to support the party

You complained about the line - and yet you're prepared to use it yourself

You were the one that complained about it, yet you are prepared to use it unironically, so you're the hypocrite

Good luck with your deprogramming

So is it 1, or is it 2?

[sid waddell]

When I supported SF I deluded myself into believing the same lies and delusions you now believe, that the "movement" wasn't sectarian, that certain atrocities could be put to one side and that an argument could be maintained that the movement was essentially noble in it's overall aim, that it wasn't a murder machine but fighting for freedom

I came to realise those were lies and propaganda, that far from fighting for freedom, they were fighting for nothing except misery and societal destruction, that far from the rebel chic portrayal, the whole thing was utterly rotten

Plenty of other people came to realise that

The Sinn Fein leadership came to realise it themselves, but they cannot admit the truth, because to do would be to destroy the party

You aren't at that stage yet

You're still at the denial stage

As are several other posters

Angelo, for instance, believes the Garda Siochana were to blame for Omagh

Shinnerbots on this thread are utterly seething at how I've exposed the rotten ideology of SF/PIRA on multiple threads lately

So far from debating things they're unable to debate, they decide to fling something I've never hidden back at me - and delude themselves into thinking they've a point

It just showcases the intellectual bankruptcy of Shinnerbots

[Franko]

When I supported SF I deluded myself into believing the same lies and delusions you now believe, that the "movement" wasn't sectarian, that certain atrocities could be put to one side and that an argument could be maintained that the movement was essentially noble in it's overall aim, that it wasn't a murder machine but fighting for freedom

I came to realise those were lies and propaganda, that far from fighting for freedom, they were fighting for nothing except misery and societal destruction, that far from the rebel chic portrayal, the whole thing was utterly rotten

Plenty of other people came to realise that

The Sinn Fein leadership came to realise it themselves, but they cannot admit the truth, because to do would be to destroy the party

You aren't at that stage yet

You're still at the denial stage

As are several other posters

Angelo, for instance, believes the Garda Siochana were to blame for Omagh

Shinnerbots on this thread are utterly seething at how I've exposed the rotten ideology of SF/PIRA on multiple threads lately

So far from debating things they're unable to debate, they decide to fling something I've never hidden back at me - and delude themselves into thinking they've a point

It just showcases the intellectual bankruptcy of Shinnerbots

1 or 2 Sid?  Simple question.

[sid waddell]

But its you, by your own admission, Franko, who is "into dead children"

This is you saying that

[Franko]

But its you, by your own admission, Franko, who is "into dead children"

This is you saying that

I'd say nice try but that was pathetic.

Surely someone so principled and so certain in their views on this PARTICULAR topic could manage an answer?

The question couldn't be simpler.

So...once again I put it to you

Is it 1...

or is it 2?

[Milltown Row2]

Can we get an answer before I go to bed?

[sid waddell]

Read your own words back, Franko

You are a current SF supporter and in your own words, the words you previously classed as disgraceful but now admit are correct, being a current SF supporter involves being into dead children

You say this with the full knowledge of what it involves

You're actually boasting about it

[Milltown Row2]

Read your own words back, Franko

You are a current SF supporter and in your own words, the words you previously classed as disgraceful but now admit are correct, being a current SF supporter involves being into dead children

You say this with the full knowledge of what it involves

You're actually boasting about it

Ok, but did you at some point in the past support these deaths of children?

[Angelo]

Angelo, for instance, believes the Garda Siochana were to blame for Omagh

A Garda Siochana informant stole the car used in the Omagh bombing. He told his handlers about the car and that it was to be used in an imminent bombing.

It's disingenuous to say I blame the Gardai solely for Omagh but it is a fact they have to bear some responsibility. No Garda involved in failing yo act on the Omagh intel have ever faced any disciplinary action. I think one of them actually went on to climb the ranks.

Omagh is as seedy as it got for me. There was so much intel and information known about this bomb in advance it is absolutely remarkable it went ahead. I appreciate it could be raw for some here so I will leave my comments on it at that.

[Franko]

Read your own words back, Franko

You are a current SF supporter and in your own words, the words you previously classed as disgraceful but now admit are correct, being a current SF supporter involves being into dead children

You say this with the full knowledge of what it involves

You're actually boasting about it

So is it 1 or is it 2?

Easy peasy

[sid waddell]

Read your own words back, Franko

You are a current SF supporter and in your own words, the words you previously classed as disgraceful but now admit are correct, being a current SF supporter involves being into dead children

You say this with the full knowledge of what it involves

You're actually boasting about it

Ok, but did you at some point in the past support these deaths of children?

No

But I was willing to partially overlook it against my better judgment

Because I was willing to believe what I later came to realise was essentially propaganda - that the movement as a whole was essentially fighting for freedom

It wasn't

Others here now openly embrace that propaganda