A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[clonadmad]

Theres more foreign born people living on the island of Ireland than Unionists

Thats the reality

I know a lot of the northern cohort on here suffer from stockholm syndrome and want to give a lot more than what their actual numbers suggest

Are we really going to have 800k out of a 6m population expecting near paruty when it comes to the panaphenalia of the new state?

If there's a UI in the morning, unionists aren't just going to shrug and say "oh alright then". We will likely see another troubles period. Loyalists were armed and ready to fight 100+ years ago if there was a 32 county republic. I'd expect to see similar in the event of a successful border poll. Does anyone want to go back to that? So maybe a few concessions here and there might be something that will be needed to sweeten the deal. But I doubt even that will work.

But if you want your UI, expect trouble. And a lot of it, for maybe a long time. If you think loyalists won't kick up a stir, you're seriously naive.

Do you really think a few sweetners is going to stop them causing the havoc that you think they will?.

if any UI is going to take place there will have to be co sponsorship of it by the british,the americans and the EU.

Im really interested to know who will be supplying the weaponry in that case.

No it won't. But sweeteners will be proffered.

I don't think it'll matter who sponsors this UI. Unionists won't want to know.

Theres a big difference between Unionists not wanting to know and  your earlier claim of loyalists creating trouble,a lot of it

Im interested to hear how loyalists would be able to lay hands on weapons to cause any level of trouble given the british would be co-guarantors of any UI agreement.

Dont forget the Irish government cracked down fairly hard on Republicans and the IRA since the foundation of the state when they threatened the existence of the state.

[BennyCake]

Theres more foreign born people living on the island of Ireland than Unionists

Thats the reality

I know a lot of the northern cohort on here suffer from stockholm syndrome and want to give a lot more than what their actual numbers suggest

Are we really going to have 800k out of a 6m population expecting near paruty when it comes to the panaphenalia of the new state?

If there's a UI in the morning, unionists aren't just going to shrug and say "oh alright then". We will likely see another troubles period. Loyalists were armed and ready to fight 100+ years ago if there was a 32 county republic. I'd expect to see similar in the event of a successful border poll. Does anyone want to go back to that? So maybe a few concessions here and there might be something that will be needed to sweeten the deal. But I doubt even that will work.

But if you want your UI, expect trouble. And a lot of it, for maybe a long time. If you think loyalists won't kick up a stir, you're seriously naive.

Do you really think a few sweetners is going to stop them causing the havoc that you think they will?.

if any UI is going to take place there will have to be co sponsorship of it by the british,the americans and the EU.

Im really interested to know who will be supplying the weaponry in that case.

No it won't. But sweeteners will be proffered.

I don't think it'll matter who sponsors this UI. Unionists won't want to know.

Theres a big difference between Unionists not wanting to know and  your earlier claim of loyalists creating trouble,a lot of it

Im interested to hear how loyalists would be able to lay hands on weapons to cause any level of trouble given the british would be co-guarantors of any UI agreement.

Dont forget the Irish government cracked down fairly hard on Republicans and the IRA since the foundation of the state when they threatened the existence of the state.

There can still be trouble without arms.

But I suppose you're right. Sure they'd have to pay extra duty on any German arms coming in, what with this new Irish Sea border

[Rossfan]

I take it Bennycake will be another "nationalist" voting to remain in the United Kingdom of Southern Britain and Northern Ireland"

[general_lee]

The South African arms smuggled in by UVF, UDA and Ulster Resistance was split 3 ways - UDA got caught in transit, UVF presumably decommissioned most of theirs - Ulster Resistance batch never recovered

[Angelo]

Theres more foreign born people living on the island of Ireland than Unionists

Thats the reality

I know a lot of the northern cohort on here suffer from stockholm syndrome and want to give a lot more than what their actual numbers suggest

Are we really going to have 800k out of a 6m population expecting near paruty when it comes to the panaphenalia of the new state?

If there's a UI in the morning, unionists aren't just going to shrug and say "oh alright then". We will likely see another troubles period. Loyalists were armed and ready to fight 100+ years ago if there was a 32 county republic. I'd expect to see similar in the event of a successful border poll. Does anyone want to go back to that? So maybe a few concessions here and there might be something that will be needed to sweeten the deal. But I doubt even that will work.

But if you want your UI, expect trouble. And a lot of it, for maybe a long time. If you think loyalists won't kick up a stir, you're seriously naive.

Do you really think a few sweetners is going to stop them causing the havoc that you think they will?.

if any UI is going to take place there will have to be co sponsorship of it by the british,the americans and the EU.

Im really interested to know who will be supplying the weaponry in that case.

That's the crux of it. Hardline unionists have been backed up by British government promoting the union. If the UK promote an all island solution, which logically they should, the unionists will have to hope that any solution secured their sense of Britishness . The union is gone , timeframe , uk financial severance package and  constitutional agreement are the only things up for debate

The current Brexit situation where NI is treated differently, with the Irish Sea border has pissed off unionists. They feel cut off, their sense of Britishness and attachment to the union feels threatened. You really think a guarantee of a British passport/identity in a new UI will make them happy? No chance.

There may be some sporadic violence from Loyalists but I dont think it will be much more than the dissents republicans are currently at. Previous loyalists had the backing of RUC, MI5 and British army, without that support I think it will easily contained and squashed.

This is it.

Loyalists did what they did last time around because they knew they were protected and untouchable.

It's a bit like when they had their hungers strikes for prisoner rights and the screws were coming in and finding Mars bars under their pillows etc.

They will cause bother but loyalism was basically screaming and shouting until they got what they wanted without any severe repercussions - that day is sadly coming to an end for them.

[red hander]

The South African arms smuggled in by UVF, UDA and Ulster Resistance was split 3 ways - UDA got caught in transit, UVF presumably decommissioned most of theirs - Ulster Resistance batch never recovered

You mean DUP batch never recovered. They were up to their necks in it, f**king sc**bag hypocrites. Loyalists will acrobat and Irish people will be murdered, but they won't have help of Brit Establishment any more, who want rid of the scum. They will be dealt with, don't worry about that.

[Angelo]

The South African arms smuggled in by UVF, UDA and Ulster Resistance was split 3 ways - UDA got caught in transit, UVF presumably decommissioned most of theirs - Ulster Resistance batch never recovered

You mean DUP batch never recovered. They were up to their necks in it, f**king sc**bag hypocrites. Loyalists will acrobat and Irish people will be murdered, but they won't have help of Brit Establishment any more, who want rid of the scum. They will be dealt with, don't worry about that.

That's where things have changed, will a loyalist be willing to do a 20 year stretch for killing a taig? I doubt it. This time round they are probably just likely to shout and moan and hurl a few bricks at the RUC. The days of them having immunity from the state to go around and kill Catholic civilians are gone though and that's when we find that loyalism generally stands for very little.

The political spectrum of loyalism was always the worst, while the likes of your Billy Wrights and Michael Stones were psychopaths who took life at it they were only the tip of the iceberg when it came to the evils of loyalism and unionism. Your Paisleys and William Craigs were up there with Hitler when it came to pure evil, they whipped up sectarian hatred and encouraged these psychopaths to go out and do what they did and then wiped their hands off it when the atrocities happened.

[weareros]

Just a lot of money will have to be thrown at it. You'll get the "we won't be bought for your dirty pieces of silver... keep your Fenian blood money..." But if the UK subventions is now 14 billion pounds per annum, Dublin, Brussels with help from US will have to come up with a number that blows it out of the water, double it, and guarantee it for 20 years. Kill the we can't afford it argument at the start.
Then a few other things: in 100 years they have not managed to build one decent stadia. Disband the FAI, make Belfast and IFA the home of Irish soccer, and build a stadium there to be proud off. Tap our billionaires, many who need to redeem themselves anyway. Dublin won't like it but will have to be done.
Build the museum to Ulster sports stars the committee couldn't afford themselves - besides we all love Best, Higgins, Willie John McBride
Make a huge investment in Ulster-Scots culture - put writers of the education syllabus, champion the music - as much as they think their culture will die in a United Ireland, do a Douglas Hyde on it, like he did with Irish language, and elevate the best of the culture, something that never happened in UK.
I'm sure there's much more but money, culture, sport always a good bet.

[BennyCake]

I take it Bennycake will be another "nationalist" voting to remain in the United Kingdom of Southern Britain and Northern Ireland"

And what makes you say that?

[BennyCake]

The South African arms smuggled in by UVF, UDA and Ulster Resistance was split 3 ways - UDA got caught in transit, UVF presumably decommissioned most of theirs - Ulster Resistance batch never recovered

You mean DUP batch never recovered. They were up to their necks in it, f**king sc**bag hypocrites. Loyalists will acrobat and Irish people will be murdered, but they won't have help of Brit Establishment any more, who want rid of the scum. They will be dealt with, don't worry about that.

That's where things have changed, will a loyalist be willing to do a 20 year stretch for killing a taig? I doubt it. This time round they are probably just likely to shout and moan and hurl a few bricks at the RUC. The days of them having immunity from the state to go around and kill Catholic civilians are gone though and that's when we find that loyalism generally stands for very little.

The political spectrum of loyalism was always the worst, while the likes of your Billy Wrights and Michael Stones were psychopaths who took life at it they were only the tip of the iceberg when it came to the evils of loyalism and unionism. Your Paisleys and William Craigs were up there with Hitler when it came to pure evil, they whipped up sectarian hatred and encouraged these psychopaths to go out and do what they did and then wiped their hands off it when the atrocities happened.

I get that the Btitish government and security forces wouldn't be assisting loyalists, and Paisley/Carson etc are dead and gone, but there's other headers who will whip up support and stoke the sectarian fires. Paisley did it, Drumcree had them, fleg protests had them. It might not amount to the carnage of the troubles, but enough to cause civil unrest a la the workers strikes in the 70's or the numbers out in force all over the north during Drumcree. The likes of Jamie Bryson might not get the numbers to get elected but he'd gather enough supporters  to do serious damage and cause enough trouble to linger for years.

[red hander]

Do you think the authorities, if Shinners are in a position of power, whether in full control of in a majority position, will let these scum dictate future, it's not going to happen. They will be wiped out, finally. And people from unionist community who want to participate in true democracy will have that, where they have big say in new Ireland, where they won't be treated way they treated Irish people under their apartheid statlet.

[pbat]

After listening to Tommy Gorman it made me think if Paisley was still alive he would have laid unionists into a united Ireland. As much as I despised the p***k he was a pragmatist and would have secured himself a comfortable place in A new Ireland. 

[restorepride]

After listening to Tommy Gorman it made me think if Paisley was still alive he would have laid unionists into a united Ireland. As much as I despised the p***k he was a pragmatist and would have secured himself a comfortable place in A new Ireland.

Doubt it very much.  Will the DUP totally condemn the recent threat to Leo?  That he will hang from a tree, KKK style. The drum is already beating again, with Ian Óg at it full tilt.

[LeoMc]

Do you think the authorities, if Shinners are in a position of power, whether in full control of in a majority position, will let these scum dictate future, it's not going to happen. They will be wiped out, finally. And people from unionist community who want to participate in true democracy will have that, where they have big say in new Ireland, where they won't be treated way they treated Irish people under their apartheid statlet.

Are you advocating a bit of ethnic cleansing?
Why not try a bit of shoot to kill and internment to see if that teaches them to keep their head down and know their place?

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Do you think the authorities, if Shinners are in a position of power, whether in full control of in a majority position, will let these scum dictate future, it's not going to happen. They will be wiped out, finally. And people from unionist community who want to participate in true democracy will have that, where they have big say in new Ireland, where they won't be treated way they treated Irish people under their apartheid statlet.

Are you advocating a bit of ethnic cleansing?
Why not try a bit of shoot to kill and internment to see if that teaches them to keep their head down and know their place?

Yeah that kind of language is a disgrace and a glimpse maybe for unionists of what they fear. Remove it please